Completely OT but did you see this?

[brymolmom]

Anyone catch this store on INSIDE EDITION last night? I don't usually watch that - but it was on while I was on the treadmill at the gym and I got so angry. The whole story kept saying 'kicked off a flight for child having a tantrum' and they interviewed the mom and grandma. The thing that bothered me most - not ONCE in the whole story was it mentioned that the actual reason they were kicked off was because the child was not secured in a seat with belt on - NOT because she was having the tantrum. UGH - of course people watching that show would totally be angry at the airline, but legally - they're not allowed to take off with a ticketed passenger not in their seat with belt on - really - what else were they supposed to do??

Just goes to show the media can give it whatever slant that they want to.

 

[tjmw2727]

Anyone catch this store on INSIDE EDITION last night? I don't usually watch that - but it was on while I was on the treadmill at the gym and I got so angry. The whole story kept saying 'kicked off a flight for child having a tantrum' and they interviewed the mom and grandma. The thing that bothered me most - not ONCE in the whole story was it mentioned that the actual reason they were kicked off was because the child was not secured in a seat with belt on - NOT because she was having the tantrum. UGH - of course people watching that show would totally be angry at the airline, but legally - they're not allowed to take off with a ticketed passenger not in their seat with belt on - really - what else were they supposed to do??

Just goes to show the media can give it whatever slant that they want to.

Right - the child was not removed from the flight for having a tantrum. The family was asked to take a later flight because they refused to put the 3yo in a seat and buckle her. They had already delayed the flight by at least 15 minutes and by the parents own admission they wanted more time to talk her into taking her seat. Anyone with a tempering toddler knows you can't talk them into anything!!

So everyone on the flight was seated, the seat belt light was on, the luggage was stowed and the FA's were preparing to do the safety speil. The toddler is still on the floor, screaming, biting and kicking the parents while they try and convince her to take her seat.

After seeing the parents on GMA yesterday I think airtran did the right thing. They show no concern for the other passengers on the flight, the possible missed connections or delays to others in other airports that day.

I have all the sympathy for families flying with children - BTDT, but these parents didn't evoke much sypathy from me, sorry

TJ

 

[Stimpy]

Anyone catch this store on INSIDE EDITION last night? I don't usually watch that - but it was on while I was on the treadmill at the gym and I got so angry. The whole story kept saying 'kicked off a flight for child having a tantrum' and they interviewed the mom and grandma. The thing that bothered me most - not ONCE in the whole story was it mentioned that the actual reason they were kicked off was because the child was not secured in a seat with belt on - NOT because she was having the tantrum. UGH - of course people watching that show would totally be angry at the airline, but legally - they're not allowed to take off with a ticketed passenger not in their seat with belt on - really - what else were they supposed to do??

Just goes to show the media can give it whatever slant that they want to.

I didn't see the show but I do agree with you...everywhere I've seen this mentioned says that they were kicked off because the child was distruptive, nothing about safety and regulations and let's face it costs too. AirTran would lose alot of money and other customers with more delays. 100 people vs 2 parents and an uncontrollable child...hmmmm?

As I said before, we had a 2 1/2 hour flight with DD when she was 2 that was a nightmare! People were literally saying they wanted to throw her off the plane! By the time we finally landed, I was in tears too. The flight crew (on SW, not ATA) went above and beyond to try and help me. I think one of the differences though was that she was strapped into her carseat the entire time. She actually was fine getting on the plane, it was once the plane got in the sky we had problems. She had her own seat that we purchased. But I refused to take her out of the seat since I knew I could never get her back in for landing. (Technically, I could have held her since she was under the age for having her own seat. But I am a firm believer that children should be in their car seat on airplanes from the beginning since it's for their safety especially since this flight was also turbulent.)

I did feel for the parents a bit, although they are starting to lose that too. I think many of us have been through similar events when no matter how much you try, you can not calm down a child. Blaming the airline entirely for this is a little too much.

BTW, we also have the CARES (the restraint I think was referred to earlier) and it is the best invention! We used it last flight and my DD...same terror from the flight before... was great! She was safe, comfortable & happy, we were more relaxed and people on this flight even comented on how well behaved our kids were.

 

[aes74]

There's a very long thread about this on the Community Board, BTW...

I bet there is

 

[bzzymom]

I can imagine how this mom felt. I have had difficulties with children on the plane. They can struggle and fight with you, and with everyone staring at you, you feel powerless. If you spank your child, someone will surely turn you in for "child abuse". There is no easy fix for the situation. I would not blame the parent for this unless they weren't even trying to calm the child.

 

[aes74]

Right - the child was not removed from the flight for having a tantrum. The family was asked to take a later flight because they refused to put the 3yo in a seat and buckle her. They had already delayed the flight by at least 15 minutes and by the parents own admission they wanted more time to talk her into taking her seat. Anyone with a tempering toddler knows you can't talk them into anything!!

So everyone on the flight was seated, the seat belt light was on, the luggage was stowed and the FA's were preparing to do the safety speil. The toddler is still on the floor, screaming, biting and kicking the parents while they try and convince her to take her seat.

After seeing the parents on GMA yesterday I think airtran did the right thing. They show no concern for the other passengers on the flight, the possible missed connections or delays to others in other airports that day.

I have all the sympathy for families flying with children - BTDT, but these parents didn't evoke much sypathy from me, sorry

TJ

I have to agree with you on this one. I think the parents did more harm than good. A three year old, barring any developmental disablilities, is old enough to know that it is not okay. There are certain things that are not a choice, and wearing your seatbelt is one of them. I think I would have asked for a minute alone with the child in a bathroom. Not to beat the stew out of her, but to have a quiet space where I can ook her in the eyes and directly let her know the rule and the consequence. And as others have said, I too have been there with a kid who is not making things easy. I try to pack ahead with snacks/toys, prepare them ahead of time by telling them exactly what is going to happen on the airplane, etc.

When I am on a plane, I am very sympathetic to parents who I can see are doing the very best they can, doing everything they can to help their child pull it together. I will even say to a mom traveling alone, "Is there anything I can do to help you?" because heaven knows, I've been there. We have all had that crying baby we are desperate to calm down. And the embarrassment in front of everyone doesn't help. It's public transportation, and a perfect peaceful flight from children and adults is not guaranteed. But I do lose my patience with parents who let their child do whatever to anyone around them, you know, the ones who think their kids are cute no matter what they do. I love my children dearly and unconditionally, but I have no illusions that they are adorable if they are acting like brats. I nip that in the bud to the best of my ability and try to teach them to be aware of others around them.

I think the parents are really to blame here, and I am sorry the media has given them a forum to unfairly tell a different story.

 

[KariC]

Spoke with my mom this morning on this topic. She was a flight attendant until a couple of years ago, on planes approx. the same size as ATA. A 15 minute delay, at that time, would have cost the airline approx. $100,000. That's just accounting for delaying flights for the rest of the day (not helping passengers that miss connections ALL DAY because of a delay of an unruly passenger that was on an arriving plane). Giving this family an alternate flight and extra tickets is cheap compared to that! However, I think it's "poopy" that they gave them extra tickets. My kids are well behaved on flights (so far), I'd like free tickets as a reward! Like that's going to happen

By the way, I've used this as a teaching example with my twins for our upcoming trip. My son actually asked, "did the little girl go to jail?" I told him no, but if she were a grown up she would have been arrested. DS is now telling his sister how they'll need to sit down with their seat belt on (hello, just like in the car!) unless they have to go potty. Why did I tell him they have potties on the plane.....now we'll have to check them out at least once in our one and half hour flight.

I'd be so embarrassed if I couldn't get control of my child...I'd NEVER go on TV to admit it!

 

[DisneyPhD]

My kids are well behaved on flights (so far), I'd like free tickets as a reward! Like that's going to happen

By the way, I've used this as a teaching example with my twins for our upcoming trip. My son actually asked, "did the little girl go to jail?" I told him no, but if she were a grown up she would have been arrested. DS is now telling his sister how they'll need to sit down with their seat belt on (hello, just like in the car!) unless they have to go potty. Why did I tell him they have potties on the plane.....now we'll have to check them out at least once in our one and half hour flight.

I'd be so embarrassed if I couldn't get control of my child...I'd NEVER go on TV to admit it!

I have to agree with you on every count there. Like I said before it was the ultimate time out and it was the right thing for the airline to do. I am just guessing here, but I am pretty sure this is not the 1st time ever this happened. Just the 1st time the parents went to the media with it. Really they are just making themselves look bad. I hate to think what that little girl is going to grow up to be like with such a sense of entitlement.

My girls are normally very good on flights, but it is good for kids to know, if you don't behave you don't get to fly. This isn't just mom and dad's rules, this is for everyone. Last flight my 2 year old talked the women's next to me ears off, but she didn't seem to mind too much.

 

[DISNEYFOS]

I personally agree with everyone that Airtran was in the right to remove this family if the child was unable to be in her seat for take off. I don' t think they should of received a refund or free flight..thats ridiculous.

Reading this story I do wonder how close we came to getting kicked off last flight on AA . As soon as we were getting ready to get on the plane to head home from WDW..my DD (3) (potty trained) started with horrible Diarrhea. As we were getting seating, she started crying she needed to go to the bathroom...I took her at least 5 times while everyone was getting seated. She was back in her seat and they were pushing away from the gate starting the safety video and she starts crying again. I asked the flight attendant if we can go again..They were annoyed...Apparently due to regulations that would have to restart the saftety video. I'm sure I annoyed other passengers but it was either that or have a huge mess., there was no way she could wait. I had no pull ups ...she had been completely trained for almost a year. Luckily she seemed okay after the last trip to the bathroom and fell asleep for the rest of the flight.


So anyways thats my story. Kids can be disruptive and might not understand rules..but thats what parents are for

 

[DisneyPhD]

Ugh, being a parent isn't easy it???? That was really out of yours and your Childs control. I think the other passengers given the choice would think you did the right thing.

Why do bathroom issues happen at the most inconvenient times?

 

[disneymomof6]

woulda been a good time for super nanny to pop up from a seat....

Its typical to see parents out there acting surprised when their children behave a certain way and act like they dont understand it when in all reality it comes down to parenting. I have 6 kids and I, by all means, dont think they are perfect without faults, but I can predict how they will behave under certain situations and without fail have always been dead on.

in 2003 I was flying to CA and sitting in the two seats next to me was a 4 year old boy and his mother... the boy was in the middle seat between us... that little boy would pick his nose and wipe it on me.... He would chew gum and stick it on things.... he was drinking soda and then letting it run down his chin laughing the entire time... mom would look at me and roll her eyes like she couldnt understand why on earth he would behave that way.... I sat with my body pressed as far against the window as I could.... gritting my teeth wanting to just stand up and smack the mother across the head... when we landed... 3 hrs later.... she said sorry, she wished her husband was with because she just knew he would be a pill on the flight.... UM DUH!!! Kids dont just fall out of their true skin when boarding a plane... im sure its the same deal when they are in cars and wherever else.... Parent ought to be embarrassed so maybe they realize there are changes that need to be done in their parenting....

The poster that said her child had potty problems... YIKES... that would suck but it did make me think that when I take my kids in flight in 15 days im taking pull ups for my 3 year old. Thanks for the story!!

AND By the way... what parent allows their child to get in the habit of slapping and kicking them?

 

[NotUrsula]

By the way, I've used this as a teaching example with my twins for our upcoming trip. My son actually asked, "did the little girl go to jail?"

My 9 yo saw it and said, "But Mom, everybody knows that the plane can't leave the gate until everyone is belted in! What kind of dummy grownup doesn't know that?"

He's a well-traveled kid with thousands of airmiles under his belt, and he's been able to recite the whole FA safety speech since before he was the age of the child in this story. He thought it was utterly bizarre that the child's parents didn't make her buckle up.

 

[mercydisney]

I saw the other thread, too long to read.

I think the airline was right.

I do feel for the family, but still, I feel for the other people on the flight who had places to go.

This is why I always travel with suckers, a pacifier (if she is using it.) treats, food, and other brides and distractions. I also have possible meds for pain and congestion. Stickers, crayons, the list goes on.

Also a 3 year old is old enough to understand consequences. If you don't clam down, we don't get to ride on the airplane. The ultimate time out.

If the child was under 2 I think I might have a different opinion. Of course if that was the case with me I would of just popped her on the old ****.

Very well said!!!

I have 2 girls and I spoil them, I'm the first one to admit it.. But they understand consequences.. At the age of 2 my DD11 knew she would get in A LOT OF TROUBLE JUST BY ONE LOOK. DD6 well she is a different story she would of needed a popped****.

 

[Not so Dumbo]

Has anyone had the expierence of trying to parent a child who doesn't care about the consequences? I'm just saying that there's only so much a parent can do if their child doesn't care about being punished. A parent can spank, threaten, time out, take items away, or even offer to give rewards if the child will cooperate but if the child doesn't care about any of this, what's a parent supposed to do? I just think it's becoming way too easy to judge other parents when we're not in their shoes.

 

[mercydisney]

I personally agree with everyone that Airtran was in the right to remove this family if the child was unable to be in her seat for take off. I don' t think they should of received a refund or free flight..thats ridiculous.

Reading this story I do wonder how close we came to getting kicked off last flight on AA . As soon as we were getting ready to get on the plane to head home from WDW..my DD (3) (potty trained) started with horrible Diarrhea. As we were getting seating, she started crying she needed to go to the bathroom...I took her at least 5 times while everyone was getting seated. She was back in her seat and they were pushing away from the gate starting the safety video and she starts crying again. I asked the flight attendant if we can go again..They were annoyed...Apparently due to regulations that would have to restart the saftety video. I'm sure I annoyed other passengers but it was either that or have a huge mess., there was no way she could wait. I had no pull ups ...she had been completely trained for almost a year. Luckily she seemed okay after the last trip to the bathroom and fell asleep for the rest of the flight.


So anyways thats my story. Kids can be disruptive and might not understand rules..but thats what parents are for

your child had a medical issue, The child on the plane was having a tantrum issue. I think if the family would of been thrown off, because the child had potty issues, we as a whole, on this board, would of boycotted the airline.

 

[MiniGirl]

Former flight attendant here....

The only thing the airline did that was wrong was offering them a free ticket. What a slap in the face from the management of this airline to the crew that works so hard every day!!! I guess it would've been better for the flight attendants and pilots to put their jobs (and their family's livelihood) and all the other passenger's safety and comfort on the line by ignoring FAA regulations for this little princess and her family.

Sorry, I know I sound bitter, but the airline I worked for once sent a free pass to a passenger along with their apologies because I cut him off (wouldn't serve him anymore alcohol). I felt he was becoming too loud and verbally abusive to the flight attendants and other passengers. Thanks for sticking up for me.

 

[DisneyPhD]

Has anyone had the expierence of trying to parent a child who doesn't care about the consequences? I'm just saying that there's only so much a parent can do if their child doesn't care about being punished. A parent can spank, threaten, time out, take items away, or even offer to give rewards if the child will cooperate but if the child doesn't care about any of this, what's a parent supposed to do? I just think it's becoming way too easy to judge other parents when we're not in their shoes.

Well, getting kicked off the airlines is a consequences I would care about.

Also, there is no way I would travel on an airplane with a child like that. Not unless there was no other way. If it was just vacation, I wouldn't be taking a child on vacation that I couldn't control (or at least felt pretty confident I could.) We travel a lot with my kids, but they are pretty well behaved. If they were not, there is no way they would be going to WDW as many times as they have. They know this too.

Last time at WDW when I asked a child not to continue to kick the stroller where my DD's were sleeping in, I got a "well if you can control him" comment. That really bugged me. If you can't, don't bring him out late at night.

If a child doesn't care about consequences, you might be using the wrong ones. Do they care about rewards?

 

[NotUrsula]

Has anyone had the experience of trying to parent a child who doesn't care about the consequences? I'm just saying that there's only so much a parent can do if their child doesn't care about being punished. A parent can spank, threaten, time out, take items away, or even offer to give rewards if the child will cooperate but if the child doesn't care about any of this, what's a parent supposed to do? I just think it's becoming way too easy to judge other parents when we're not in their shoes.

Sure, that's a very hard thing, and I believe that most of us have empathy in those situations, but that isn't the case in THIS situation. This was a barely 3 yo, and the action called for was physical restraint.

No matter how much your child might not like it and fight back, an able adult with a miniumum 80 lb. weight advantage can restrain a child this size. There were 2 parents and only one child. The only answer for why those adults felt it was impossible to wrestle her into her seat was that they didn't have the gumption to do it. No parent *likes* having to wrestle a child physically in order to restrain him, but all GOOD parents will grit their teeth and do it when it is really necessary.

 

[mercydisney]

I wonder? After the family was thrown off the plane, did this child face a consequence or was it the "airlines fault they were thrown off the plane?

 

[Not so Dumbo]

Sure, that's a very hard thing, and I believe that most of us have empathy in those situations, but that isn't the case in THIS situation. This was a barely 3 yo, and the action called for was physical restraint.

No matter how much your child might not like it and fight back, an able adult with a miniumum 80 lb. weight advantage can restrain a child this size. There were 2 parents and only one child. The only answer for why those adults felt it was impossible to wrestle her into her seat was that they didn't have the gumption to do it. No parent *likes* having to wrestle a child physically in order to restrain him, but all GOOD parents will grit their teeth and do it when it is really necessary.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I agree that the child should have been physically put into her seat, but what about after this? Nobody could make her stop throwing her tempertantrum( kicking, crying , screaming) I'm assuming that this is the other half of the reason why the airline asked them to leave the plane.

I'm just trying to point out that there are children out there that are hard to control, even if their parents try everything in their power and we can say well, I would or wouldn't have done this, but unless you've expierenced dealing with a child like this it's all a little bit hypothetical. Some children don't even care if their WDW trip is being threated or they are being kicked off a plane. They just say so what. This type of child affects the entire family. Are the siblings of this child supposed to be punished also by having their vacations cancelled because their sis/bro can't be controlled? They didn't do anything wrong. If the parents are trying their best to control their kid, I say cut them a brake.