Comcast CEO: Universal will compete aggressively with Disney

[lockedoutlogic]

Yellowstonetim just hit it out of the park with that one!

We all know what Disney's attendance numbers are...
If you want to be smarty pants about it..go back and look at the growth in numbers since 1999 (first full year of animal kingdom... The only fair benchmark)

Do the math and notice that attendance increase has slowed or stagnated on the whole. These parks aren't full... That's the problem - how to get them to rise.

If we accept that magic kingdom is fine...as we most could agree...and is at 17.5 million... Then we should wonder what would be a reasonable goal for the other based on size, investment, and operational cost IF the would be run properly with proper investment and innovation.

Here's my reasonable list:
MK: 17 mil
EPCOT/AK: 13-15
MGM: 10-12 mil

That is based on size and potential... And it just so happens that the two (my view) underperforming on that list have been the victim of fairly obvious mismanagement over the last 15 years.

That...for "Koolaid" drinkers like me...is the problem within even their large numbers. That complex is not being run as intelligently as it needs and can be... And this universal talk (and it is mostly that at this point)... Could catch on as time goes on and experience real burnoff...

And as my esteemed fellow poster above has stated with a wonderful example... Longterm loyalty is not regained and nobody is immune.
GM, ford and Chrysler didnt worry about VW much in the 60s or Honda in the 70s.. Or Hyundai in the 90's.
Without a government bailout two of three would be gone. No question sold off and rebranded if not mothballed. It takes time but once momentum builds it is like stopping an avalanche or a hurricane...you just end up dead.

Anyone notice Microsoft these days? It's "ok"...in 1995 bill gates could have popped Steve jobs like a zit. He didnt...what's worth more now?

In 1984 Disney was over leveraged and stagnant. So why are their parks untouchable?
I agree that right now it's not much a threat...but why mess with it? Why invite it?

The reality is that if the Disneyland local market hadnt effectively pulled a consumer coup at California adventure (wdw customers have not even considered doing...but should)...that retrofit doesn't happen. They would have gotten the "animal kingdom" treatment...a thing here or there every five years as long as lag is within sight of the "good parks". MGM has always been overattended...nothing there justifys the crowd.

And conveniently...during the period where they have wasted time on Chinese parks (15 years now)...which aren't on the sweetheart "you build- we pay" deals that the Japanese parks were.

They are making more money because they are using their brand and symbols - few in pop culture have as much value - to systematically charge more every year for every single thing. But that's capital they shouldn't expend... Charging 100% inflation every ten years (don't test that...it's true) because there's a mouse head on the damn band. I'm serious here... Go book your fastpass +...it's honestly laughable and they put it in our face by choice.

My father in law bought a 10 day no expiration, water park hopper from AAA today for $760...I bought a 5 day one from the Disney store (no discount) in nov 2004 for $211 with tax.

More profit is an "ends justifies the means" classic excuse. It doesn't make Disney right in this case... Just greedy.

And Iger, Staggs, Rasulo will be long gone in 10 years...you can't honestly think they're worried about 50, do you? If bad direction by late Eisner/Iger knocks the pilings out from under the house in 20 years...you and I will be left to weep and wonder.

Real Disney fans (and I am one) should want them to give me a $0.75 investment back for every $1.00 I spend. No company ever goes out of business with a 25% margin. That's what you want...but that is not what you're getting...Chinese parks for trade deals and magic bands to reduce workers and wages. And besides... That crap in walmart and every Disney giftshop is on an 80% margin anyway.

 

[mvk]

Apples to grapefruit: you are comparing someone with a critical perpsective to a bunch of Disney cheerleaders. Go read the posts on Micechat and you will see I am by no means a sole voice. Here's an example:

"We all saw this coming a million miles away. You can not add significant value to a theme park by building a better way to squeeze money out of your guests. At least build some rides before you shake them upside down to see what’s in their pockets.

Ideally, MyMagic+ should have rolled out with a massive expansion like Star Wars Land instead of pretending to be its own draw (which it will never be on its own).

The sad news here is that instead of rapidly redirecting his attention to other projects and firing everyone involved with the MyMagic+ decision, Iger is instead canceling the thing that will really drive revenue and increased attendance (new attractions) so they can pump even more money into MyMagic+. My hope is that he will get over his anger and sort out the priorities logically. You can’t grow a theme park empire without new attractions!!!

That’s Billions (with a “B”) of wasted money for Disney while Universal rapidly builds Massive Harry Potter expansions in both California and Orlando. At least Universal will have something new for Disneyland’s 60th anniversary. Perhaps that’s the message Iger should be taking to his shareholders."





Those posts are articulate and entertaining, but the the only thing they are really hitting are "status quo is great" softballs.

Generally people don't go online to give positive reviews. Most posting online is people complaining or being overly critical of something. Of course you're going to find complaints online due to that nature.

 

[OnSpaceshipEarth]

BINGO!!! Our kids are now even older and we face the same issue. We visited back in November; at Hollywood Studios my seventeen year old son had no interest in anything other than RNR, Star Tours and TOT. That meant we were pretty much done with the park in less than 2 hours. Pretty much the same experience at Epcot (Soarin and Test Track and then onto the WS which was a useful distraction for about two hours).

In comparison, we had to drag him out of Universal after a day that started at 8 and went to closing. That complex overall has a much broader and better mix of attractions relative to the age factor. Plenty of stuff for the small fry but you can keep the thrill seekers happy too. Citywalk also was of more interest to our son than DTD.

I understand totally what you are saying about the "thrill factor" for teens and young adults. Disney had better up the ante in this regard. While they will never become a "thrill park", they *do* need to add more *thrilling* attractions spread evenly between the 4 parks. Not an insane level...just quite a bit more.

 

[rteetz]

We all know what Disney's attendance numbers are... If you want to be smarty pants about it..go back and look at the growth in numbers since 1999 (first full year of animal kingdom... The only fair benchmark) Do the math and notice that attendance increase has slowed or stagnated on the whole. These parks aren't full... That's the problem - how to get them to rise. If we accept that magic kingdom is fine...as we most could agree...and is at 17.5 million... Then we should wonder what would be a reasonable goal for the other based on size, investment, and operational cost IF the would be run properly with proper investment and innovation. Here's my reasonable list: MK: 17 mil EPCOT/AK: 13-15 MGM: 10-12 mil That is based on size and potential... And it just so happens that the two (my view) underperforming on that list have been the victim of fairly obvious mismanagement over the last 15 years. That...for "Koolaid" drinkers like me...is the problem within even their large numbers. That complex is not being run as intelligently as it needs and can be... And this universal talk (and it is mostly that at this point)... Could catch on as time goes on and experience real burnoff... And as my esteemed fellow poster above has stated with a wonderful example... Longterm loyalty is not regained and nobody is immune. GM, ford and Chrysler didnt worry about VW much in the 60s or Honda in the 70s.. Or Hyundai in the 90's. Without a government bailout two of three would be gone. No question sold off and rebranded if not mothballed. It takes time but once momentum builds it is like stopping an avalanche or a hurricane...you just end up dead. Anyone notice Microsoft these days? It's "ok"...in 1995 bill gates could have popped Steve jobs like a zit. He didnt...what's worth more now? In 1984 Disney was over leveraged and stagnant. So why are their parks untouchable? I agree that right now it's not much a threat...but why mess with it? Why invite it? The reality is that if the Disneyland local market hadnt effectively pulled a consumer coup at California adventure (wdw customers have not even considered doing...but should)...that retrofit doesn't happen. They would have gotten the "animal kingdom" treatment...a thing here or there every five years as long as lag is within sight of the "good parks". MGM has always been overattended...nothing there justifys the crowd. And conveniently...during the period where they have wasted time on Chinese parks (15 years now)...which aren't on the sweetheart "you build- we pay" deals that the Japanese parks were. They are making more money because they are using their brand and symbols - few in pop culture have as much value - to systematically charge more every year for every single thing. But that's capital they shouldn't expend... Charging 100% inflation every ten years (don't test that...it's true) because there's a mouse head on the damn band. I'm serious here... Go book your fastpass +...it's honestly laughable and they put it in our face by choice. My father in law bought a 10 day no expiration, water park hopper from AAA today for $760...I bought a 5 day one from the Disney store (no discount) in nov 2004 for $211 with tax. More profit is an "ends justifies the means" classic excuse. It doesn't make Disney right in this case... Just greedy. And Iger, Staggs, Rasulo will be long gone in 10 years...you can't honestly think they're worried about 50, do you? If bad direction by late Eisner/Iger knocks the pilings out from under the house in 20 years...you and I will be left to weep and wonder. Real Disney fans (and I am one) should want them to give me a $0.75 investment back for every $1.00 I spend. No company ever goes out of business with a 25% margin. That's what you want...but that is not what you're getting...Chinese parks for trade deals and magic bands to reduce workers and wages. And besides... That crap in walmart and every Disney giftshop is on an 80% margin anyway.

I understand where your coming from. I myself have only been to universal once and that was almost 10 years ago I have no need to go back HP doesn't interest me. Disney is where my family has always gone. I agree with you that disney should not create a threat because they are ahead. Disney is branding out in china right now because that's where they obviously see the biggest need. AK and DHS are the two parks with the biggest needs everybody can agree on that. Epcots day will come in 10 years. AK is getting Avatar which is supposed to bring two attractions with one being a major e ticket attraction. I know not everyone like the movie avatar and not everybody supports disney on the whole franchising in avatar but it is what it is. I still think avatar will be a good addition. DHS was rumored to get monsters inc, Carsland, and now Star Wars. I strongly believe they are working on Star Wars to be added as a new land. Whether we will see it announced this year, next year or some year after is yet to be heard or seen. I have a feeling that maybe they will do something at this years 25th anniversary of DHS but again who knows. I also believe if disney was able which they aren't right now they would have put marvel in the Orlando parks. I think just like Star Wars that has a strong fan base and would create some great attractions. That's why we are seeing those attractions overseas and new marvel things on cruise ships. Iger will be gone in 10 years but I also have a feeling that Staggs might stay a while. In order to be one of the top companies in the world they have to be doing something right. They which has been noted lead in attendance in the parks and resorts, they had the best app in the App Store this year according to apple, yahoo gave them high remarks, disney infinity is doing well, the cruise ships are doing well, disney movies are doing well. Disney is going to do what they feel necessary at this time and I guess its not much more than mymagic + and avatar.

 

[rteetz]

I understand totally what you are saying about the "thrill factor" for teens and young adults. Disney had better up the ante in this regard. While they will never become a "thrill park", they *do* need to add more *thrilling* attractions spread evenly between the 4 parks. Not an insane level...just quite a bit more.

Disney has never really been a place to do the thrill. They have test track, ToT, and rockin roller coaster as their thrills maybe expedition Everest as well. Disney doesn't want to be a thrill park thats six flags job. Disney wants to put you in the magic immerse you in the story that disney has been telling for 90 years. If disney wanted to be all about thrills they wouldn't build detailed lands and a castle to front their mainstream parks.

 

[old lady]

It actually makes sense that they do compete aggressively. I wish Six Flags and Disney would do the same.

 

[rteetz]

It actually makes sense that they do compete aggressively. I wish Six Flags and Disney would do the same.

Disney is a much stronger and older company they would never do the same thing six flags was doing if anything six flags would follow in the foot steps of disney. Disney really built the huge competitiveness of the theme park industry if you own a theme park you want to be like a disney theme park. You want to be that world known name. Six flags is a nice summer day park for me but by no means will they sustain anything for me to spend a week straight at a six flags theme park.

 

[OnSpaceshipEarth]

Disney has never really been a place to do the thrill. They have test track, ToT, and rockin roller coaster as their thrills maybe expedition Everest as well. Disney doesn't want to be a thrill park thats six flags job. Disney wants to put you in the magic immerse you in the story that disney has been telling for 90 years. If disney wanted to be all about thrills they wouldn't build detailed lands and a castle to front their mainstream parks.

@rteetz

I absolutely agree. I don't think they should become a Six Flags. I'm just saying that they do need to add some more *thrilling* attractions spread evenly throughout the 4 parks. Maybe one new big one at each park within the next ten years.

You've gotta have balance...and they have to have a more cutting-edge thrill ride than Rock-N-Roller Coaster. It's all about vibe and word-of-mouth sandwiched between the classic magical experience.

Disney's aim should be a 4-quadrant park where the varying ages of the average family's kids get psyched about a Disney Vacation.

 

[Borishack]

I ran into this article that a Sea World guru doesn't thing the new HP will have as big an affect. The article notes that Sea World DID take a pretty good hit when HP first opened.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/os-seaworld-harry-potter-impact-20140109,0,2495128.story

The logic the Chicago analyst employed to come to his conclusion "Potter II" won't be as big as the original is simplistic and flawed: he feels because there is no new Potter movie or book scheduled for release around the time the expansion opens that will depress attendance.

Yes, that actually made me laugh. All the Avatar advocates here employ completely polar logic when they are challenged on the same level (ergo, Avatar has yet to even prove itself as a franchise, so won't that depress interest). The advocates of course say "no."

So if they get to employ that logic, I certainly get to state the Chicago analyst is dead wrong. Potter is an established franchise with huge inertia. The millions who have been exposed to the books and films as well as the original Wizarding World will have huge interest in seeing and experiencing the expansion.

 

[rteetz]

@rteetz I absolutely agree. I don't think they should become a Six Flags. I'm just saying that they do need to add some more *thrilling* attractions spread evenly throughout the 4 parks. Maybe one new big one at each park within the next ten years. You've gotta have balance...and they have to have a more cutting-edge thrill ride than Rock-N-Roller Coaster. It's all about vibe and word-of-mouth sandwiched between the classic magical experience. Disney's aim should be a 4-quadrant park where the varying ages of the average family's kids get psyched about a Disney Vacation.

I agree with you but I don't think we will see any new major things happen at MK for at least 15 years. I also don't I want to see a thrill ride in MK that park is all about the magic I think they are fine where they are. Where they should increase in the thrill category out of any park should be DHS. That park needs a lot I think Star Wars may bring some sort of thrill but I don't know what form that will be. AK would probably be next for a possible thrill ride but I don't think anything there would be a lot more thrilling than EE. Epcot I don't think they will add any thrills there at least for a while. Epcot is such a unique park unlike any other its hard to see what a thrill there would be other than something like test track. I think Epcot will expand in other areas over the next 10-20 years.

 

[quest4dl]

We had originally planned to spend our week of vacation in March at Disney exclusively until I started to learn more about all the changes. With my kids in their teens now, they want to ride the thrill rides - fewer of those at Disney and now with the tiering, we'll be lucky to ride all of them and probably only once. Disney is preferable for families with younger kids but there's not as much for the teen market.

The other edge Disney has is their food offerings. But with the new 24 hr cancellation and credit card hold policy with ADRs we won't be making any this trip. We'll take our chances with walking in and more counter service - not thrilled about this as we like to have nicer meals.

So now after 4 nights we make a huge park hop to Universal where we go to the front of the line as resort guests for attractions AND restaurants. I'm just worried that more and more people are getting the same idea and it will be that much more crowded at Universal!

 

[mvk]

The logic the Chicago analayst employed to come to his conclusion "Potter II" won't be as big as the original is simplistic and flawed: he feels because there is no new Potter movie or book scheduled for release around the time the expansion opens that will depress attendance.

Yes, that actually made me laugh. All the Avatar advocates here employ completely polar logic when they are challenged on the same level (ergo, Avatar has yet to even prove itself as a franchise, so won't that depress interest). The advocates of course say "no."

So if they get to employ that logic, I certainly get to state the Chicago analyst is dead wrong. Potter is an established franchise with huge inertia. The millions who have been exposed to the books and films as well as the original Wizarding World will have huge interest in seeing and experiencing the expansion.

The Avatar sequels will be out by the time Pandora is open, or at least the first sequel will be. It's due to be released in 2016. It'll be quite the synergy with the movie and land opening around the same time (2016/2017).

 

[rteetz]

The logic the Chicago analyst employed to come to his conclusion "Potter II" won't be as big as the original is simplistic and flawed: he feels because there is no new Potter movie or book scheduled for release around the time the expansion opens that will depress attendance. Yes, that actually made me laugh. All the Avatar advocates here employ completely polar logic when they are challenged on the same level (ergo, Avatar has yet to even prove itself as a franchise, so won't that depress interest). The advocates of course say "no." So if they get to employ that logic, I certainly get to state the Chicago analyst is dead wrong. Potter is an established franchise with huge inertia. The millions who have been exposed to the books and films as well as the original Wizarding World will have huge interest in seeing and experiencing the expansion.

I have to agree with you here I think the new expansion will be a success I will not be going tho as I'm not a big fan of the movies or books. With that said I'm also not a huge fan of the avatar movie and I don't know what the success of the future movies will be. I am interested to see what avatar can bring to disney. No one can say that HP hasn't helped universal drastically. The one franchise I think will help disney is Star Wars because that has been around longer than HP and so many people have seen those movies or heard of them because there is so many and many more are to come. I think is disney invests strongly and smartly in Star Wars they will stump what HP did in universal but thats when and if disney invests strongly in Star Wars.

 

[rteetz]

The Avatar sequels will be out by the time Pandora is open, or at least the first sequel will be. It's due to be released in 2016. It'll be quite the synergy with the movie and land opening around the same time (2016/2017).

the avatar movies have been delayed a lot already tho there has been an almost 8 year timeIm between the first and the second movie. Who's to say that the movies won't be delayed even longer as well.

 

[OnSpaceshipEarth]

We had originally planned to spend our week of vacation in March at Disney exclusively until I started to learn more about all the changes. With my kids in their teens now, they want to ride the thrill rides - fewer of those at Disney and now with the tiering, we'll be lucky to ride all of them and probably only once. Disney is preferable for families with younger kids but there's not as much for the teen market.

The other edge Disney has is their food offerings. But with the new 24 hr cancellation and credit card hold policy with ADRs we won't be making any this trip. We'll take our chances with walking in and more counter service - not thrilled about this as we like to have nicer meals.

So now after 4 nights we make a huge park hop to Universal where we go to the front of the line as resort guests for attractions AND restaurants. I'm just worried that more and more people are getting the same idea and it will be that much more crowded at Universal!

Yes...we spent a week at WDW this past July(a supposed "peak season") and had ADRs for every day/night. The restaurants were ALL half-empty(except for Cinderella's Royal Table). It seems we could have gone to all of the restaurants when we actually *felt* like it instead of following a rigid timeline. Next trip we will only make ADR's for "event" restaurants and eat on a whim(much more enjoyable).

 

[rteetz]

We had originally planned to spend our week of vacation in March at Disney exclusively until I started to learn more about all the changes. With my kids in their teens now, they want to ride the thrill rides - fewer of those at Disney and now with the tiering, we'll be lucky to ride all of them and probably only once. Disney is preferable for families with younger kids but there's not as much for the teen market. The other edge Disney has is their food offerings. But with the new 24 hr cancellation and credit card hold policy with ADRs we won't be making any this trip. We'll take our chances with walking in and more counter service - not thrilled about this as we like to have nicer meals. So now after 4 nights we make a huge park hop to Universal where we go to the front of the line as resort guests for attractions AND restaurants. I'm just worried that more and more people are getting the same idea and it will be that much more crowded at Universal!

Disney is just trying to cut down on no shows they don't want people making reservations and not showing up they want to fill their restaurants which what they are doing I think is completely fine. The credit card is only on their as a sort of deposit if you show up you don't have to pay with it or use that credit card it's only if you don't show up. I don't know why 24 hours isn't enough time to cancel a reservation unless it is an emergency. If I have an ADR I've never missed it I'm going to that restaurant because I booked it I only ADR the restaurants I really want to go to anyways especially those that fill up fast. Disney is only doing tiring in two parks and whose to say that won't change again. Who's to also say disney won't give out more FP as in more than three maybe it will end up being a perk with staying on site. With this FP+ testing it changes all the time because disney is trying to get it right. Teens in disney have options there are rides there it's just they are long wait rides and with tiering you can't do all of them with a FP, but that's why they still have that line that existed prior to FP existing called the standby line. My family of five only used 3 FPs our entire vacation in July of 2012 longest wait was for TSMM because I we couldn't get a FP for it that wait was 60 minutes we also waited for soarin 55 minutes. Other than that our average wait was 20 minutes maybe which that time flys by these days especially with a lot of these new interactive queues. But I guess it all depends on your family.

 

[mvk]

the avatar movies have been delayed a lot already tho there has been an almost 8 year timeIm between the first and the second movie. Who's to say that the movies won't be delayed even longer as well.

He delayed them to prepare to take a 7-mile trek down into the ocean. In the meantime, he has had writers working on both sequels and new technology developed for the ocean scenes, which there will apparently be many. The 2016 seems pretty firm now.

 

[mvk]

If you want thrill rides, I'm not sure why you're going to Disney or Universal in the first place.

 

[rteetz]

If you want thrill rides, I'm not sure why you're going to Disney or Universal in the first place.

bingo!

 

[disneylovin24]

Disney has never really been a place to do the thrill. They have test track, ToT, and rockin roller coaster as their thrills maybe expedition Everest as well. Disney doesn't want to be a thrill park thats six flags job. Disney wants to put you in the magic immerse you in the story that disney has been telling for 90 years. If disney wanted to be all about thrills they wouldn't build detailed lands and a castle to front their mainstream parks.