College or not?

[Colleen27]

While debt takes away options...an education is an investment. As with any investment you have to decide how much you can afford to invest and what the potential rewards are.

That's it exactly - education is an investment, and like any investment one needs to weight the risks against the rewards. When the risk involves 5-figure debt, the reward needs to be both fairly certain and reasonably lucrative.

 

[Colleen27]

In college and chiropractic school, I figured that I would have my practice and work, and my husband would be at home. Figured that staying home with a child sounded horrendous; after all, my mom only did it until I was 4 and my brother was 2 and then she went back to work!

I didn't really see myself as a SAHM either. My mom wasn't, and she was very dismissive of women who did SAH. She didn't (still doesn't, but she's learned to bite her tongue around me) believe it is a worthwhile choice for intelligent women, nor does she believe it is wise to depend on a man financially. I didn't grow up thinking that staying home was really a choice for me at all, even though I hated how hectic our homelife was with my mom working full time and seldom home.

It wasn't until I had my oldest and was dropping him off at 7am not to see him again until 6pm that I realized I just wasn't cut out to do that for his entire childhood.

 

[BuzzPrincessMom]

I have to say I haven't read the whole thread...

I am a Community College adjunct professor who was a SAHM for 7 years.

I came out of HS and went to a 4 year school, graduated, and then after I got married worked full time and went to grad school at night to get my MS so I could teach.

I think you could have the best of both worlds. I encourage my students who talk of someday transfering, to research the transfer requirements for their desired institution early in their CC career. That way you are not wasting credits and it really is a savings. Many take their gen eds with me at the CC and then go take their core at their new institutions.

 

[Shleedogg]

Incorrect, you can teach at a 4 year school with a MA; I've been doing it every day for 3 years now.

Do you have a certain number of credits towards a PhD? In NY you can't teach at a 4 yr (at least a state school) w/out a PhD unless you're working on it and have a certain number of credits towards it.

 

[Shleedogg]

Bumpershoot: Funny you should ask. When I have asked him the same question, he says, "I see myself 20 yrs from now as one one of these guys on the History Channel, sitting in an easy chair, sporting an impressive mustache, telling you all about the military history of the US during the last two centuries." LOL! How's that for specific? He has a great sense of humor, but it really is what he enjoys. He has no desire to become an educator. Sooo....?

Which leads me to your next statement. Funny that you should say this also, because I have encouraged him to consider studying some aspect of the law. He is a decent writer and an avid reader, who often spends hours researching topics that interest him. I think it would be a good path for him, and still be able to tie in some of what he loves. We have discussed perhaps delving into Criminology with a minor in History, both of which would support an interest in Law.

LOL that's too funny! Your son sounds like me. I love research. Had a research assistantship in college. It was fascinating and wonderful to get paid for doing something I loved doing. Unfortunately I couldn't find a job like that after graduation. Do tell him to read the captions under the person's name next time he's watching one of those shows. They are generally professors at a university.

 

[hinodis]

College is far more then just academics. I think the the whole picture of living there and discovering what you want to do and learning about life is priceless. They have an oppotunity to be on there own yet slowly released to being self sufficient. Both of my sons went to a four year under grad school and both decided to continue their education further. My sons friend went to a community college for 4 years and is now a sophmore ate a state university. Alot does depend on the person.

 

[csharpwv]

4 quick points-
- An individual with a 4Yr college degree WILL earn $1 Million more over their lifetime vs. an individual with just a HS diploma.

- Opportunity comes at a cost - education is the ONLY thing that you will take with you to your grave - it truly is a LIFE LONG - LIFE TIME investment.

- A student just coming out of high school has less issues in life to deal with that could interfere with their ability to complete a college degree.

- For every year a student spends out of college - the probability of a student going back to college and attaining a 4 year degree decreases at least 15% and as much as 25% (depending on family educational attainment history - access to a community college with flexible degree completion options including articulation agreements with 4 year colleges/universities- AND job market degree demands/requirements)

If a student isn't mentally ready to go to college right after high school and they feel like they need time off- a PRODUCTIVE gap year isn't a bad thing - BUT that year should NOT be spent working a minimum wage job that any career oriented workplace would consider a waste of time and opportunity. Working a minimum wage job to 'save up for college' is both a waste of time, energy, and effort. However - going into a gap year the first thing the student needs to do is have a grasp on the college application process and a solid plan to start school either that winter/spring term or the following fall.

However - going into the workforce with no marketable skills, training, or advanced education will result in dead-end jobs and a diminished earning potential.

 

[carrie1626]

Remember the old saying
'love what you do, do what you love"

I think helping her find a path to what interests her is very important. If she's unsure, then going to a 4yr college right away might not be the best.

BUT.....
Secondly, have a very frank discussion of pay vs cost of living. I'm pretty honest with my 2 (DD20 1000 miles away at a 4 yr) and (DS17 just might go to school in our hometown) about how much $$ comes into this household and what the costs are: mortgage, utilities, groceries,medical , car , gas, insurance and ALL the other stuff: internet, cable, cell phone ETC. It really opens up their eyes to what it takes to live a basic, nice and happy life.

 

[momblanch]

LOL that's too funny! Your son sounds like me. I love research. Had a research assistantship in college. It was fascinating and wonderful to get paid for doing something I loved doing. Unfortunately I couldn't find a job like that after graduation. Do tell him to read the captions under the person's name next time he's watching one of those shows. They are generally professors at a university.

This is exactly what I have been telling him!

4 quick points-
- An individual with a 4Yr college degree WILL earn $1 Million more over their lifetime vs. an individual with just a HS diploma.

- Opportunity comes at a cost - education is the ONLY thing that you will take with you to your grave - it truly is a LIFE LONG - LIFE TIME investment.

- A student just coming out of high school has less issues in life to deal with that could interfere with their ability to complete a college degree.

- For every year a student spends out of college - the probability of a student going back to college and attaining a 4 year degree decreases at least 15% and as much as 25% (depending on family educational attainment history - access to a community college with flexible degree completion options including articulation agreements with 4 year colleges/universities- AND job market degree demands/requirements)

If a student isn't mentally ready to go to college right after high school and they feel like they need time off- a PRODUCTIVE gap year isn't a bad thing - BUT that year should NOT be spent working a minimum wage job that any career oriented workplace would consider a waste of time and opportunity. Working a minimum wage job to 'save up for college' is both a waste of time, energy, and effort. However - going into a gap year the first thing the student needs to do is have a grasp on the college application process and a solid plan to start school either that winter/spring term or the following fall.

However - going into the workforce with no marketable skills, training, or advanced education will result in dead-end jobs and a diminished earning potential.

While your points are most valid, and I agree with your statements, we are living in a different world right now. I deeply value higher education. However, I wish I had a dollar for everyone I know right now, with a college degree and loads of debt, seeking employment. Hopefully things will turn around.

My DH and I are both self-employed and have strongly encouraged our kids to attend college. With the $$ we have saved, if DS attends CC transferring to 4yr, say...Rutgers, his diploma will still say Rutgers, and he will graduate debt free. Where as 4yrs at Rutgers, he'll be starting his life with upwards of $40K in loans. That is our situation. Now...is CC vs debt a trade-off for the "whole college experience"? Yes, perhaps. I guess we are willing to make that trade.

 

[blanq]

4 quick points-
- An individual with a 4Yr college degree WILL earn $1 Million more over their lifetime vs. an individual with just a HS diploma...QUOTE]

I just want to comment on the word "WILL" in your post since you placed emphasis on it. I have read this statistic and I believe it is an average and it does not mean that every person with a 4 year degree will earn 1 million more than someone with a HS diploma. My DH is an example of how this statement does not necessarily ring true. He has a HS diploma and earns a (low) six figure income, compared to me who has a 4 year degree and earns about $40K less than he does. A degree is required for my position. I will never make the income my DH does.

 

[Colleen27]

4 quick points-
- An individual with a 4Yr college degree WILL earn $1 Million more over their lifetime vs. an individual with just a HS diploma...

I just want to comment on the word "WILL" in your post since you placed emphasis on it. I have read this statistic and I believe it is an average and it does not mean that every person with a 4 year degree will earn 1 million more than someone with a HS diploma. My DH is an example of how this statement does not necessarily ring true. He has a HS diploma and earns a (low) six figure income, compared to me who has a 4 year degree and earns about $40K less than he does. A degree is required for my position. I will never make the income my DH does.

Yes, that figure is an average, and it takes into account a lot of situations like you describe. That is just the average earnings for all college educated people, from the 9-figure CEO to the creative writing major jockeying an espresso machine while trying to sell his novel, compared against the average earnings from all non-degreed employees from the journeyman plumber down to the sporadically employed high school drop-out. And because both are such broad groups, there are going to be exceptions, particularly with less marketable degrees or lower-earning "helping" professions like teaching and social work.

 

[Tistal]

But it would be easier to obtain such a position with a PhD.

I'm not going to argue with you.

Do you have a certain number of credits towards a PhD? In NY you can't teach at a 4 yr (at least a state school) w/out a PhD unless you're working on it and have a certain number of credits towards it.

It depends on where you are. Like everything else with education, it varies state to state and area to area. Here, SCHEV and SACS, which are our governing bodies, only require adjuncts who teach of 100 and 200 level general education classes to have a master's. Adjuncts make up a good portion of the teaching force at most of the community colleges and many of the larger 4 year institutions.

Many individuals adjunct while they're working on their Ph.D or in between their master's and Ph.D, but many are happy filling an adjunct position as their career.

 

[TammyAlphabet]

Hard question. I know some people just swear that kids don't know what is good for them and just force them into college. Others, like myself, feel it ought to be the child's decision.

I am a college professor and believe me there are many students there who shouldn't be. College is hard enough without motivation.

For my own son, who was expelled from school in the middle of his senior year, arrested for possession, and has shown absolutely no ambition, I told him I didn't think he was ready for college and that he should get a job and/or go to a trade school of some type, whatever interested him. Guess what? He choose college. Go figure some kids.

 

[ShanPooh]

4 quick points-
- An individual with a 4Yr college degree WILL earn $1 Million more over their lifetime vs. an individual with just a HS diploma...QUOTE]

I just want to comment on the word "WILL" in your post since you placed emphasis on it. I have read this statistic and I believe it is an average and it does not mean that every person with a 4 year degree will earn 1 million more than someone with a HS diploma. My DH is an example of how this statement does not necessarily ring true. He has a HS diploma and earns a (low) six figure income, compared to me who has a 4 year degree and earns about $40K less than he does. A degree is required for my position. I will never make the income my DH does.

Wow, at this rate, I'll have to work 190 more years to make that 4 year degree of mine worthwhile

 

[superdiz]

This is a very tough topic.

I honestly feel that many people (and I'm generalizing) who do not go to college right out of high school lose the interest in it and may never go.

However, here's my story.

I was pressured to go for business, so I did, right out of high school. I have my bachelors in management & economics and worked in finance for 5 years. Hated every single second but made a very nice paycheck. That paycheck paid for my wedding in Disney and helped us accrue a pretty nice savings and I have a nice little nest egg for retirement.

Then I realized what I really wanted to do and went back to school at 27 to become a nurse. I now have two bachelor degrees and make much more than I did in finance doing something that I love.

With those two bachelor degrees comes student loan debt. Not fun. But given the $$ coming in vs the cost of the degrees that I need to make that kind of money - it's a toss in the pan and well worth it.

My friends who do not have college degrees make less than $40k/year and live paycheck to paycheck. Some people get lucky, but without a degree, getting a foot in the door is extremely difficult. Especially since a bachelors degree is becoming something everyone has whereas when my parents were graduating high school, that was not the case.

So in my case - sure - had I waited until I was older, I probably would have gone back to school and saved in college loan debt. However, there is no way I would have made the type of money I did right out of college at 22 and paid for our wedding ourselves nor would we have a house right now had I done that.

I would recommend college right out of high school. No one in my family ever talked to me about what I wanted to do/be etc. I relied largely on my friends - most of whom did go to college.

Long winded but hope it helps?

 

[Michelle and crew]

Yes, that figure is an average, and it takes into account a lot of situations like you describe. That is just the average earnings for all college educated people, from the 9-figure CEO to the creative writing major jockeying an espresso machine while trying to sell his novel, compared against the average earnings from all non-degreed employees from the journeyman plumber down to the sporadically employed high school drop-out. And because both are such broad groups, there are going to be exceptions, particularly with less marketable degrees or lower-earning "helping" professions like teaching and social work.

Exactly. It is a ridiculous statistic.

People need to use common sense and do what they can afford and get the most out of it. My son is taking classes free at the Community College as a high school Junior. Any child in the state of OH is able to do this. Ours has an agreement with the state universities and the list of classes. DS wants to be an engineer, and part of our goal now is to get him some of the stuff that isn't required. Crazy as that sounds. Engineering school does not emphasize the liberal arts types of courses that broaden the knowledge of the student.

 

[ShanPooh]

Exactly. It is a ridiculous statistic.

People need to use common sense and do what they can afford and get the most out of it. My son is taking classes free at the Community College as a high school Junior. Any child in the state of OH is able to do this. Ours has an agreement with the state universities and the list of classes. DS wants to be an engineer, and part of our goal now is to get him some of the stuff that isn't required. Crazy as that sounds. Engineering school does not emphasize the liberal arts types of courses that broaden the knowledge of the student.

Isn't post-secondary option a wonderful thing?!? I hope it's still available for my kids in a few years (oh that Ohio budget!)

I talked to DH at lunch about OPs concerns. His advice is: community college to start and whatever your major is, work hard on getting a high GPA. Up here in Ohio with a plethora of colleges come an even larger amount of college graduates. Most places won't look at applicants with less than a 3.0 - seriously, 2.9 in Astrophysics or 4.0 in Leisure Studies, guess who will move forward.

 

[asmit4]

Do you have a certain number of credits towards a PhD? In NY you can't teach at a 4 yr (at least a state school) w/out a PhD unless you're working on it and have a certain number of credits towards it.

I have to disagree on this. My husband is 1/2 way through his masters. He has 10 years experience in the workforce too. He has been asked numerous times to teach at Buffalo State which is a SUNY college. They want him to teach a sophmore level communications writing class. He hasn't done it yet b/c he wants to finish his masters first and he is working full time too but down the line? He has every intention of teaching the class for some extra $$. While he won't be a full professor or anything close to that- he would in fact be the 1 and only teacher teaching the class, he would not be a TA. They offered the job to him to teach the class last year too- and at that time he only had 1/4 of his masters done.

 

[angierae]

My daughter is a sophmore in high school, hates it, and gets very average grades - mostly C's with a smattering of B's and I think she had one final grade of "D" last year. She isn't stupid,she just doesn't enjoy it and although we force studying time and homework we can't force her to focus on tests at school. (Yes, she is punished for bad grades and encouraged when she gets good ones, but school just isn't a priority for her. Right now she's not allowed to join Clarinet Choir or the anime club until she gets her German grade up. We're hoping that will motivate her because she really enjoys music and is excited that they're developing a clarinet choir.)

I don't want her to NOT go to college, tho, so I think we're discussing her doing a community college part time for a year or two until she gets her footing. I know she won't be going away to school with those grades, and I think that full time CC might be more than she can handle. But if she takes 3 years to transfer to a 4 year school and then takes another 3 years to finish, at least she'll finish, and she won't feel so overwhelmed she'll want to quit.

 

[msmama]

Does she have an idea of what she wants to be "when she grows up?"

For my son (who is only 2) college will not be a choice. He will go to college (which we will pay for) and after that he can decide for himself what he wants to do.

I'm in the boat of having to go back for my Masters Degree to get any kind of worthwhile job in my area (location wise not just field wise). It'd be horrible to have to go through both college and an advanced degree.