College or not?

[ajh88]

I'll start with advice, what little I have. What is your DD interested in doing? Does she have any idea at all, or is she completely a blank slate when it comes to future aspirations? Maybe instead of pushing her toward college, you could discuss her plans for the future and see what she needs to do to achieve her goals. Does she currently work or have plans to work after graduation? For some people, I do think holding off on college for a year, or maybe even just a semester, is enough - for others, college may just not be for them.

Example 1 - Me. I was always college bound, literally, from like 2nd grade I said what I wanted to do. I actually even always aspired to grad school, but after I graduated college, I was wait-listed to my top choice school and entered the job market instead (with a bachelor's in biology). I got 9 great years of experience (ones I never would have gotten without a degree) before I finally decided to go back to school. I'm almost done now, but it was definitely MUCH harder pursuing a degree with family and financial obligations. It is so hard to see that when you are 18 (or 21) though.

Example 2 - My sister. She NEVER wanted to go to college but my parents more or less made her. She did a 2 year associates in radiology and became an x-ray tech. She made reasonable money (probably more than I did at my first job) but she HATED it. She has always worked but has bounced around from job to job in the healthcare field. Finally, at the age of about 28 (and with 2 kids), she decided to complete her bachelor's in healthcare administration. After that, she went on for her master's in the same field. Now, she is graduated and still working at the job she had before she went back to school, but she is much happier. I don't know if the additional education will ever be "worth it" for her in terms of return on investment, but it has brought her self-satisfaction which is difficult to measure in dollars.

Maybe a career counselor or something else of the sort could be helpful for your DD at this point. Community college is great for general education or if she wants to pursue a specific vocation - it may help her decide what direction she'd like to head. The only down side with specific vocational training is that you are trained for THAT job - if you decide later (like my sister) that you hate it, you nearly have to start over (except for whatever gen eds your associates required).

Is it imperative to have a college degree to be successful? Absolutely not. Is a college degree ever going to hold you back from getting a job? Not in any situation that I can envision (I guess you might have to explain if you apply for a job in a totally different field from what your degree is). I whole-heartedly believe higher education is a good thing and it is a safer bet than NOT going for a degree and hoping for the best in terms of job prospects, but I also agree that not everyone is ready for college straight out of high school.

 

[ajh88]

OP here - thanks everyone! I knew there would be a variety of responses - that's what I need to hear.

DD wants to go to college, has an idea about what she is interested in, and My DH and I have 3 college degrees between us. DD is not sure which college or for sure which path to take just yet (I realize this is fine! she's just starting senior year). She's excited at the prospect of going away to school, but this being the budget board, $ is definietly a big factor.

Was just trying to take the temperature of how important/useful a college degree is "these days", and 4 year vs an "art school" or junior college, or just waiting until you firm up what you want to do before jumping in and writing a big check (or getting a big loan).

OK - this sort of seems like a completely different question than how I interpreted the original post! Ignore pretty much all of what I said then...she sounds like she is ready for college, you just have to help her decide on which one. Good luck!

 

[rantnnravin]

2-things:
I wasn't able to got to college directly out of HS due to lack of financial resources. Plus - i didn't even know what I wanted to do, so I kept working. (I worked in a doctor's office from the time I was 15.) I didn't go to college until 8 years later and finally knew what I wanted to do. Don't expect that grants will come flooding in due to her independent status. It sure didn't happen that way with me - and I owe citibank more than i can comfortably say on this board.
I wasn't able to get into my college of choice because it had been so long, but I was accepted into a very good local university, so it all worked out... So, keep in mind that colleges may be reluctant to accept a freshman who is starting much later.
Now, about the 2-year, 4-year thing: Your DD may want to consider doing her first 2 years at a community college. If I had it to do all over again, I would have. - It costs much less and she would be taking EXACTLY the same courses that would be required at a 4-year. Plus, if she does well, it would be easier to transfer to her school of choice - should she postpone higher education. I also would have stayed in school and finished my master's directly after getting my BA - it was sooooo hard to get it done once I had a family and started working full-time.
Hope that helps some

 

[Wish Upon A Star]

I think it really depends on the individual. For instance, my son, also a high school senior, has ALWAYS known that he wanted to major in History in secondary education. I wish he'd consider elementary education, but it's his decision. He'll be going to college next Fall. His girlfriend since 8th grade has NO idea what she wants to do with her life and, isn't sure if she wants to go to college right away. I feel if they don't have an idea of what they want to do with their lives, they should put off going to a college with an undeclared major, but maybe take some courses at a community college. I just can't see putting out $$$$ if they don't know what they want to get into.

 

[ajk912]

You have not said anything in your OP that would suggest other than planning to go to college. Taking a year off or not (in order to pursue something concrete) or starting off at a 2-year college is a minor question.

The earlier the easier as far as college is concerned. Most questions of workload in college are based on 'biting off more than you can chew' and/or what field of study to pursue. College workload can be much lighter than in high school, especially freshman classes. In fact, many college students have the problem of too much freedom, which maybe they can't handle.

Now, if your DD is not at all academically inclined, if she hates the idea of school, and is not at all motivated to learn in a classroom environment, that's different. But that's not what you said. Assuming she is fairly normal, college is without a doubt the best idea for her. It's not even a decision really. In most cases it would be a serious mistake not to pursue college.

Where is this school, I think I want to enroll here. But my situation may be different, I go to a community college which is obviously a commuter college, and nearly everyone has either kids or a job as well as being a college student. I have never heard of ANYONE complaining about too much freedom..far be it..most complaints stem from trying to keep up with the workload while juggling other commitments.

 

[hpfan100]

College is not a waste of money ever. That degree can get you hired! Just because times are tough now does not mean college is a waste.

community college versus state college:

Please do some research on your local community college and transfer to university programs and set a plan. Students with no plans do not finish. If your cc programs are solid then go there and save some pennies. If they are not so great or your child is interested in things only a university has then choose that. (things like Greek life, sports, music)

In AZ the CC are better than the local state school and way cheaper. ASU costs almost 7000 a year just for tution in state while the CC costs about 1000 a year. I did time at the CC and liked it more than University classes.

Dont' worry about specialized versus general degrees right now or ever for that matter. A degree in something you are passionate about is the way to go. Personal example...I have a teaching degree (specialized) but always wanted to study biology (general). I changed because I thought I couldn't get a job with the BIO degree. I actually could be doing the same job with that degree as long as I took the extra teacher cert classes.

Good luck with the planning!!!

 

[aboveH20]

Maybe she'll be like my younger son who surprised the bejeepers out of us spring break of his senior year by deciding to join the military!

 

[ajk912]

I agree for any white-collar job a 4 year is necessary. Doesn't matter what it's in, you need a 4 year.

That being said, unless you have a lot of $$$ to throw around, majoring in philosophy or something is a waste of time unless you know a publisher who will get you a book deal, or your DD's sole aim in life is to be a professor.

To be fair, I was college bound my whole life, but made the realistic decision that things I liked such as theater and writing fiction were best left as hobbies. I got a degree in Mechanical Engineering and don't regret it. Hard as crap, it was brutal, but you know what? All of my friends have jobs. And I'm working towards a graduate degree studying a field I personally find fascinating and I'm getting paid enough to do it that with enough budgeting I'm living financially independent of my parents.

I personally don't recommend the community college route. I think the opportunity I got to mature into a (young, I don't pretend to have that much wisdom yet) adult was invaluable. Community college is basically 13th grade. Your DD will still be living at home and going to school, nothing will really change. She might not know what she wants, but if she thinks she wants college eventually, go to the local big state college. Worked for me. Cheaper than something stupidly fancy but will give her at least a year to explore her options in a real academic setting. Plus a lot of schools don't take many credits from community college, so you may end up wasting $$ on classes she took to "explore" which won't even be transferred and she'll have to spend more time/money to do them again. Not necessarily the case but it could happen, and you need to be very careful if you're going to do CC with the intent of a 4year. Personally everyone I ever knew who got a CC 2-year degree thought it was useless and a waste of money. They all had to go to a 4 year later.

Sorry if that comes off a bit harsh, but that's just my experience with how CC's screw more people than they help.

I disagree with this advice. Your state may be different, and I did not check the OP's state but it can't hurt to see what the community college offers. For someone who looks at the schedule and says, "Hey, child psychology or The Study of White Rocks looks interesting, I think I will take that class", without checking out whether that will count for their major, well, of course they run the risk of that class not transferring. I also read posts from people who do all four years at the pricier schools, and the general "it's basically the same class everywhere" type of classes, English, History, Computers, etc, can be hard to get into because EVERYONE needs to take them. The community colleges specialize in those classes, so much easier to find a class that works for your schedule. It would not be wise to take specialized classes at a community college, but no harm in doing the gen ed classes for cheaper.

You may even be able to find the course transfer agreements on the senior institution's website. I know where I will transfer to, so I just go to their website, click on my intended major, click on VCCS (Virginia community college) equivalent, it tells me EXACTLY what class section to take. It's not rocket science.

Also, many public colleges in my area of VA (it may be all of VA, I don't know) have guaranteed acceptance agreements. If I graduate with my associates from a community college with X GPA (varies by major, some 3.0 some 3.5) I am GUARANTEED acceptance at the 4 year school with junior standing. No picking and choosing of this credit transfers, this one doesn't, it's a 60 credit degree and they all count. You just waltz in and you start taking the junior classes, and all's good. And you saved a lot of money.

Your state may do something similiar, it can't hurt to check.

 

[sookie]

I think that some of the advice regarding community colleges here is wrong. I just wanted to throw this out there.
If you make a grade of less than a C at ANY College - it doesn't transfer. So that includes community college. You'd have to repeat it anyway for it to count towards your degree in most cases.
If you transfer from one state to the other (for instance - community college in kansas to university in Missouri) it is under more scrutiny and there often isn't an agreement in place between the college for courses that substitute for general ed. However, if you stay in the region (for instance, CC in kansas to a 4 year in kansas) there are pacts in place - so english one will transfer as an english one credit, etc. Before the kid enrolls, they have to look and see what is transfer-able if they have plans to go to another specific college.
I am a planner and I always knew I would be going to a four year and beyond, so I started looking at transfer equivalences freshman year, first semester at my 2 year college. I'm finishing my doctoral level now and I had my bachelors done in under 4 years because I planned it out right. It doesn't end up being 5 years if proper planning occurs. What is sad is that a lot of people at the 4 year still take 5-6 years to get done because of poor planning, and worse, poor advising on the part of professors that have wayyyy too many students to advise.

Also.... if you finish a TWO YEAR DEGREE - at an in state school - a lot of times they HAVE to take the two year degree and apply it as meeting "General ed" requirements at the 4 year degree. This is for in state schools only, and only if the person finishes the degree. We had a lot of people who finished "General studies" because of this at our two year.

This does not include places like university of phoenix, ITT tech, other "Technical" or private schools that do not have accreditations. Those schools will not transfer anything. People enroll in those expensive programs and get nothing out of them, I have found. Just FYI.

 

[sookie]

I disagree with this advice. Your state may be different, and I did not check the OP's state but it can't hurt to see what the community college offers. For someone who looks at the schedule and says, "Hey, child psychology or The Study of White Rocks looks interesting, I think I will take that class", without checking out whether that will count for their major, well, of course they run the risk of that class not transferring. I also read posts from people who do all four years at the pricier schools, and the general "it's basically the same class everywhere" type of classes, English, History, Computers, etc, can be hard to get into because EVERYONE needs to take them. The community colleges specialize in those classes, so much easier to find a class that works for your schedule. It would not be wise to take specialized classes at a community college, but no harm in doing the gen ed classes for cheaper.

You may even be able to find the course transfer agreements on the senior institution's website. I know where I will transfer to, so I just go to their website, click on my intended major, click on VCCS (Virginia community college) equivalent, it tells me EXACTLY what class section to take. It's not rocket science.

Also, many public colleges in my area of VA (it may be all of VA, I don't know) have guaranteed acceptance agreements. If I graduate with my associates from a community college with X GPA (varies by major, some 3.0 some 3.5) I am GUARANTEED acceptance at the 4 year school with junior standing. No picking and choosing of this credit transfers, this one doesn't, it's a 60 credit degree and they all count. You just waltz in and you start taking the junior classes, and all's good. And you saved a lot of money.

Your state may do something similiar, it can't hurt to check.

This woman knows what she is talking about!

 

[Fyrefly]

I disagree with this advice. Your state may be different, and I did not check the OP's state but it can't hurt to see what the community college offers. For someone who looks at the schedule and says, "Hey, child psychology or The Study of White Rocks looks interesting, I think I will take that class", without checking out whether that will count for their major, well, of course they run the risk of that class not transferring. I also read posts from people who do all four years at the pricier schools, and the general "it's basically the same class everywhere" type of classes, English, History, Computers, etc, can be hard to get into because EVERYONE needs to take them. The community colleges specialize in those classes, so much easier to find a class that works for your schedule. It would not be wise to take specialized classes at a community college, but no harm in doing the gen ed classes for cheaper.

You may even be able to find the course transfer agreements on the senior institution's website. I know where I will transfer to, so I just go to their website, click on my intended major, click on VCCS (Virginia community college) equivalent, it tells me EXACTLY what class section to take. It's not rocket science.

Also, many public colleges in my area of VA (it may be all of VA, I don't know) have guaranteed acceptance agreements. If I graduate with my associates from a community college with X GPA (varies by major, some 3.0 some 3.5) I am GUARANTEED acceptance at the 4 year school with junior standing. No picking and choosing of this credit transfers, this one doesn't, it's a 60 credit degree and they all count. You just waltz in and you start taking the junior classes, and all's good. And you saved a lot of money.

Your state may do something similiar, it can't hurt to check.

Good for VA then. I'm from MD and while they have been working on making things easier to transfer, it's still hard. Montgomery College transfers a lot, some of the other CCs not so much. When I worked admissions fairs I was taught about a lot of our admissions processes, at least for the College of Engineering, so I could provide the best advice possible to parents. I was taught if I was dealing with a parent whose student wasn't admitted, to go to community college, but watch the courses very carefully. Anything beyond basic gen ed and it was a crapshoot if it would transfer, and 2 years, at least for a technical degree was a waste of time because you don't get the kind of specialized courses you need at a CC.

So I'm sure my perspectives are a bit colored, but you really need to be careful if considering CC. Do your research. Don't get into a money trap.

Also if she is a senior in high school now, have you started applications? Do them anyway and decide later. If she decides in April to go it's too late. The universities all have admissions deadlines in November or December, or rarely January. It's better to take a few $$ hit now and have the option of going if come March or so her tune is changing, which it may be. She could even try deferring admission if it's granted and decides a year off would be a better idea. And applying early puts her in for the most scholarships, so this whole question of money may become a non-issue if she gets lucky.

But my advice to get the 4 year still stands. It's very well near required nowadays...

 

[A Mickeyfan]

I pushed my son to go right out of high school..he had a full scholarship.. he started, went for a 3 semesters then dropped out. He has not gone back (he is 24).

The next to graduate was my daughter (now 22), I did not pressure her, she went, and is now getting ready to apply to Grad Schools. She has nearly a 4.0 GPA.. in college that is. High school grades didn't earn her a scholarship.

The last to graduate is my baby. She graduated in June of this year (she is now 17). Again I did not pressure into college. She earned a small scholarship and started college this past Aug.. so far so good..

I have found thru my trials and errors.. not to pressure them into it. They are old enough to make their own decisions about wanting to go to college.. however on the same token, I have had a say in where they are attending. If I am paying, I need to be involved on that end. When they are ready and they want to, they will go. If you pressure them, they aren't doing it for them, but you.. and they may not succeed.

 

[hpfan100]

I think that some of the advice regarding community colleges here is wrong. I just wanted to throw this out there.
If you make a grade of less than a C at ANY College - it doesn't transfer. So that includes community college. You'd have to repeat it anyway for it to count towards your degree in most cases.
If you transfer from one state to the other (for instance - community college in kansas to university in Missouri) it is under more scrutiny and there often isn't an agreement in place between the college for courses that substitute for general ed. However, if you stay in the region (for instance, CC in kansas to a 4 year in kansas) there are pacts in place - so english one will transfer as an english one credit, etc. Before the kid enrolls, they have to look and see what is transfer-able if they have plans to go to another specific college.
I am a planner and I always knew I would be going to a four year and beyond, so I started looking at transfer equivalences freshman year, first semester at my 2 year college. I'm finishing my doctoral level now and I had my bachelors done in under 4 years because I planned it out right. It doesn't end up being 5 years if proper planning occurs. What is sad is that a lot of people at the 4 year still take 5-6 years to get done because of poor planning, and worse, poor advising on the part of professors that have wayyyy too many students to advise.

Also.... if you finish a TWO YEAR DEGREE - at an in state school - a lot of times they HAVE to take the two year degree and apply it as meeting "General ed" requirements at the 4 year degree. This is for in state schools only, and only if the person finishes the degree. We had a lot of people who finished "General studies" because of this at our two year.

This does not include places like university of phoenix, ITT tech, other "Technical" or private schools that do not have accreditations. Those schools will not transfer anything. People enroll in those expensive programs and get nothing out of them, I have found. Just FYI.

hence my post about the plan

UofP is bad bad bad. That is a for profit school and we call it a diploma mill here in Phoenix.

 

[crazelion]

I knew I want to work with computers all my life. Went to college for the computer degree. I got two degree and stop. Did not go to a 4 year school until years late o finish. I have 4 degree in computers.

I did not get on job offer for computers not one. I work miniunm wages all my life. so my degree did not help one bit.

I went back to school. I heard that they was looking for teachers in hurry. So I enroll in the program. Got the teacher degree part. Works as a teacher for six years before I got lay off.

It looks like I have go back to old reliable field that put through college food service which requires no degree.

School is not for everyone. Every job does not require a degree.

 

[Planogirl]

I think that even a University of Phoenix type of place can work well for certain people depending on what your purpose for going to school is. I personally wouldn't fool with them though.

We've researched the local schools and we supposedly have a good community college here. DS will likely go there for a year or two and then transfer to a nearby four year college that he really likes. DS is a little shaky on what he wants to major in and throwing him into a four year program right now doesn't seem like a good idea.

 

[chrisvip]

I think that even a University of Phoenix type of place can work well for certain people depending on what your purpose for going to school is. I personally wouldn't fool with them though.

We've researched the local schools and we supposedly have a good community college here. DS will likely go there for a year or two and then transfer to a nearby four year college that he really likes. DS is a little shaky on what he wants to major in and throwing him into a four year program right now doesn't seem like a good idea.

I am a strong believer of going to a 2 year community college first and then transferring out to a four year university. You save lots of money and energy for the lower division and non-degree-related courses.

 

[ajk912]

Good for VA then. I'm from MD and while they have been working on making things easier to transfer, it's still hard. Montgomery College transfers a lot, some of the other CCs not so much. When I worked admissions fairs I was taught about a lot of our admissions processes, at least for the College of Engineering, so I could provide the best advice possible to parents. I was taught if I was dealing with a parent whose student wasn't admitted, to go to community college, but watch the courses very carefully. Anything beyond basic gen ed and it was a crapshoot if it would transfer, and 2 years, at least for a technical degree was a waste of time because you don't get the kind of specialized courses you need at a CC.

So I'm sure my perspectives are a bit colored, but you really need to be careful if considering CC. Do your research. Don't get into a money trap.

Also if she is a senior in high school now, have you started applications? Do them anyway and decide later. If she decides in April to go it's too late. The universities all have admissions deadlines in November or December, or rarely January. It's better to take a few $$ hit now and have the option of going if come March or so her tune is changing, which it may be. She could even try deferring admission if it's granted and decides a year off would be a better idea. And applying early puts her in for the most scholarships, so this whole question of money may become a non-issue if she gets lucky.

But my advice to get the 4 year still stands. It's very well near required nowadays...

Do you work at a private school? I wouldn't think a public school would make it that difficult to find out what you need to take that will transfer easily. I know Engineering does have a lot of technical courses that community colleges may not offer, but you'd see the pretty clearly on senior institution's website.."Oh, I need Differential Equations next the ID is 2345, the community college doesn't offer that..it probably wouldn't be wise to try to sub in Eng 234 instead?" I would think most people would say, "Ok, I will just take Differential Equations when I hit the senior institution. I will take my required humanities course instead."

I think, no matter what, you need to watch the courses carefully. I don't think that's a reason to dis (ha!) community college, if you were at the senior institution all four years, you wouldn't think you could take 8 English courses and they would all count (unless you were an English major).

 

[cheerforchelsea]

Try a local community college and get a 2 year degree - they have programs that the credits will transfer to a 4 year college if your child decides to go to a 4 year college ....but no one can ever take that piece of paper away once you get that 2 year degree!!

 

[RangerPooh]

I attended a junior college for the first few years as I was on my own to pay for a college education. I started in Natural Resources (have an AS) in this, and found that for most of the jobs that I wanted a 4 year degree was a must. These day's I have a BA as well as a Masters degree, plus teacher certification. I did take out loans and are paying for them and will be for some time. But I knew this going in. The job market is terrible right now, and will be for some time to come.

I would suggest that you explore your options. Consider the community colleges within an hour drive of you and the majors that they offer. This might help her to find something of interest, as well as provide enough of an "away" environment for now, as she might not be going to school with everyone that she graduated with.

While it doesn't hurt to look at 4 year colleges I would have them be goals to aim for in a year or two once she knows what she wants to major in. There's no point of attending a 4 year right away if you don't know what you want to major in, to only find out that what you want is not offered at your school.

As for degree vs. no degree. Consider looking at job descriptions for a variety of career fields. This should give you an idea of the degree of education that employers want. This can vary from a few semesters of college to a Masters degree, to specialty certifications. Additionally, it can influence your advancement level and pay.

 

[disykat]

I think a lot of it depends on your financial situation. My kids know that my the considerable amount of financial support we are planning on extending to each of them "expires" four years after high school graduation.

If they don't want to go, they don't have to. However, if they do, it would make sense to get as much of it done while we're footing the bill as possible.