CNN reporting 12 miners alive!

[bigmerle1966]

I'm wondering if some of this might be a case of wanting to be the first to tell the families that these guys were alive. "Aren't I the greatest in the world because I told everyone first". Get themselves interviewed on all the news stations. Kind of like this:

"What did the rescuers say when they alerted the command center about the men, how did it feel to hear that, how did you let the families know, what was their reaction to the news?" that sort of thing.

 

[poohandwendy]

I'm wondering if some of this might be a case of wanting to be the first to tell the families that these guys were alive. "Aren't I the greatest in the world because I told everyone first". Get themselves interviewed on all the news stations. Kind of like this:

"What did the rescuers say when they alerted the command center about the men, how did it feel to hear that, how did you let the families know, what was their reaction to the news?" that sort of thing.

I think that is sort of critical to assume there was any agenda involved in the spreading of the erroneous news (even an agenda as benign as ego). I think all involved were under a great deal of stress and exhausted. They were really, really hoping for the best and when they heard something that 'seemed' to be good news, they were bubbling over with it.

 

[Tigger_Magic]

I think that is sort of critical to assume there was any agenda involved in the spreading of the erroneous news (even an agenda as benign as ego). I think all involved were under a great deal of stress and exhausted. They were really, really hoping for the best and when they heard something that 'seemed' to be good news, they were bubbling over with it.

The all news channels have a clear agenda and that's to be the first one on the air with the news. Why else do they spend time and effort developing their "Breaking News" banners to splash all over the screen?

Whether it was stress or exhaustion or whatever, there is no excuse for:

1) The mining company knowing 20 minutes after the rumors started that they were not true and saying NOTHING for 3 hours

2) The governor leaving the church giving a thumbs up signal and saying "believe in miracles"

3) CNN broadcasting an interview with an alleged nurse who claimed to have treated some rescued miners (did she go down into the mine to do this?)

4) All the media reporting the rumor as fact without taking the time to check it out

Being first may be a good thing, but being correct is much more important.

 

[bsnyder]

It seems Katrina taught us nothing about the propensity to miscommunicate during crisis management. And while the mining officials and government agencies deserve their share of the blame in this situation, it's pathetic that the news agencies will once again refuse to hold themselves accountable for any of their own missteps. They'll play the innocent victim.

An interesting webpage that shows the front page of the daily newspapers across the country:

http://www.newseum.org/todaysfrontpages/

click on any of the icons to see the newspage.

 

[Geoff_M]

The mining company CEO had the responsibility to do whatever was necessary to squelch any unfounded rumors.

What information was he supposed to use to squelch the rumor? Though it appears that he knew after 20 minutes that all wasn't well as first reported, he still didn't have enough information to communicate what the story was. What was he supposed to update them with? "Hold on a minute, it looks like at least some of them are dead... Which ones and how many, we aren't sure of at this point." I also doubt that the command center was in constant contact with the rescue team. Radio communications would have been impossible in that environment and reports are they were using the mine's hardwired communications system. I think it's reasonable to say that the surface was only getting periodic updates.

 

[Tigger_Magic]

What information was he supposed to use to squelch the rumor? Though it appears that he knew after 20 minutes that all wasn't well as first reported, he still didn't have enough information to communicate what the story was. What was he supposed to update them with? "Hold on a minute, it looks like at least some of them are dead... Which ones and how many, we aren't sure of at this point." I also doubt that the command center was in constant contact with the rescue team. Radio communications would have been impossible in that environment and reports are they were using the mine's hardwired communications system. I think it's reasonable to say that the surface was only getting periodic updates.

In post #70, Miss Jasmine wrote a perfect update that the mining company CEO could have easily used to squelch the rampaging rumor.

"I know there is rumor that the 12 miners have survived. We cannot confirm it at this time. We do have the rescuers in that area, the men have been located, but we are still assessing their conditions, and as soon as more information becomes available, I will hold another brieifing. Again, at this time I cannot confirm the status of the miners. I still remain optomistic, but it's important that we proceed with caution until we have all the information. I ask that the media stand-by since more information should be shortly forthcoming."

Note that this clearly identifies the information as a rumor; it indicates the the status of the miners CANNOT be confirmed and tells the media that as more information is available it will be released. There is nothing in this quote that could not have been said immediately upon realizing that the rumor was about that all the miners were alive.

Again, it is about being prepared to handle a crisis and it is obvious this CEO and the company is definitely not prepared to handle one.

 

[Geoff_M]

In post #70, Miss Jasmine wrote a perfect update that the mining company CEO could have easily used to squelch the rampaging rumor.

Seeing as how the families were already high-five'ing each other and celebrating and the world was already cheering, how would this have made the situation any better or worse? How would throwing uncertainty into the situation have lessened the chaos and emotions of when the final outcome was announced? Twenty minutes, three hours... how is the reversal of fortunes any different to these people?

 

[Tigger_Magic]

Seeing as how the families were already high-five'ing each other and celebrating and the world was already cheering, how would this have made the situation any better or worse? How would thowing uncertainty into the situation have lessened the chaos and emotions of when the final outcome was announced?

It would have indicated -- a lot sooner than 3 hours later -- that the actual status of the miners had NOT been confirmed. The statement says very clearly that the company cannot confirm that the miners survived; they are trying to assess their condition. It is a very diplomatic way of saying "Hey people -- hold off on the celebrating, because we are not sure these guys are alive or dead yet."

Rather than maintaining silence and allowing the families to continue to believe and celebrate that their men were alive, this would have given everyone, including the media, a much needed cold splash of reality when it was needed most. If I were in the CEO's shoes, I would choose to keep things uncertain until absolutely sure rather than allow people to celebrate for 3 hours only to dash their hopes.

 

[Sk8Leigh]

Seeing as how the families were already high-five'ing each other and celebrating and the world was already cheering, how would this have made the situation any better or worse? How would throwing uncertainty into the situation have lessened the chaos and emotions of when the final outcome was announced? Twenty minutes, three hours... how is the reversal of fortunes any different to these people?

Well at least then the families wouldn't have been so happy for 3 hours only to have it yanked away from them. I think it would have been better to have been told ASAP that there was a miscommunication and that they were working on getting to the truth, than getting slapped in the face with the truth hours later.

I can see how the families were mistakenly told the information right away, but I think the worst part of this is that the company did nothing to clear up the problem as soon as they realized what had happened.

 

[jonestavern]

In post #70, Miss Jasmine wrote a perfect update that the mining company CEO could have easily used to squelch the rampaging rumor. Note that this clearly identifies the information as a rumor; it indicates the the status of the miners CANNOT be confirmed and tells the media that as more information is available it will be released. There is nothing in this quote that could not have been said immediately upon realizing that the rumor was about that all the miners were alive.

Again, it is about being prepared to handle a crisis and it is obvious this CEO and the company is definitely not prepared to handle one.

the only thing I would add is a slight change to 'assessing their conditions'
I would substitute it with, something along the lines of
'due to communication difficulties it is impossible at this time, to determine if there are survivors'
So sad & I do believe the company & the state & media (did all 3 not have a resposibility to confirm, also?) handled the situation less than well. Still, I cannot imagine having to be the one to break the truth to these poor relatives & friends.
As for the nurse or Dr interviewed via phone on CNN, I believe she was very clear in that she spoke for only that 1 miner they actually treated. But perhaps there were others who gave interviews.

so very sad

Jean

 

[poohandwendy]

I am sure many things could have been done differently. What I see is many, many people seriously risking their lives when there was very little hope of anyone being alive. I see many people who desperately wanted good news. I see this as a miscommunication...a mistake, not a fatal one...but an emotional roolercoaster one. You know, something that reminds us that we are human beings. I do not see anything that suggests that anyone was spreading rumor purposely.

I think this happened the same way any miscommunication happens. I think desperation for good news (and probably exhaustion) made this miscommunication spread out of control. I have seen nothing to suggest that anyone involved did not have the best interests of everyone at heart.

I think it is a shame that THIS is what people are discussing. The real story is the acts of heroism (this rescue effort was very dangerous), the unbelievable odds the one survivor seems to be beating and the issues of WHY this accident happened and what can be done to keep miners more safe.

JMHO

 

[Geoff_M]

And I would be willing to bet that the news would have been as big a blow to the emotional guts, after being told "all is well", of the families regardless of whether it was 20 minutes or three hours. You're also assuming that the CEO didn't in fact know that at least some of the miners had shown no signs of life when the secondary report was made 20 minutes later. I think it's easy for us to set here and second guess the CEO. If I had information that at least some of the miners were reported as dead, I don't think I could just go before the cameras and say with a straight face "hold on, we aren't sure of their conditions just yet" if I knew that statement wasn't fully truthful. I personally can understand the desire to hold off for a period of time until a full accounting could be made.

I think it is a shame that THIS is what people are discussing. The real story is the acts of heroism (this rescue effort was very dangerous), the unbelievable odds the one survivor seems to be beating and the issues of WHY this accident happened and what can be done to keep miners more safe.

Very true... It's not much comfort to the families of the dead, but one's better than none. But if history is repeated even that "lucky" one will have a lot of tough times ahead. If I recall, follow-up reports on the miners that were pulled out of the Pennsylvania mine back in 2002 show that several of them suffered emotional, family, and financial problems after the spotlights turned away from them.

 

[Tigger_Magic]

I am sure many things could have been done differently. What I see is many, many people seriously risking their lives when there was very little hope of anyone being alive. I see many people who desperately wanted good news. I see this as a miscommunication...a mistake, not a fatal one...but an emotional roolercoaster one. You know, something that reminds us that we are human beings. I do not see anything that suggests that anyone was spreading rumor purposely.

I don't believe anyone has suggested that anyone did anything as heinous as deliberately spreading false information. Everyone seems to agree that this was a horrible miscommunication.

I think this happened the same way any miscommunication happens. I think desperation for good news (and probably exhaustion) made this miscommunication spread out of control. I have seen nothing to suggest that anyone involved did not have the best interests of everyone at heart.

The road to you-know-where is paved with good intentions. There were some incredibly bad errors of judgment made by too many people in this tragedy. What is worse, I fear, is that few, if any, will learn anything from this experience.

I think it is a shame that THIS is what people are discussing. The real story is the acts of heroism (this rescue effort was very dangerous), the unbelievable odds the one survivor seems to be beating and the issues of WHY this accident happened and what can be done to keep miners more safe.

JMHO

This is a legimate topic of discussion, especially as it relates to how the surviving family members were treated, how the media reacted in a euphoria-enduced frenzy, how the CEO stayed mum, how the governor encouraged the rumor to spread.

There are many lessons to be learned from this experience, but not if they are swept under the rug and forgotten (yet again).

 

[poohandwendy]

I don't believe anyone has suggested that anyone did anything as heinous as deliberately spreading false information. Everyone seems to agree that this was a horrible miscommunication. The road to you-know-where is paved with good intentions. There were some incredibly bad errors of judgment made by too many people in this tragedy. What is worse, I fear, is that few, if any, will learn anything from this experience. This is a legimate topic of discussion, especially as it relates to how the surviving family members were treated, how the media reacted in a euphoria-enduced frenzy, how the CEO stayed mum, how the governor encouraged the rumor to spread.

There are many lessons to be learned from this experience, but not if they are swept under the rug and forgotten (yet again).

I didn't say that it was not a legitimate discussion. I was merely stating my opinion. I think is a shame that the focus is on the erroneous reports.

I disagree that there were 'incredibly' bad errors of judgement. This was an emotionally charged situation for ALL involved. I think pretty much everyone was exhausted and stressed out, waiting and hoping and praying. They made mistakes by not verifying the info. Everyone thought they were getting factual information from reliable sources. It is a shame it wasn't.

I just think this aspect of the story is as insidious as suggested. People are human, it happens. I am sure they feel awful about it. The family members erroneously had a few extra hours of false hope...the end result is still the same.

 

[Tigger_Magic]

And I would be willing to bet that the news would have been as big a blow to the emotional guts, after being told "all is well", of the families regardless of whether it was 20 minutes or three hours. You're also assuming that the CEO didn't in fact know that at least some of the miners had shown no signs of life when the secondary report was made 20 minutes later. I think it's easy for us to set here and second guess the CEO. If I had information that at least some of the miners were reported as dead, I don't think I could just go before the cameras and say with a straight face "hold on, we aren't sure of their conditions just yet." I personally can understand the desire to hold off for a period of time unless a full accounting can be made.

Given the company's recent history, I am not so willing to cut this CEO much, if any, slack. Consider:

From MSNBC...

Since October, the U.S. Mine Safety and Health Administration issued 50 citations to the Sago mine, in central West Virginia, including for accumulation of combustible materials such as coal dust and loose coal.

In 2005, the Sago mine lost 17 days of production as a result of non-fatal accidents. The national average for that type of mine is 6.5. In 2004 the mine lost 15.9 days, compared with a national average of 5.7.

Price said the recent citations were mostly for minor violations. “They were not so egregious that they had to shut down the mine. Historically, coal-mining was much more risky.”

This is a company that appears to have a rather lax attitude toward safety and concern for their employees, not that this is unique to this company. But with a shut-down record 3 times that of the national average... this is not a company I am inclined to offer the benefit of the doubt.

 

[OhMari]

I know they have that exhbit at Museum of Science and Industry... didnt know the Field Musuem had it too....

Such a tragic event.

Sorry, it was the Museum of Science and Industry, I get the 2 confused, I hadn't been there is 25 years. My 2 older college kids were very fascinated with the whole exhibit. They didn't know people worked in coal mines either anymore. It is something to check out.

 

[Tigger_Magic]

I didn't say that it was not a legitimate discussion. I was merely stating my opinion. I think is a shame that the focus is on the erroneous reports.

I disagree that there were 'incredibly' bad errors of judgement. This was an emotionally charged situation for ALL involved. I think pretty much everyone was exhausted and stressed out, waiting and hoping and praying. They made mistakes by not verifying the info. Everyone thought they were getting factual information from reliable sources. It is a shame it wasn't.

I think in light of what happened and the concern you expressed for the surviving families, your last sentence should win the "Understatement of the Year" award. It goes way beyond just being a "shame."

I just think this aspect of the story is as insidious as suggested. People are human, it happens. I am sure they feel awful about it. The family members erroneously had a few extra hours of false hope...the end result is still the same.

So because 12 miners ended up dead after all it's all ok? What I find to be almost as tragic as the deaths of these poor men is the lack of any apology of any kind from anyone -- the CEO, the company, the governor, or the media -- for their part in this fiasco.

 

[Geoff_M]

This is a company that appears to have a rather lax attitude toward safety and concern for their employees, not that this is unique to this company. But with a shut-down record 3 times that of the national average... this is not a company I am inclined to offer the benefit of the doubt.

I agree that the inspection records of the mine are an eyebrow raiser. I also wasn't impressed when the violations were mentioned in the media and in response the company said "If the mine wasn't safe, the government would shut us down." However, there was nothing to be gained by the mine company as the events unfolded as most of us slept last night. The acceptance or aviodance of the "blame" for the communication breakdown doesn't help or hurt anyone.

 

[BuckNaked]

I think in light of what happened and the concern you expressed for the surviving families, your last sentence should win the "Understatement of the Year" award. It goes way beyond just being a "shame." So because 12 miners ended up dead after all it's all ok? What I find to be almost as tragic as the deaths of these poor men is the lack of any apology of any kind from anyone -- the CEO, the company, the governor, or the media -- for their part in this fiasco.

Who exactly would you like to see an apology from? I'm truly confused as to who you think is to blame for the incorrect information coming out.

 

[poohandwendy]

So because 12 miners ended up dead after all it's all ok?

of course not. But, I would venture a guess that had the information been reversed and they were alive after being reported dead, that this would be a non-issue. Or at least only a very small part of the discussion. They are not dead because of the false information spread. The focus, IMHO, should be on why they are dead and what can be done to prevent more deaths.

I am not saying it isn't horrible that they thought their family members were alive, when they weren't. I am saying that I think it was human error, which happens. The only way it would be what I call 'outrageous' is if it was done purposely. I just think there are bigger issues here.

What I find to be almost as tragic as the deaths of these poor men is the lack of any apology of any kind from anyone -- the CEO, the company, the governor, or the media -- for their part in this fiasco.

I have heard more than one apology from several different people involved(the governor apologized in an interview I was listening to this morning). I think they are all sincerely and deeply saddened that this happened and that they were a part in adding to the confusion.