Cheating

[FlightlessDuck]

I was never in National Honor Society, but I was under the impression that the rules for entry and dismissal would be written an enforced either by some sort of national group (hence the name), or the local chapter. I don't know why the school administration would be involved.

 

[Toad_Passenger]

I was never in National Honor Society, but I was under the impression that the rules for entry and dismissal would be written an enforced either by some sort of national group (hence the name), or the local chapter. I don't know why the school administration would be involved.

National sets a general set of standards, but local chapters are free to enact their own standards, which are supposed to be in line with the National laws. Since there is no true, direct oversight, politics definitely come into play when extending invitations to join.

ETA: From Wiki:

The NHS chapter establishes guidelines for selection that are based upon a student’s performance in the areas of scholarship, service, leadership, and character. Specific standards for these four criteria may vary from one school to the next.

 

[kamik86]

at my school the NHS was a joke... I don't even think I put it in my college application that I was in it. All you had to do was have a certain GPA, nothing else mattered at all. Thus in this scenario if the punishment for cheating was a 0 on a paper, but the paper wasn't enough lower the grade in the class so much that it would cause the GPA to drop below the needed level they would still be in.

 

[castleview]

at my school the NHS was a joke... I don't even think I put it in my college application that I was in it. All you had to do was have a certain GPA, nothing else mattered at all. Thus in this scenario if the punishment for cheating was a 0 on a paper, but the paper wasn't enough lower the grade in the class so much that it would cause the GPA to drop below the needed level they would still be in.

This. My husband was in the NHS and said it was a joke. A good GPA after the first semester freshman year gave you a life long appointment…and he doesn't think anyone actually did any community service.

 

[disney junky]

Perhaps you are placing too much importance on NHS membership. If you do some Googling you will find out that most Universities don't place any sort of weight on NHS membership. The reason is that every School District seems to have different standards (some political, some social, some even racial) behind how they create their memberships. This has left some students gain membership in some Districts, but not in others. With such, seemingly arbitrary rules governing membership, the NHS does not have the clout that it may have once held.

In fact, from my quick research (Google, not at all scientific), none of the Top 25 schools seem to even care if you mention it on your applications.

I'm not naive. Because an organization doesn't represent something it claims to doesn't mean it shouldn't. I hope that makes some sense. If we, on the occasions where there is a provable offense, take action, wouldn't it then begin to restore the credibility of an organization who, from posts here, seems to no longer be anything but a joke? But why is it a joke? Because people who don't get in threaten to sue, or parents threaten to sue, or advisers and administrators back down from these threats. Then why exist at all? Because enough kids/parents think this has meaning. They wear the stole on commencement night. They do put in on their applications. At the least, a college must consider it an activity since there is a service component to it. But, we digress.

If this kid were removed from NHS, and not because I think that's what should happen, but because I think that's what NHS would deem appropriate both at the local and national level (as a former adviser), I believe he'd get the message that his academic dishonesty is clearly serious.

 

[WDSearcher]

The kid is out of my class and has been punished academically. My frustration isn't with the kid. It's with the administration's inability to take a firm stand on an issue as clear cut as academic dishonesty as it relates to an organization which is based on the qualities of scholarship, service, leadership and character. I appreciate your concern. If bitterness seems to permeate my posts, I didn't intend it that way. I am frustrated. It happens. I vent on an anonymous discussion board, and it's over. I wish this student no harm, no ill will. I struggled with having to take action because as happens in small communities, I am friends with his parents. And that's the unfortunate side issue. My struggle at this point is the integrity of National Honor Society. It shouldn't be a lifelong appointment, rather, membership should be something that you exemplify throughout your high school career. Someone who is guilty of academic dishonesty has no place in NHS. Sure, there are kids who cheat and get away with it. "Everybody does it." His transcript will not show he cheated. But his college applications will still reflect membership in NHS. To me, something is wrong.

Sounds like you've just found a new little "project." If you think its wrong and you want to change it, then ... well ... what's stopping you? You may not make any inroad for this one kid, but who's to say you can't affect change for many others. Surely there are other teachers nationally who feel as you do. Find them. Linked In, Facebook, whatever. Someone somewhere has likely done some preliminary research on how widespread plagarism is ... if it's on the rise in the Internet age or not, etc. Pull together those ideas and your own frustrations into a proposal to amend the NHS charter. Do what you would tell your students to do if they found an injustice.

What to see it changed? Go fix it!

 

[MrsPete]

I'm glad to say that our standards are a little higher here:

Not too long ago a student lied to me. He's not in my class, and the subject wasn't even important -- but it made me mad when I found out he'd lied. By chance, I was talking to the honor society sponsor that day, and I decided to mention it. He was kicked out.

Also, our students are required to do 16 hours of community service per semester to remain members (and to wear the cords at graduation).

 

[sparklynails23]

I think a zero on the paper is punishment enough.

 

[kirbsam]

I think a zero on the paper is punishment enough.

i agree. and i also agree that we give a kid a second chance before we start kicking him out of things. i am not for giving someone a chance over and over again, but the kid cheated, hopefully, the zero made him learn his lesson and he will be a better person because of it.

if he learned his lesson, i see no reason to keep heaping on the punishments. you gave him the zero. time for you to let it go. there are many injustices in the world that we have no control over.

 

[rie'smom]

Her mother is a college professor and didn't have any problem with her daughters blatant plagiarism.

This doesn't surprise me. Many college professors have their assistants do all of the research and write the papers that help them gain tenure. They get to the top and don't do the work and claiming someone else's work as their own so I would guess they don't see a problem with their children doing that too.

at my school the NHS was a joke... I don't even think I put it in my college application that I was in it. All you had to do was have a certain GPA, nothing else mattered at all. Thus in this scenario if the punishment for cheating was a 0 on a paper, but the paper wasn't enough lower the grade in the class so much that it would cause the GPA to drop below the needed level they would still be in.

When I was in high school in the 70s, the NHS was a HUGE deal on college applications. However after reading the OP and some of the responses I can see why colleges don't give it weight anymore.
Grades were not the only criteria. We had to be honest, very involved in
school and our community. We had a student court and cheating was viewed as a serious offense. There would have been no doubt that the offender would have been kicked out of not only the Honor Society but also all clubs and sports teams.

 

[disney junky]

Sounds like you've just found a new little "project." If you think its wrong and you want to change it, then ... well ... what's stopping you? You may not make any inroad for this one kid, but who's to say you can't affect change for many others. Surely there are other teachers nationally who feel as you do. Find them. Linked In, Facebook, whatever. Someone somewhere has likely done some preliminary research on how widespread plagarism is ... if it's on the rise in the Internet age or not, etc. Pull together those ideas and your own frustrations into a proposal to amend the NHS charter. Do what you would tell your students to do if they found an injustice.

What to see it changed? Go fix it!

Those of us in the field of education know. There is no cause here; however, there are attempts to crack down on this. See plagiarism.org.
Sorry. My call in life isn't to end plagiarism. It's to teach. I don't call this an injustice. Innocent people aren't being hurt. Guilty people aren't being held accountable.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

To me, this is much ado about nothing. Kids have always cheated. In my time, students reworded what they read, but they still used what they read instead of their own words. The internet has allowed copy/paste as well as the complete sharing of work, so this took a turn to more overt methods, but the old school method was cheating, too.

To be honest, almost none of the subject matter plagarized is going to make the slightest difference in the long term development of a high school kid. Teachers would like to believe that everything that we teach our children is essential, but that isn't even close to true.

The only real question to me is whether this kid has shown himself to be a cheater across subjects. If so, he will learn the hard way that life doesn't allow for this after school. In the real world, we sink or swim on our merits, not those of others. People who don't learn to work hard early usually suffer in life.

So, who cares about whether or not he gets to stay in the NHS. I was in the NHS through school. It was never taken into account when I chose my school, and has never been taken into account since. I knew it was just an empty organization then, and it still is today. I didn't do a thing to try to "earn" being in the NHS - never gave it a thought.

 

[disney junky]

To me, this is much ado about nothing. Kids have always cheated. In my time, students reworded what they read, but they still used what they read instead of their own words. The internet has allowed copy/paste as well as the complete sharing of work, so this took a turn to more overt methods, but the old school method was cheating, too.

To be honest, almost none of the subject matter plagarized is going to make the slightest difference in the long term development of a high school kid. Teachers would like to believe that everything that we teach our children is essential, but that isn't even close to true.

The only real question to me is whether this kid has shown himself to be a cheater across subjects. If so, he will learn the hard way that life doesn't allow for this after school. In the real world, we sink or swim on our merits, not those of others. People who don't learn to work hard early usually suffer in life.

So, who cares about whether or not he gets to stay in the NHS. I was in the NHS through school. It was never taken into account when I chose my school, and has never been taken into account since. I knew it was just an empty organization then, and it still is today. I didn't do a thing to try to "earn" being in the NHS - never gave it a thought.

So getting kicked out of college for committing academic dishonesty is much ado about nothing? wow. Losing credit on a course is much ado about nothing. The 'kids have always cheated' argument doesn't work for me. I don't think everything I teach is essential. What I do think is essential is honesty and integrity. If a kid learns nothing but that, I've accomplished something.

Generalize much?

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

So getting kicked out of college for committing academic dishonesty is much ado about nothing?

We are talking about a kid who did this once in HS, not a college kid. It isn't me who is reaching, here.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

... What I do think is essential is honesty and integrity. If a kid learns nothing but that, I've accomplished something...

Not your job. Focus on your job.

 

[disney junky]

We are talking about a kid who did this once in HS, not a college kid. It isn't me who is reaching, here.

Twice. In a college class for college credit though taught in the high school. But, I guess I'm reaching.

I believe I can point to the chapters in my textbooks to demonstrate to you that, yes, my job is to teach academic honesty and integrity.

But, I guess I'm reaching.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

...But, I guess I'm reaching.

Yes, you are. You said that this was addressed academically. You still want this person "punished" in some other way that you deem to be acceptable.

Yes - you are reaching.

 

[Toad_Passenger]

Yes, you are. You said that this was addressed academically. You still want this person "punished" in some other way that you deem to be acceptable.

Yes - you are reaching.

This. I'm trying to figure out exactly what else the OP wants done to this student?

As has been stated, NHS doesn't hold the credibility it once did. Because of that, this student probably couldn't care less whether or not they are wearing an NHS cord on Graduation Day. Chances are, it's not even on this student's radar about being kicked out of it. So, really, what will it accomplish in the end?

The one thing that does affect this student and their future college admissions, would be their grade, which, was properly addressed as a 0 for the plagiarized assignment. Not really sure what else could/should be done?

 

[disney junky]

Yes, you are. You said that this was addressed academically. You still want this person "punished" in some other way that you deem to be acceptable.

Yes - you are reaching.

I believe that this student should be removed from National Honor Society.

 

[WDSearcher]

Those of us in the field of education know. There is no cause here; however, there are attempts to crack down on this. See plagiarism.org.
Sorry. My call in life isn't to end plagiarism. It's to teach. I don't call this an injustice. Innocent people aren't being hurt. Guilty people aren't being held accountable.

OK. For the record, though, I never said that your "call in life" needed to be to end plagiarism. I said it could be an interesting project. You don't have to devote your life to something to effect change.