Characters protesting

[hookedonears]

There are many states (like the one that I work in) that are not OSHA states. In these states many workers are exempt from OSHA regulations unless they are specifically adopted by the state. Even where OSHA regulates workplace safety, they do a very poor job of doing so and most of what they do is reactionary, as in after a death or serious injury has occurred. The incidence of injury/deaths in union workplaces is significantly lower than in non-union workplaces. Also, it is not the unions fault that jobs have moved out of our country. That lies with these supposed "fair trade" agreements which do not account for deplorable wages and working conditions elsewhere coupled with corparate greed which take advantage of them. Surely you dont think we should have 7 year olds working in factories for pennies a day so we can compete with other countries (or maybe you do).

The attitudes expressed in this thread are some of the biggest reasons that unions are necessary. A complete lack of respect for the working men and woman of this country. This idea that if they don't like it they should take the steps to get a better job misses the point. Someone has to do the job and they deserve a decent wage for doing it. noone is saying that a laborer should make the same as a CEO. Jobs which require more skill, education, training or involve more risk should pay more. That doesn't mean the growing gap between the top earners and the bottom earners isn't a huge problem.

I'm wrong about alot of things and maybe this one too, but OSHA is Federal and no state is exempt. There are numerous federal regulations that protect workers safety, wages, working hours, age, etc. You can go down the line. Many, many years ago, these regulations were not regulated and that's why unions came into being. Now there a burden and a leach on the health of American businesses.

 

[Wadecool]

Dude, first of all, whatever that line is about the medical records, it is a straw man, I don't even know where that came from.

Then you wrote -



Did they teach you to think critically or to form a logical argument?

Student loans. With that newborn at home, you did it all by yourself. With sheer determination and your will power. And certainly without the government backing up the student loans you needed. Because you *FOUND* those loans, just found them, just sitting there in the cabbage patch.

Now, was that a public university?

Listen, You are right. If someone doesn't like the way they are treated at
work, one thing they can do is find another job. Like you, they can go to back
to school, or not. ANOTHER thing that they could do is organize with their co-
workers who agree with them and protest. Its a free country, they can do
whichever one they would like, not only the one that you think worked for you.
Amazing how freedom works.

Yeah, that was a public university and those student loans are backed by the federal government. And guess who had to pay back those loans? Thats right, you guessed it. And yeah, that was a real, live newborn at home and everything. I've even got the baby pictures to prove it. You are correct that we have the right to protest & organize for better employment. How I got out of a dead end, low paying job was just one route toward improving my circumstances, and I certainly could have chosen to fight that employer for
better wages, hours, etc. I just chose the route I had more control over.

 

[Wadecool]

My reference to beating a dead horse was referring to a particular point that you, as well as a few others, still choose not to recognize or address. A point that I didn't address in the post you quoted here.

If your argument is that the wages of laborers should be lowered to the point of other countries in order to avoid outsourcing, than yes I guess those statistics could be used to bolster an argument against unions. I am hoping (and was giving you the benefit of the doubt) that you do not favor such an action. I am arguing against your statement that unions no longer help workers and have outlived their usefulness. As well as your apparent belief that workers should not try to improve the pay in their current jobs when they believe it to be substandard. Even beyond the statistics, one of the most important roles of a union is to protect from dismissal without cause.

You can certainly use the extreme example to discredit my view if you want, but it actually ends up doing the opposite. Of course, American workers deserve a much higher wage than other countries and there are companies that pay quality wages without needing a union. I do think workers need protections against wrongful terminations, but we have federal laws now to protect workers in that regard, and I acknowledge that unions are
responsible for those laws being enacted. But, like I said before, INMO, unions
are just not relevant to the degree they used to be. Twenty years from now, either you'll be right and unions will be just as powerful or I'll be right and they won't. Look, I recognize that you're obviously a union supporter and I'm
obviously not. Agree to disagree.

 

[hookedonears]

Disney could, at the very least pay these people a living wage..No one is saying pay them 18.00 an hr, but maybe at least 11.oo would help alot! Alot of the CMs make less than 7.75 per hr..and most ar Pt employees which mean no guaretted number of hrs per week and no health benefits..

First of all, pay is usually a function of how difficult it is to replace that employee. Second,

Lets try to quantify this a little bit. THESE ARE FICTICOUS NUMBERS. Disney employees approximately 60,000 people in the Orlando area. Of that 60,000, approx. 45,000 are in the lower income bracket. Lets say 8.00 per hour. If they give them a $3 per hour raise, that would be 3 x 2000 hr/yr x 45000. That would be $270,000,000 per year. Okay, that would only be Orlando employees. What about all of the other employees around the world, and what about the supervisors and managers, are we going to leave them out? The number of hours (2000) may be a little high, but this total number doesn't include overtime.

Okay, whose going to pay the cost? Stockholders? They say no, so the stock drops. The guest? You got it. The stock would drop significantly anyway and investment investment into the corporation would dry up. The cost of going to Disney would go up significantly, fewer people would be going and that means the stock drops further.

 

[Planogirl]

Lets try to quantify this. THESE ARE FICTICOUS NUMBERS. Disney employees approximately 60,000 people in the Orlando area. Of that 60,000, approx. 45,000 are in the lower income bracket. Lets say 8.00 per hour. If they give them a $3 per hour raise, that would be 3 x 2000 hr/yr x 45000. That would be $270,000,000 per year. Okay, that would only be Orlando employees. What about all of the other employees around the world, and what about the supervisors and managers, are we going to leave them out? The number of hours (2000) may be a little high, but this doesn't include overtime.

Okay, whose going to pay the cost? Stockholders? They say no, so the stock drops. The guest? You got it.

Aren't an awful lot of those employees part-time? Not that that still isn't a large amount. Also, do wages for these lower income people go up due to seniority? I never see anyone address that.

 

[DonaldTDuck]

You can certainly use the extreme example to discredit my view if you want, but it actually ends up doing the opposite. Of course, American workers deserve a much higher wage than other countries and there are companies that pay quality wages without needing a union. I do think workers need protections against wrongful terminations, but we have federal laws now to protect workers in that regard, and I acknowledge that unions are
responsible for those laws being enacted. But, like I said before, INMO, unions
are just not relevant to the degree they used to be. Twenty years from now, either you'll be right and unions will be just as powerful or I'll be right and they won't. Look, I recognize that you're obviously a union supporter and I'm
obviously not. Agree to disagree.

Get rid of the unions and see how fast those laws start to disappear. Our new idiot Senator will try to get rid of them anyway, but with the unions, he'll fail.

 

[hookedonears]

Aren't an awful lot of those employees part-time? Not that that still isn't a large amount. Also, do wages for these lower income people go up due to seniority? I never see anyone address that.

I think that the point is that what seems like a simple thing would cost Disney and everyone a whole lot.

 

[ftballfan7]

I'm wrong about alot of things and maybe this one too, but OSHA is Federal and no state is exempt. There are numerous federal regulations that protect workers safety, wages, working hours, age, etc. You can go down the line. Many, many years ago, these regulations were not regulated and that's why unions came into being. Now there a burden and a leach on the health of American businesses.

In 27 states, public sector employers are exempt from OSHA standards. This means no OSHA protections for Firefighters, Police Officers, Teachers, Sanitation Workers, etc.

Only if your state has adopted OSHA regulations which include public safety employers (referred to as OSHA States) are they covered. I am a Firefighter in New Hampshire - not an OSHA State. When they say live free or die, they mean it.

 

[ftballfan7]

You can certainly use the extreme example to discredit my view if you want, but it actually ends up doing the opposite. Of course, American workers deserve a much higher wage than other countries and there are companies that pay quality wages without needing a union. I do think workers need protections against wrongful terminations, but we have federal laws now to protect workers in that regard, and I acknowledge that unions are
responsible for those laws being enacted. But, like I said before, INMO, unions
are just not relevant to the degree they used to be. Twenty years from now, either you'll be right and unions will be just as powerful or I'll be right and they won't. Look, I recognize that you're obviously a union supporter and I'm
obviously not. Agree to disagree.

Federal laws do not protect workers from termination without cause. There are laws which protect workers from wrongful termination under certain circumstances (whistle blowers, age discrimination, racial discrimination to name a few). They do not protect an employee with 18 years experience from being terminated without cause to be replaced by a new employee who will work for less. Nor do they protect an employee from being terminated simply because someone doesn't like them. They are at-will employees and have no protection what-so-ever.

I do agree that I am unlikely to change your mind about unions and you are not going to change mine. Although I certainately agree that unions are not as strong as they once were. I just see this as a bad thing and responsible for alot of the problems that today's workers face.

 

[ben1993]

Maybe if they were in real costumes and right outside the parks I would disagree with it, but I totally support them in their protests to be honest. CM's can't be paid enough in my opinion, and having them take home less on their paycheck each month, and the corporate suits (I'm looking at you Bob Iger) take home multi million dollar bonuses makes me sick.

 

[collegejunkie]

whoops, double post - sorry

 

[collegejunkie]

i haven't read through the thread, as it's loads of pages, but i did skim some and i agree with the idea that if you're not doing something hard, then you are replaceable and i don't think the CMs should protest. before deciding to work there, they are told what pay they will be receiving and what benefits, if any. if they don't like it, they can go elsewhere. there are a zillion other theme parks and there are other jobs out there. the issue is that they're not skilled workers. even if a few hundred of them quit, there are people waiting to fill their spots. it's not difficult to sweep the sidewalk or serve hot dogs. until they are more valuable, they should not complain. they can be proactive and find another jobs or build their skills.

 

[hookedonears]

In 27 states, public sector employers are exempt from OSHA standards. This means no OSHA protections for Firefighters, Police Officers, Teachers, Sanitation Workers, etc.

Only if your state has adopted OSHA regulations which include public safety employers (referred to as OSHA States) are they covered. I am a Firefighter in New Hampshire - not an OSHA State. When they say live free or die, they mean it.

States are required to meet OSHA minimum standards. Many states have laws that prohibit these employees from striking, because they are considered vital services. They have worker protection standards, however that in many cases, go way above and beyond private industry requirements. This discussion was more about the necessity for unions in corporate America.

 

[Wadecool]

i haven't read through the thread, as it's loads of pages, but i did skim some and i agree with the idea that if you're not doing something hard, then you are replaceable and i don't think the CMs should protest. before deciding to work there, they are told what pay they will be receiving and what benefits, if any. if they don't like it, they can go elsewhere. there are a zillion other theme parks and there are other jobs out there. the issue is that they're not skilled workers. even if a few hundred of them quit, there are people waiting to fill their spots. it's not difficult to sweep the sidewalk or serve hot dogs. until they are more valuable, they should not complain. they can be proactive and find another jobs or build their skills.

Well put.

 

[Reddy]

i haven't read through the thread, as it's loads of pages, but i did skim some and i agree with the idea that if you're not doing something hard, then you are replaceable and i don't think the CMs should protest. before deciding to work there, they are told what pay they will be receiving and what benefits, if any. if they don't like it, they can go elsewhere. there are a zillion other theme parks and there are other jobs out there. the issue is that they're not skilled workers. even if a few hundred of them quit, there are people waiting to fill their spots. it's not difficult to sweep the sidewalk or serve hot dogs. until they are more valuable, they should not complain. they can be proactive and find another jobs or build their skills.

Yes, you understand - This gets me about people complaining about Wal-Mart not paying their employees alot. You know when you apply that this isn't a job for someone supporting a family it is a get job so you can get a better one after proved that you can handle it or a job for a mom who is bored.
Why do people think that these jobs are for supporting a family??

 

[imstock]

I am disgusted by the lot of you.

I come to work everyday for $7.70 an hour. I used to make $45,000 annually in another sector. But now I spend my days trying to make your kids happy, and give you reasons to love coming to Disney and your going to disrespect ME by saying I made poor life choices? I am 26 years old, live in a 5 bedroom 4 bathroom house in Davenport, am childless and both my wife and I are professionals (she has a career in Veterinary Medicine) But your right, I choose to come here every morning.

So that your son, your daughter can have a magical moment.

So I can see the smile on their face when I give them pins I paid for.

So you can come here and talk about the fantastic world you get to visit.

But not so that some stranger can enjoy my work, then disrespect me blindly.



Don't forget, these people who made 'poor life choices' are the reason your on this forum. This reply isn't about the money.

I am not looking for attention, I could careless. But I pray someone PMs me with a reason to stay on this forum because right now I am completely disgusted and probably wont stick around.

BTW: Your welcome for censoring my own thread. It wasn't so kind the first time I wrote it.

 

[Maus]

Well maybe you should live some place where there is not that gap and the government makes sure everyone is equal. I really hate the whole notion that the rich are greedy and should pay the price by exorbitant taxes. Many who are rich are that way because of hard work and dedication or because someone in their family worked hard so they didn't have too. The beauty of America is that if you want to do more with your life there are plenty of opportunities to do so and if you want a higher education there are many ways to go about it scholarships, student loans, grants, military and the list goes on.

I am a very big fan of capitalism, but also capitalism has to be regulated (and it is even in USA) and I understand that capitalism also follows ecoomic rules. There can't be full employment for example. If everybody would seek higher education, every job available would ask for a degree. And specialy in capitalism you do not have a choice allways of what you are doing, you have to do what the market demands, qulification and degree or not. There are a lot of hardworking people without an academic degree, and hardwork alone doesn't garantie a better life style. As long as company makes profits there is no reason to not pay livig wages. Not everybody can be a CEO, it takes a lot less of them than all the ants to run a company. And I was talking about the gap getting bigger between poor and rich and this is destroying to capitalism as well.

 

[NYDisneyKid]

Someone (a CM) just told me (like within the last hour) that Iger is out. no longer CEO and left with with a big bonus. True or not? Also seems like Disney can foot the bill for the Chile miners and families (160 people) to stay at WDW for a week and also each given $500 gift cards (lets see,,$500 X 160 people= $80,000,,)plus resort rooms for 160 people, etc,yet cant give the CM's a decent raise??

 

[stitch09]

What costumes I saw one person in some sort of yellow horse outfit?

This comment totally made my day!!

 

[GinnyEmma]

Someone (a CM) just told me (like within the last hour) that Iger is out. no longer CEO and left with with a big bonus. True or not? Also seems like Disney can foot the bill for the Chile miners and families (160 people) to stay at WDW for a week and also each given $500 gift cards (lets see,,$500 X 160 people= $80,000,,)plus resort rooms for 160 people, etc,yet cant give the CM's a decent raise??

The cost of the vacation for the miners is practically nothing. The cost of a raise for 20000 people would be huge. It is their money. They have the right to spend it as they like.

As for the cm above, you made a choice. Either the rewards pay off or not. Someone else would be thrilled to share pins with the kids too. Everyone knows disney
Pay is crap. My son wants to be a mechanical engineer, and mentioned Disney would-be anolace to work. I suggested he get a job that pays 1/3 more and just take trips to the world...