Both of those meals book up at 180 days out for the most part. You're only hope is to try calling a few times a day and hope for a cancellation. Also, check the posts about ADR cancellations in the dining section of the disboards. Good luck!!
Absolutely, you need ADRs for these. You may get lucky and do a walk-up, but I don't think that is very common any more.
Start calling ASAP to try to get in. You may have to go at a less than optimal time, but you always stand a better chance getting in with an ADR than without!!
To get an ADR, call 407-WDW-DINE (407-939-3463), and the CM there will help you
remember to call everyday before you leave, and check at the front desk of you hotel everyday when you are there and if you still don't have an ADR go to the restaurant's desk every time you pass by it to see if they have any openings.
GOOD LUCK!!!