Chapek out - Iger back

[Jrb1979]

Or Disney can just give us back the stuff we had for free and didn't need to pay for? This was the biggest insult to Disney fans

I would even take 2 or 3 free fast pass rides that you can book in advance, and then charge me to add more per day while on site

Or make Genie Plus free in general, and just charge me for LL ( not my ideal situation, cause I think all should be free, but if they won't change it, this is something id deal with )

I don't see that happening. If anything I see them going more to the Universal route minus giving it free to resort guests. IMO Disney messed up with making it available to everyone. They don't have the capacity for that.

 

[GAN]

I totally agree about Eisner. As a kid I really didn't "GET" why somethings got canceled and what was going on with Euro Disney. As an adult, I really get it. For Iger, I honestly see him more as politician and more interested in himself than the company. That is why Disney needs a new CEO.

You have every right to the opinion, but you are pretty far from reality when you claim he cares more about himself than the Company. The guy postponed retirement 4 times or so …kind of disproves your feelings right there

 

[BrianL]

I totally agree about Eisner. As a kid I really didn't "GET" why somethings got canceled and what was going on with Euro Disney. As an adult, I really get it. For Iger, I honestly see him more as politician and more interested in himself than the company. That is why Disney needs a new CEO.

It may be fair that Iger is out for himself, however I think that he understands that what is good for the company is also good for him and also, more importantly, that keeping the fans happy and engaged is good for the company. He does want Disney to succeed AS DISNEY and not as any other soulless corporation. So, even if it's self-serving, he is savvy enough to understand that balance.

 

[HopperFan]

I forgot about the newly introduce dynamic pricing - but if they can do dynamic pricing for park tickets ahead of time, they can do it with Genie+ as well. I'm just thinking if there are a significant amount of complaints about Genie+ and inability to pre-plan, there is maybe a middle ground they can come to which would potentially raise customer satisfaction, which I think Disney may sorely be in need of after Chapek.

I think the Genie+ dynamic will long term find it's groove but I think what they want is the ability to change the price overnight or at least weekly as they watch numbers.

BUT for every person who complains about not being able to pre-plan is another who hates having to make plans in advance and would prefer day of options on a level field. Folks just tend to think their point of view is likely the one they want implemented and assume most think the same way.

In the end you will have the same dissatisfaction just for different reasons. Disney needs to go with what is the most efficient, profitable and least confusing. Disney needs to do what is best for their bottom line. And knowing Disney IT I think they need to keep it simple.

Honestly I don't think it's the idea of Genie+ and the parameters, it is the implementation. What they should have done was keep FP+ but remove the advanced booking. Everyone enters the park on a level playing field BUT you get to pick your times like you did with FP+. It makes it less rigid and easier to plan your day around ADRs etc. Irony is we are PAYING for an inferior product that was once much more functional and FREE.

DAS only gets 2 in advance not 3 and you have to chat with a CM to add them, it isn't like you do it yourself like the way FP+ was. I guess you can get a third one as soon as you enter the park with the normal DAS system. While DAS Advance may not be a big deal to everyone, it may depend on your disability, I do think it does help some people who need the ability to plan their day a little better. I know I've heard from a few people who have children that utilize DAS and have said it really helps them as their children (again it likely depends on the disability) stay at the parks the entire day for one reason or another and it helps to be able to get those 3 rides and then go back to their resort.

Yes thanks for correction. My DS#1 HAS & NEEDS the DAS for many of the attractions. He began using it at age 18 even though he's always been disabled. Disability does not mean you need a DAS. At 18 my son had major medical issues that changed his needs greatly. We have been using the pass for 20 years and I am well versed in it's purpose and operation.

We do not register in advance nor we get the advance times ~ why? At this point I am not comfortable getting the extras. I don't think it is necessary and it gives an advantage that we are always claiming the DAS is not. I have no doubt there are many getting an advance DAS that would never ask for one in person.

Part of my thinking on adding a staying on-site benefit is the assumption that next year will be a different year in regards to travel, the economy and unlimited demand at Disney parks. Disney has already seen a slowdown in their Q4 parks number, they were roughly $100M off analyst expectations ($815M vs an expected $919M) - so if the slowdown has already started, its feasible to think they won't be able to fill the hotels up next year.

Perhaps - we just don't know. Sometimes what happens is that people opt to not travel internationally and Disney is a good replacement. My feeling is that since hotels and parks are different profit centers with different customer base, the offers should reflect that. All park guests should be equal as they have all paid the same to enter. I have no issue with hotel extra park hours because that does not impact the other guests day. I'm fine with the extra days for booking ADRs because often that dining is outside the parks.

And Disney has ways to reward hotel guests with Dining Plan (Free Dining when trying to fill rooms in a slowdown), room discounts, extra magic hours in parks, now they talk of holding back dining slots for them at resorts and they can create discounted packages. All this rewards hotel guests without penalizing park guests.

Since on site guests are some of their most profitable guests, I would think in a recession, Disney would want to do everything to attract those guests first - through perks, etc. Selling AP's again might be another way to get more people into the parks - I know Disney has been at war with APs, but that was a Chapek thing - I wonder if Iger will take the same issue with APs, especially in a recession economy.

Again, hotels and parks are two different profit centers. You can not include what a guest pays for their hotel in talking about most profitable guests. Offsite guests pay for parking, and shop and pay for dining and pay for upsells. There is no reason to believe offsite guests spend less, some might spend more in the parks since they spend less for hotels. AND parks need offsite guests as they provide 2/3rds of the guests.

Chapek was at war with DISNEYLAND AP holders, not Disney World. They are completely two different animals on every level.

 

[Liquidice]

I think the Genie+ dynamic will long term find it's groove but I think what they want is the ability to change the price overnight or at least weekly as they watch numbers.

BUT for every person who complains about not being able to pre-plan is another who hates having to make plans in advance and would prefer day of options on a level field. Folks just tend to think their point of view is likely the one they want implemented and assume most think the same way.

In the end you will have the same dissatisfaction just for different reasons. Disney needs to go with what is the most efficient, profitable and least confusing. Disney needs to do what is best for their bottom line. And knowing Disney IT I think they need to keep it simple.

Honestly I don't think it's the idea of Genie+ and the parameters, it is the implementation. What they should have done was keep FP+ but remove the advanced booking. Everyone enters the park on a level playing field BUT you get to pick your times like you did with FP+. It makes it less rigid and easier to plan your day around ADRs etc. Irony is we are PAYING for an inferior product that was once much more functional and FREE.


Yes thanks for correction. My DS#1 HAS & NEEDS the DAS for many of the attractions. He began using it at age 18 even though he's always been disabled. Disability does not mean you need a DAS. At 18 my son had major medical issues that changed his needs greatly. We have been using the pass for 20 years and I am well versed in it's purpose and operation.

We do not register in advance nor we get the advance times ~ why? At this point I am not comfortable getting the extras. I don't think it is necessary and it gives an advantage that we are always claiming the DAS is not. I have no doubt there are many getting an advance DAS that would never ask for one in person.


Perhaps - we just don't know. Sometimes what happens is that people opt to not travel internationally and Disney is a good replacement. My feeling is that since hotels and parks are different profit centers with different customer base, the offers should reflect that. All park guests should be equal as they have all paid the same to enter. I have no issue with hotel extra park hours because that does not impact the other guests day. I'm fine with the extra days for booking ADRs because often that dining is outside the parks.

And Disney has ways to reward hotel guests with Dining Plan (Free Dining when trying to fill rooms in a slowdown), room discounts, extra magic hours in parks, now they talk of holding back dining slots for them at resorts and they can create discounted packages. All this rewards hotel guests without penalizing park guests.


Again, hotels and parks are two different profit centers. You can not include what a guest pays for their hotel in talking about most profitable guests. Offsite guests pay for parking, and shop and pay for dining and pay for upsells. There is no reason to believe offsite guests spend less, some might spend more in the parks since they spend less for hotels. AND parks need offsite guests as they provide 2/3rds of the guests.

Chapek was at war with DISNEYLAND AP holders, not Disney World. They are completely two different animals on every level.

Thats why I was proposing a hybrid approach - so it isn't solely pre-planning, but you could have the option to do it (only for resort guests and limit the amount of Lightning Lanes you hand out ahead of time so there are still plenty available day of).

Something people on the pre-planning and day-of could potentially get on board with -- or nobody is happy, which I'm always told is a good compromise

I'm not opposed to your idea of picking times day of too though, while I prefer pre-planning, I think something like what you're saying could be an ok compromise.

For the DAS Advance, like I said - I've heard other people say it really helps them out to pre-plan things - where before they may have used FP+ for that pre-planning, DAS Advance now helps them, I can see where it might be useful to some and not others - everyone's situation is different, but I'm glad Disney had the foresight to give people who may need it an option. Although making them wait hours on hold to talk to a person to register for DAS Advance is something I still don't understand.

The recession will hit other parts of the world as well as the USA. International guests to WDW are an important part - and I think you'll see less of them during a recession. Also realize that Disney has become so expensive that often traveling internationally is cheaper than going to Disney. Disney has become one of the most expensive vacations you can take - they've moved on from targeting the middle class working family and tried to price is more like a luxury experience. Luxury experiences tend to be the hardest hit during a recession. Parks operating income has already shown a slowdown in Q4 - we'll see in Disney's Q1 how things are going.

Disney has offered hotel guests park benefits in the past. You prefer that they separate them - but Disney has shown that they can and will do it to entice guests to stay onsite. For example, the 60 day Fastpass+ window was a park benefit offered to on site guests in the past. Even today, being able to buy ILL$ at 7am is a park benefit offered to on site guests - it is kind of a crummy benefit imho but it does give people staying on site an advantage during normal park hours. Bundling is not something new and lots of companies do it. Look at Universal Orlando - they offer an Express Pass to guests staying at their Deluxe hotels. But outside of theme parks, companies offer deals all the time that requires you to be using one of their other products - for example Microsoft has software licensing terms that benefit you if you use their cloud service Azure and penalize you if you use a competitor's cloud service. Bundling can be in violation of anti-trust laws, but only when you have a monopoly or large enough market share that it allows you to leverage a competitive advantage in a different market. Microsoft ran into this when they bundled Internet Explorer for free with Windows.

As far as profitability for on-site guests, on-site guests tend to spend more than guests staying off property - generally because they're in the Disney "bubble". Previously because of Magical Express, many did not have any means of transportation other than using Disney's transportation - but even now, many guests use Mears or Sunshine Flyer to get to the parks and then depend on Disney transportation. I'm sure with all of the data Disney collects they already know this - but during pandemic revenge travel, things were going well enough that they didn't need on site perks. If things slow down as the recession hits (and I think they already are for Disney) - I think we'll see a return to more on site perks - including some that will benefit you in the parks - although I agree the free dining plan is definitely one enticing promotion to many even though I'm not sure it truly saves people money since you usually pay rack rate at the hotel.

I'd also argue Chapek was at war with WDW passholders as well, maybe not to the same degree as he was with DLR APs, but he applied the same logic of different buckets of Park Passes for APs at WDW that can limit their ability to go to a parks while day guests could still go to the parks. I've heard plenty of WDW AP holders that felt Chapek was targeting them because the data said they didn't spend enough money. That mentality of limiting park passes has shifted a bit following the lawsuit from Magic Key holders. There is also a similar law suit from WDW AP holders now for the same reason around being limited access to the parks by Park Passes.

 

[Jwaire]

Stumbled upon this gem looking at Iger stories ...

Eisner outlines Disney decade in Florida​

LAKE BUENA VISTA, Fla. -- Walt Disney Co. Chairman Michael Eisner Sunday unveiled a 10-year expansion plan at Walt Disney World, including proposals for a fourth theme park and a time-share venture.

The expansion includes 29 projects -- attractions, shows, hotels and renovations -- most of them at the Disney-MGM Studios park, which opened last spring.

'The next 10 years we're going to do nothing less than re-invent the Disney theme park and resort experience, and not just here in Florida, but in all our parks and resorts,' he said.

'By the year 2000, we expect to host over 100 million guests each year in Disney theme parks and resorts around the world.'

Eisner confirmed that Disney would add a fourth theme park to its Florida complex, to join the Magic Kingdom, EPCOT Center and Disney-MGM Studios.

'We will start a fourth theme park before the end of the decade,' he said.

He would give no specifics, but said planners were studying three prospects, one of them favored.

'We're not prepared to talk about it yet, because we are not absolutely positive that, one, it will be the one, and two, that it is fully developed enough to warrant the kind of scrutiny that you will look at, but we are getting very close to an announcement of what it will be,' he said.

Eisner also announced that Disney would launch a time-share vacation package for 500 investors at its Orlando-area parks.

Time sharing allows several investors to buy the same piece of property and to use it at different times, for only a limited number of days each year. It is a sector of the real estate industry notorious for deception and fraud.

Eisner would give no details about Disney's 'shared vacation ownership' program except to say it would give investors 'permanent ownership of the most popular vacation on Earth, a Walt Disney World vacation.'

Eisner would not release the cost of the expansion program.

'We haven't added it all up, because if we added it all up, it would be a headline that we probably wouldn't want to have. It's sizable, but it's all over 10 years. Also, a lot of it is in our annual budget.'

'The Walt Disney Co.'s overall strategic plan is to grow at 20 percent a year with a return on equity of 20 percent,' he said.

'Each project stands on its own. Each project must give the Walt Disney Co. our required return on investment,' he said.

He would not give details on financing, except to say it might come from a mix of internal cash and outside sources, but added, 'Everything we announced will definitely be built.'

Eisner, banking on the success of the movie 'Dick Tracy,' a Warren Beatty-Disney project being released this summer, spelled out plans for a ride and musical review based on the movie.

Beatty's last movie, 'Ishtar,' flopped.

'If it were to become an 'Ishtar,' we probably wouldn't go forward with the ride,' Eisner said.

Disney, which recently acquired The Muppets, also plans to complete by 1991 the Muppet Studios, an area featuring a ride and two shows.

Eisner said Disney also would open a 'Honey I Shrunk the Kids' attraction, based on last summer's movie.

'This is where kids will enter a world of 20-foot blades of grass and monster insects,' Eisner said.

On Friday, Eisner announced similar expansion plans in Southern California, including construction of a second California theme park, to be built either on property adjacent to Disneyland or in Long Beach, next to the Queen Mary, another Disney property.

On Saturday, Disney unveiled a new attraction at its MGM Studios park, 'Star Tours,' a ride based on the 'Star Wars' movies that has been popular at Disney's California and Japanese parks.

https://www.upi.com/Archives/1990/01/14/Eisner-outlines-Disney-decade-in-Florida/9141632293200/

 

[zumfelde]

Agreed.

I think very often we (parents) seem to have a hard time of ... not sure how to word it properly ... accepting that when we have children sometimes we have to stop and take breaks from things until our children are ready for certain things. When my boys were small we had a few years where we just stopped going out to eat. Not that they didn't behave but it wasn't enjoyable for them and therefore us, so we stopped. Disney is a stressful place to go and not all children can handle the lines, the hustle, the missed naps etc. It can be hard to let go and decide to take a break for a few years so the timing is better for the kids. We can't look to others to change to adapt to us. Sometimes you have to shift to something that works better for the place our kids are at behaviorally. That is okay. Then when they are ready, shift again.

REALITY for all of us is ~ the park experience is not going to change in ways many on here want.

- Genie+ is not going away but my hope is now Iger will initiate a study to see how it can be improved for the guest experience.
- I don't think park reservations are going away and likely not hopper 2 pm (they go hand in hand) but perhaps AP can get a few more reservations, perhaps they can allow "hopping" without the first scan in after say 3 pm.
- Perhaps the Dining Plan return will be sped up, which often impacts menus for good (or bad).
- Perhaps there will be pressure to hire more CMs especially in attractions & custodial.
- Perhaps Mousekeeping will return in full.
- Perhaps there will be stress on figuring out how to fix these long wait times.

Things are not as much broken as they are poorly implemented. If many of the implementation problems can be fixed then perhaps things like the longer wait times will

I'll be the horrible person who will dare to say - if your tiny child "can't" wait in line at all, then perhaps wait until they are older and able to do so before bringing them to Disney? Everyone hates long lines. It is part of life. If they have a disability that makes it especially difficult, that is one thing. But just being a toddler, they can learn to deal with a little line-up - or it won't kill them to wait a year or two to be taken to Disney. I know I will get crapped on for this post, but so be it.

I totally agree with you we never took our kids or our grandkids until they were at least 5 years old. When we took our kids there was no such thing as skip the line we just waited. After watching all the people with younger kids and strollers I believe it was the best decision I ever made. I always thought when kids are too young, do the really enjoy themselves and will remember things. We own DVC so it was easy to take breaks back at the resort which also made things a lot easier.

 

[DVacationer]

Thought some of you might enjoy this behind the scenes look at the firing of Chapek.
Happy Thanksgiving!

 

[Illinois76]

Return:
Dining plan with tip included (remember when)
Tables in wonderland
Magical express
DVC benefits for all owners
H2O products
Fast pass+
Extra magic hours
Regular room cleaning service
Disney Quest


Eliminate:
Genie
Lightning lane
Involvement in politics
Restrictions on new DVC resorts

This would be heading in the right direction!

This is the insanity of Disney fans.

To be clear, the translation is to add a ton of cost and eliminate a ton of revenue?

 

[matt and beth]

This is the insanity of Disney fans.

To be clear, the translation is to add a ton of cost and eliminate a ton of revenue?

The parks operated under this model efficiently before.

To be clear:

1. The parks make $17 billion a year
2. Disney+, Hulu, and ESPN lose $4 billion a year.

So why rob peter (park services) to pay Paul (entertainment). Maybe be a little more responsible and fix the loses in those departments. That’s more sustainable.

 

[fatmanatee]

I like this idea where Disney is seeing hundreds of millions per year come in through a new revenue stream and they’ll say “nah we don’t want that”.

 

[Jwaire]

So why rob peter (park services) to pay Paul (entertainment). Maybe be a little more responsible and fix the loses in those departments. That’s more sustainable.

It's the way of TWDC unfortunately.

Even in Parks, look at Hong Kong and Paris. They've never made any money in their entire existence. Now, they have Shanghai to deal with that is constantly shut down because of the Chinese government's zero COVID policies.

The domestic parks, particularly Walt Disney World, have subsidized the international parks for decades. Now, they get to subsidize Disney+ content too at least until the next big theatrical hit.

 

[wabbott]

It's the way of TWDC unfortunately.

Even in Parks, look at Hong Kong and Paris. They've never made any money in their entire existence. Now, they have Shanghai to deal with that is constantly shut down because of the Chinese government's zero COVID policies.

The domestic parks, particularly Walt Disney World, have subsidized the international parks for decades. Now, they get to subsidize Disney+ content too at least until the next big theatrical hit.

I may be wrong here, but I don't think DIS releases park specific revenue/profit/loss figures. I suspect you're correct though - Disneyland Paris was a money sinkhole for years after it was built, and had to have its finances reorganized in the mid-90s - one of Eisner's more spectacular missteps.

But if you know of some source that have accurate revenue/profit/loss data on a per park basis, I would really like to see it.

 

[Jwaire]

I may be wrong here, but I don't think DIS releases park specific revenue/profit/loss figures. I suspect you're correct though - Disneyland Paris was a money sinkhole for years after it was built, and had to have its finances reorganized in the mid-90s - one of Eisner's more spectacular missteps.

But if you know of some source that have accurate revenue/profit/loss data on a per park basis, I would really like to see it.

If you want to know the specific numbers, you'll have to dig through their 10-Q or other filings at the SEC.:

https://www.sec.gov/edgar/browse/?CIK=1744489&owner=exclude

They come up every once in awhile, like on the May earnings call McCarthy addressed Hong Kong and gave an update on Paris. But in general, the financial reporters don't seem to care that much.

Here's a few older articles:

It's been 6 years since Hong Kong turned a fiscal profit:

https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong...ong-kong-disneyland-records-hk24-billion-loss

Paris turned a profit for fiscal 2019 after more than a decade:

Disneyland Paris returns to profit for the first time in more ...https://www.telegraph.co.uk › business › 2019/03/17

 

[Elijah Abrams]

With Iger back, I think Disney should hold theatrical screenings for Soul, Luca, and Turning Red worldwide, as an apology to Pixar fans.

 

[wkrainey]

Agreed, capacity is a much needed boost in all 4 parks.

Stitch's great escape is a fine example of this. Let's say they do replace this with Wreck It Ralph as the rumors say. The ride experience is basically reskinned with the same capacity. Stitch has 2 auditoriums that seat 162 guests and has a 20min run time. so they can clear 972 guests in 1 hour running at max capacity. But we would need way more than this to put a dent in the issue. Magic Kingdom has an estimated 60,000 guest capacity. to accommodate all guests for just 20 additional minutes of entertainment Disney would need to build 4 similar capacity rides. There isn't enough unused space from closed rides to make a dent in capacity. Disney's already said where their next Magic Kingdom expansion is going, and that's just North West of Thunder Mountain. I anticipate that it'll have an entrance by Splash Mountain and another running under the railroad next to Thunder Mountain. If they're being overly aggressive a third entrance will be between Haunted Mansion and It's a Small World's show buildings, but that's a tight fit. Furthermore, you can't really expand behind Fantasy Land without doing a lot of reworking of the utilidor entrance, and because of how vital that is for the entire operation, I don't think Disney will ever change that entrance. That means the next best spot for expansion for walkways would be the new fantasyland bathrooms by Gastons, which were just built. So I think it's safe to say those aren't going anywhere soon.

In Tomorrowland we can squeak out a bit more space behind the Carousel of Progress and Main Street USA if we knock out the parking lot. The only other big space gains at Magic Kingdom is at Autotopia.

 

[crazy4wdw]

Chapek made questionable financial moves prior to firing:

https://www.cinemablend.com/streami...looks-like-he-allegedly-made-some-shady-moves

 

[Jwaire]

Chapek made questionable financial moves prior to firing:

https://www.cinemablend.com/streami...looks-like-he-allegedly-made-some-shady-moves

This has been speculated all along. I wonder if that's why Andor was all of a sudden going to show up on ABC?

 

[HokieRaven5]

The parks operated under this model efficiently before.

To be clear:

1. The parks make $17 billion a year
2. Disney+, Hulu, and ESPN lose $4 billion a year.

So why rob peter (park services) to pay Paul (entertainment). Maybe be a little more responsible and fix the loses in those departments. That’s more sustainable. has around $3 billion a year they could repurpose since 2020 with the removal of the dividend.

TWDC also repurposed about $3 billion in typical annual expenses since 2020 with the removal of the stock dividend.

 

[wabbott]

https://variety.com/2022/film/news/disney-exec-bob-chapek-arthur-bochner-exit-1235442209/

Nov 25, 2022 6:41pm PT
Disney Exec and Bob Chapek Confidante Arthur Bochner Next to Exit
by Michael Schneider

Bochner is the second high-profile Disney exec to depart following Iger’s return to the helm of the company on Sunday.

Bochner, like Daniel, was seen as a key lieutenant of Chapek’s, which made both execs’ departures expected. Disney employees are still marveling at the surprise announcement, in a late Sunday night memo announcing that Iger would return to lead the Mouse House, with CEO Chapek resigning effective immediately after a tumultuous tenure of nearly three years.

According to his most recent job description, as VP of strategic communications, his duties included “reporting to the Chief Communications Officer, led and set vision for new strategic communications function charged with protecting and enhancing The Walt Disney Company’s reputation with external and internal stakeholders.”