CDC Notifies States, Large Cities To Prepare For Vaccine Distribution As Soon As Late October

[Heigh-Ho]

You are generalizing way too much about the beliefs of people that are using the proper wording. How exactly do you think experimental medical treatment becomes approved and conventional medical treatment? People choose to take the treatment and enough data is formed to prove one way or another whether the treatment is safe and effective.

EUAs are given to experimental medical treatments, the only person that shifted the conversation was you. The average time a drug is in clinical trials is 6-8 years, by then there is a lot more data that has been collected than in the four months (?) that these drugs were.

Here is a telling anecdote, my wife works for one of the largest health care systems in the midwest, I work for one of the largest regulatory compliance companies in the country. Neither of our employers is going to make the vaccine mandatory, in the case of my wife's company, their policy on the flu vaccine is if you don't get it every year you are ineligible for a raise or promotion. I also read that Rutgers is not going to require the vaccine for it's employees.

I've seen two camps of people. People who talk about FDA full approval and EUA and people who interject the experimental discussion. Those don't really crossover if the person's point is actually about FDA approval but maybe for you it does. If FDA approval was given, which all signs point to it being much sooner than 6-8 years it would still be experimental to you going by all your comments, we wouldn't know long term side effects, we wouldn't know if follow up treatment is needed and not the full 6-8 years has occurred. If places are going to require it they aren't going to wait 6-8 years to do so and the FDA is unlikely to wait that long either. It's just two different ways of people talking about the vaccine which is where my observation came from.

As far as companies I think we should entertain the idea that while we have these prior policies about vaccines this vaccine, due to the public health situation, may be treated differently. Your wife's company may have used the flu vaccine in the past as a financial incentive. They may not see it the same with the covid vaccine. We all know companies change their minds. They may not want to be the first company out there but as is the case with Rutgers University, which started the conversation, they are willing to be one of the first and without full FDA approval at this point (which I disagree they should be doing right now). If your wife's company and yours as well have other companies in their field begin requiring it in different ways than just a financial incentive they may find themselves changing their minds. Never say never seems very appropriate during this whole mess don't you think?

I was giving my opinion on the continual usage of the phrase which only appears to be used in certain ways but I think it's taken up too much already. I appreciate the conversation however. Please have a good day and I hope your second dose goes well.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I saw this one on Twitter and I can’t wrap my head around it. Besides the idiocy of the idea, how does one prove they weren’t vaccinated? I suggested people on Twitter get vaccinated and then just not show their card and tell the gym they weren’t to get the free membership. I know he’s trying to make a political point, but the lack of common sense in his plan is astounding.

I heard about that too! It was used in conversation in my area about how more places locally were starting discounts or deals for showing your vaccine card. My husband had the same question as you like "wouldn't people just lie and say they didn't get a vaccine when they really did" my response was "I think the people that would take this gym owner up on a free membership for not getting a vaccine are likely to boast about that as in they would have no problem letting people know all around that they didn't get it, I think the chances of people lying are slimmer" That may be purely my opinion but I think the association with this gym is unfortunately going to be about a particular type of mentality. If I got the vaccine I would probably not want to be associated with this gym.

It's kinda immature IMO (although their other choices follow that too) that they are trying to make it about health and a counter choice to Krispy Kreme's promotion. Do they really think we believe it's just purely about our health and the choice to get a gym membership for free instead of a free donut??

 

[Colleen27]

I saw this one on Twitter and I can’t wrap my head around it. Besides the idiocy of the idea, how does one prove they weren’t vaccinated? I suggested people on Twitter get vaccinated and then just not show their card and tell the gym they weren’t to get the free membership. I know he’s trying to make a political point, but the lack of common sense in his plan is astounding.

Folks like that seldom have enough of a grasp of basic logic to understand that you cannot prove a negative.

 

[jlwhitney]

By that time it will have mutated.

This is really a mixed message. Tell the public to get it to slow the spread, and then tell them to make it optional because it hasn’t gone through the normal approval process. So when I ask one of my friends that hasn’t gotten it as to why, they can respond that it hasn’t been fully approved. This pretty much guarantees that we won’t get herd immunity and that it will mutate enough to make this vaccine ineffective. We’re doomed. The CDC is right about the impending doom.

And mutations are not always going to be bad either....could become a virus that causes a less severe illness. There is research saying that some of the coronaviruses that cause the common cold now started as severe illnesses first. Virus rarely mutate to causing a more severe disease , they need a host to survive so their goal is not to kill the host.

 

[tink2424]

Speaking about the part I highlighted, which was my point. If the reasoning is about these other things then it's not really about FDA full approval. It's about the other things. If it was FDA approved today (just pretend) it wouldn't change that someone felt it was experimental (when they use that wording), that we won't know the long term side effects or that we won't know the next treatment. I don't think people want it to be a one and done thing where we don't continue to review and gather information. It wouldn't invalidate the vaccine if later on say in 2 years they said that after reviewing data for so this amount of time we've determined that every 5 years we need something to reignite our immune systems (similar to how tetanus boosters are around) but you also may not know that information when FDA approval is given.

I don't want people to get the impression that I don't understand the concern surrounding requiring something that doesn't have FDA approval. I am saying there are different types of conversations that occur in real life and throughout these threads and consistently a certain type occurs when people use experimental medical treatment instead of just discussing whether without FDA approval a place can do something or discussing what would happen if a place required it when it has been given full FDA approval. I stand by that observation

You are definitely correct in your observation!

And when it comes to lawsuits I definitely think FDA approval is a big issue that would need to be in place. Even the military can't force their people to take these vaccines since they are under the EUA so that is the big differentiator for mandating vaccines.

 

[tink2424]

By that time it will have mutated.

This is really a mixed message. Tell the public to get it to slow the spread, and then tell them to make it optional because it hasn’t gone through the normal approval process. So when I ask one of my friends that hasn’t gotten it as to why, they can respond that it hasn’t been fully approved. This pretty much guarantees that we won’t get herd immunity and that it will mutate enough to make this vaccine ineffective. We’re doomed. The CDC is right about the impending doom.

I understand your frustration. Part of the problem is that the information on these "vaccines" isn't even correct since these "vaccines" (which aren't traditional vaccines but are technically gene therapy) don't stop you from being infected with COVID. All they do is prevent a serious outcome or death which don't get me wrong is amazing.

Now, if this is the case then someone who already had COVID should theoretically have the same protection already. And while we don't know for sure how long our B cells & T cells (the long term immune memory) lasts it has been postulated that we will have durable immunity for a few years (I must also point out that yes you may in the future not be able to fight off variants but pretty much anyone that has ever gotten COVID has the same antibodies that these vaccines make).

I say all of this to relay that we won't necessarily be in the pit of doom and also that even if you are vaccinated you can still contribute to the virus mutating. So all in all it should be the individuals choice to get it or not especially with technologies that are relatively new and have not had a chance to be studied long term as we don't know what the effects could be. I truly hope there are no long term effects but I doubt that will be the case for everyone.

 

[tink2424]

I saw this one on Twitter and I can’t wrap my head around it. Besides the idiocy of the idea, how does one prove they weren’t vaccinated? I suggested people on Twitter get vaccinated and then just not show their card and tell the gym they weren’t to get the free membership. I know he’s trying to make a political point, but the lack of common sense in his plan is astounding.

Well if we are going by the thought that individual businesses can require vaccinations then the opposite must be true as well. I can't believe there are businesses that are considering making it mandatory to have a vaccine to take part in their business. To me its incredibly stupid and at the end of the day they won't be getting my business but to each their own, right?

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Well if we are going by the thought that individual businesses can require vaccinations then the opposite must be true as well. I can't believe there are businesses that are considering making it mandatory to have a vaccine to take part in their business. To me its incredibly stupid and at the end of the day they won't be getting my business but to each their own, right?

Education, especially public, has been treated differently for quite a while so I tend to keep that separate.

But Krispy Kreme isn't saying you can't buy a donut unless you have a vaccine nor is this gym saying you can't get a membership here if you've had a vaccine. Both are just giving different discounts in this case a free donut or a free membership.

An employer/employee agreement is different.

 

[ShirikiUtundu]

Part of the problem is that the information on these "vaccines" isn't even correct since these "vaccines" (which aren't traditional vaccines but are technically gene therapy)

This is at least the 2nd time I've seen you post this and...just stop, Covid vaccines are not "gene therapy."

 

[Donaldswife]

I understand your frustration. Part of the problem is that the information on these "vaccines" isn't even correct since these "vaccines" (which aren't traditional vaccines but are technically gene therapy) don't stop you from being infected with COVID. All they do is prevent a serious outcome or death which don't get me wrong is amazing.

Now, if this is the case then someone who already had COVID should theoretically have the same protection already. And while we don't know for sure how long our B cells & T cells (the long term immune memory) lasts it has been postulated that we will have durable immunity for a few years (I must also point out that yes you may in the future not be able to fight off variants but pretty much anyone that has ever gotten COVID has the same antibodies that these vaccines make).

I say all of this to relay that we won't necessarily be in the pit of doom and also that even if you are vaccinated you can still contribute to the virus mutating. So all in all it should be the individuals choice to get it or not especially with technologies that are relatively new and have not had a chance to be studied long term as we don't know what the effects could be. I truly hope there are no long term effects but I doubt that will be the case for everyone.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucel...therapy-as-some-are-claiming/?sh=4ba4fd9b3d20
They are vaccines, they are not gene therapy, they do not alter your genetics in any way.

 

[RamblingMad]

Education, especially public, has been treated differently for quite a while so I tend to keep that separate.

But Krispy Kreme isn't saying you can't buy a donut unless you have a vaccine nor is this gym saying you can't get a membership here if you've had a vaccine. Both are just giving different discounts in this case a free donut or a free membership.

An employer/employee agreement is different.

Based on a recent article at Bloomberg about it, it looks like healthcare companies and some meat packing companies are highly likely to make it mandatory.

 

[Jonfw2]

Well, here's the good news folks: a year ago, we didn't know if we'd ever have a vaccine. And if we did, if it would even work well. So perhaps this is a better problem to have.

 

[Jonfw2]

CDC Director Walensky: "Our data today suggest that vaccinated people do not carry the virus".

Repeat this to yourself every time you have a negative thought about Covid.

 

[Joe in VA]

There is no evidence that we have increasing reinfections or that the vaccine is not working, it seems that most of the rate increases are in places where they did not have as major or flare ups after the initial Spring surge last year. A place like Texas that is fairly wide open is still experiencing a strong downward trajectory. While the #s aren't great right now, the sheer # of vaccinations every day will keep this from becoming very bad, imho.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Based on a recent article at Bloomberg about it, it looks like healthcare companies and some meat packing companies are highly likely to make it mandatory.

That's why I said an employer/employee agreement is different. The PP said "have a vaccine to take part in their business." so that's what I was responding to.

I understand the leaning towards for meatpacking. That would pave the way for other plant/assembly line places to do the same. A local DISer works at a plant here and she said approximately half of the people (she said there was around 200 or so workers at that particular plant) have presently declined getting the vaccine but their close quarters does put them at higher risk.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

This is at least the 2nd time I've seen you post this and...just stop, Covid vaccines are not "gene therapy."

And we shouldn't use the word in quotes either as if they are not real.

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

Well if we are going by the thought that individual businesses can require vaccinations then the opposite must be true as well. I can't believe there are businesses that are considering making it mandatory to have a vaccine to take part in their business. To me its incredibly stupid and at the end of the day they won't be getting my business but to each their own, right?

Not exactly the same. One is helping public health, the other harming it.

Private businesses requiring them is actually a smart move in my opinion. Many can’t afford the closures that come with an outbreak. And requiring vaccinations isn’t new - other countries have, as well as schools. But like you said, you still have the choice, so it’ll be up to you what you decide to do.

But you seemed to have missed the bigger part of it. How do you prove a negative? How do you prove to them you didn’t get vaccinated? It was a terribly thought out plan, lacking common sense.

 

[Mango7100]

I understand your frustration. Part of the problem is that the information on these "vaccines" isn't even correct since these "vaccines" (which aren't traditional vaccines but are technically gene therapy) don't stop you from being infected with COVID. All they do is prevent a serious outcome or death which don't get me wrong is amazing.

Now, if this is the case then someone who already had COVID should theoretically have the same protection already. And while we don't know for sure how long our B cells & T cells (the long term immune memory) lasts it has been postulated that we will have durable immunity for a few years (I must also point out that yes you may in the future not be able to fight off variants but pretty much anyone that has ever gotten COVID has the same antibodies that these vaccines make).

I say all of this to relay that we won't necessarily be in the pit of doom and also that even if you are vaccinated you can still contribute to the virus mutating. So all in all it should be the individuals choice to get it or not especially with technologies that are relatively new and have not had a chance to be studied long term as we don't know what the effects could be. I truly hope there are no long term effects but I doubt that will be the case for everyone.

Based on your posts, you obviously have a strong opinion. Which you can have. But please don’t post misinformation under the disguise of being scientific... I mean, gene therapy?? Really?

If you don’t want to get a vaccine that’s fine. But then you have to accept some of the consequences. Some employers may require it eventually—you don’t want it, then don’t work there. Cruises will likely require it. Don’t get a vaccine, then don’t get to go a cruise. As many people write, it’s all about personal choice.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Don’t get a vaccine, then don’t get to go a cruise

Oh I did forget about cruises. I could see that (and I know some are starting up as vaccinated only).

 

[RamblingMad]

There is no evidence that we have increasing reinfections or that the vaccine is not working, it seems that most of the rate increases are in places where they did not have as major or flare ups after the initial Spring surge last year. A place like Texas that is fairly wide open is still experiencing a strong downward trajectory. While the #s aren't great right now, the sheer # of vaccinations every day will keep this from becoming very bad, imho.

The UK had to shutdown despite high levels of vaccination because the UK Variant spread like wildfire. More than half their population has had at least one shot. It’s really a race. Once the speed of vaccinations plateaus or declines, we might start to lose the race in parts of the country.