Carousel of Progress-not progressing?!!?

[BethA]

I would hate to see CoP close because of its nostalgia, but it does need to be updated. The final scene is so ridiculous.

There are quite a few rides that in my opinion need some work--Snow White, Peter Pan, even the Haunted Mansion has not changed at all. Some of the old classics should stay but with improvements. Last time we rode CoP the theater was about half full--it should be something to fill in the time with fast passes and could be a nice draw with changes and some publicity about them.

Disney will lose some old loyal fans if everything becomes Pixar.

 

[bicker]

And perhaps gain a lot of new ones. It is always a tough balancing act, prioritizing the past versus the future. Disney strikes a great balance, I believe.

 

[barreloflaughs]

They seek to put their personal preferences on a pedestal, and try to belittle the hard work of professionals doing a good job, solely because they don't "like" who those in power have done.

Ahhh, yes....I see now! It's all about the casting couch!

barrel

 

[bicker]

No, it's about maturity and professionalism.

 

[BRERALEX]

Those who have experience inside the entertainment business and Disney management know how difficult it really is. Attempting to do any type of entertainment with any level of style is difficult; maintaining the historical standards of Disney is extremely difficult to point where it’s nearly impossible. But we found there were great rewards too. Few experiences are a great as listening to an audience react to something you’ve created; fewer still than those that come from walking around a park filled with happy people and thinking to oneself “I made this happen”.

There are frustrations, sure. Disney attracts those that are interested in creating, but it also attracts those in it for the money. It’s no different than Hollywood. It’s a struggle to keep those people from ruining the company – the resources diverted to make a cheap video sequel could have gone to fresh and innovative project instead. To people who have really earned their place, maintaining high standards isn’t just a marketing line – it’s a battle against those with other aims.

But what is even more frustrating are the outsiders, the ones without any direct knowledge of entertainment or of Disney. The ones on the sidelines that, through their ignorance, cheer on the mistakes just as loudly as they cheer on the successes. It’s the people that don’t want to know the difference between the short term and the long term, the outsiders that don’t know the difference between “popular” and “good”, the people that lack the understanding of craftsmanship and talent and imagination.

It must be a terrible place to see the world, forever cheering on the corporate balance sheet no matter what. They miss all the magic that can be possible and instead satisfy themselves with the mundane. There is no joy in shutting down an attraction to save a few bucks; but there’s infinite joy to be found in making a child’s imagination soar.

The people that have never earned the applause, who only gain joy through their fandom of a corporation’s bottom line, the people without dreams, without talent and who never push themselves…what a horrible and frustrating place to be.

Great Post.

We need more peeps with dreams and visions that are bigger then their concern for what 'might' sell.

 

[barreloflaughs]

No, it's about maturity and professionalism.

....errr....it was a joke. You need to read the quoted portion of your post very carefully to get it:

....they don't "like" who those in power have done.

What versus who?

oh....never mind.

barrel

 

[Another Voice]

The reality is that people who haven't earned a place of power always complain when people who have earned a place of power do something they don't like.

Again, completely missing the point.

Just because a business decision is made doesn’t make it correct.

This is especially true in Hollywood or any other creative enterprise. The comfortable PowerPoint slides from business school – all about making plumbing fixture – don’t help out much when it comes to movie making. Anyone who has earned a place in Hollywood knows that to be true.

Those that haven’t continue to apply the same unworkable MBA “magic” where it doesn’t work (California Adventure being a prime example). Good business people will admit their model is flawed and try to accommodate it; the dangerous ones are the people that ignore, shift blame, or try to point fingers instead. That’s what happened to Feature Animation. The suits in charge refused to admit they’re business approach to the division was flawed (a movie is less important than its marketing) and drove the place out of existence

They seek to put their personal preferences on a pedestal, and try to belittle the hard work of professionals doing a good job, solely because they don't "like" who those in power have done.

I suppose that could be a stance should a person be naïve enough to believe that every business decision is correct. And way back in business school that might be what the professor wants you to say.

But people who have earned their place in the real world know that’s a fantasy.

Even suits are people (although some are less human than others) – and people make mistakes.

That’s even more the case in Hollywood. There are hundreds of people involved in “greenlighting” a movie. Yet year after year the town turns out such “what were you thinking” projects like Poseidon and Pulse. These are decisions made by very high level people involving hundreds of millions of dollars – yet any ten year old child can tell them that My Super Ex-Girlfriend will not make money.

It’s because, sadly, a large part of Hollywood simply isn’t capable of making a movie. They are lured by the money and then try to fake their way – they pay huge money for “hot stars”, buy scripts based on ancient “hit” televisions series, and pump the national debt into an ad campaign to con the public into the theater.

And that’s the state Disney is in now. The people running the company just don’t get it. They pretend to be businessmen, but they don’t have the knowledge or the talent to run Disney. So they use the same moldy ideas from business school and try to ignore their mistakes. They haven’t earned a right to run an entertainment company – and so they bound to run things poorly.

The obvious solution to the ‘Carousel of Progress’ is to update the attraction. Even after half a century it still has fans and still has attendance (something that ‘Stitch’ can’t say after a couple months). But the solution for those that just don’t understand is to close it and save a few bucks. That’s the easy solution and it’s the solution that produces the quickest PowerPoint slide.

 

[DancingBear]

No, I feel the statement stands on its own. The reality is that people who haven't earned a place of power always complain when people who have earned a place of power do something they don't like. They seek to put their personal preferences on a pedestal, and try to belittle the hard work of professionals doing a good job, solely because they don't "like" what those in power have done.

So all who have corporate power are unassailable? Customers can't complain? How about shareholders? CEOs, CFOs and COOs never make mistakes?

When you say thing like this, I wonder how you ever could have made a living as a consultant. Did you just always go into a situation and tell management that they were doing a heckuva job? Or did you, in fact, try to find areas that could be improved?

 

[raidermatt]

Some people seem to feel their own "vision" is superior to everyone else's, and especially superior to the people who have actually EARNED the place from which decisions are made. That must be frustrating for those people. It must be a terrible place to see the world from.

No, I feel the statement stands on its own. The reality is that people who haven't earned a place of power always complain when people who have earned a place of power do something they don't like. They seek to put their personal preferences on a pedestal, and try to belittle the hard work of professionals doing a good job, solely because they don't "like" who those in power have done.

Ok, I'll make it simple.

To whom are you referring? Who on this thread do you include in "some people" and "they"?

Because if you are not addressing these belittling statements to specific people here, your statements are not relevant in anyway to the discussion with the people here.

If you are referring to some of the posters here, stand up and say so.


The reality is there are some who do use their personal preference as justification for their opinions on what companies should do. However, there are also those who have reasonable and well thought out arguments for their positions. Some even have specific experience that they draw on to form these opinions, be it with that very company, in the same industry, or elsewhere in the corporate world.

As AV said, people are fallible. That includes people in power. Blind faith in these people has lead to many a disaster, be it on a global scale or simply a failed movie or attraction.

Of course it is your right to follow those in power blindly, and accept their decisions as gospel. But its pretty bad form to belittle those that choose otherwise.

 

[bicker]

If you are referring to some of the posters here, stand up and say so.

*I* respect the rules of the DIS.

I do think there is a lot of chest thumping going on. My earlier points stand. It's the age old "amateurs without data" claiming they know more than "professionals with data". It's all vision and no reality. Come back down to Earth, and try to live your dreams IRL. You'll be in for a very rude awakening.

Incidently, I don't follow the people in power blindly. I respect them for what they've achieved, and don't presume that my personal preferences should trump their professional expert determinations.

Of course, that kind of logic is an anathema on the Rumors and News board.

 

[barreloflaughs]

: My earlier points stand. It's the age old "amateurs without data" claiming they know more than "professionals with data". It's all vision and no reality. Come back down to Earth, and try to live your dreams IRL. You'll be in for a very rude awakening.

Incidently, I don't follow the people in power blindly. I respect them for what they've achieved, and don't presume that my personal preferences should trump their professional expert determinations.

Here is some news about a couple of 'professionals with data' . Former powerful Disney execs who were all about reality and no vision. They focused on plush, deferred maintenance and fry carts. They relied heavily on their data which apparently told them that people visit Disney parks mainly to shop and eat. They did some serious damage to the parks during their tenure. Thankfully people who understood the Disney 'vision' thing spoke up and these powerful professionals took their data and lack of vision to The Gap where they continue to work magic with their data:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=ayQ_TBUVdWyc&refer=us

Then again, their failure is probably the fault of their customers.

Coming soon to your neighborhood Gap: Fry carts and plush!

barrel

 

[All Aboard]

I do think there is a lot of chest thumping going on. My earlier points stand. It's the age old "amateurs without data" claiming they know more than "professionals with data".

Why do you consistently presume that those with which you debate are foolish amatuers?

 

[Another Voice]

Of course, that kind of logic is an anathema on the Rumors and News board.

Is that why you have yet to make a single post that contains a logical and reasoned argument? Not a single one.

Instead you choose to attack me - personally and directly - without having the slight bit of information about who I am or what I've done. You don't attack my logic, you don't attack my conclusions. You attack me.

Amateur indeed.

So let's turn the tables...

Do you have any knowledge of the entertainment industry? Have you ever been a part of Disney management? Have you ever created anything to be sold in the marketplace? Have you even shown your home movies to a group outside your immediate family?

You, sir, throw around the word “amateur” all too loosely for someone in your situation and perhaps you should check your own hard drive before claiming “without data”.

Your posts are calls to blindly accept what we’re given (without any evidence as to why it was a proper decision] – or personal attacks in the integrity or ability of the people that disagree with you.

You offer no solutions.
You offer no information.
You offer no plan.
You offer no history.
You offer no proof.
You offer nothing of interest.

In short – let’s see the goods. We’re all tired of the attacks. State and defend your case.

We'll all wait while you attempt to build a "real world" business case...

Dear moderators – please forgive the bluntness of this post, but I’m tired the tactic of hurling insults written in the third person. It’s a trite debating tactic that should have been left behind in freshman English class.

 

[DancingBear]

I do think there is a lot of chest thumping going on. My earlier points stand. It's the age old "amateurs without data" claiming they know more than "professionals with data". It's all vision and no reality. Come back down to Earth, and try to live your dreams IRL. You'll be in for a very rude awakening.

No, it's the age-old, "Bicker refusing to address cogent arguments" in favor of "belittling the other side."

Sorry, not much time to respond further. Over here IRL, I've got to work on my client's half billion-plus acquisition.

 

[raidermatt]

You know, I could post some things about what it means to "live in the real world", or the real meaning of the word respect. But in the end, I can't really add anything substantial beyond what the last four posts have said.

So rather than clutter things, I'll just wait for the response to those.

 

[hidmickey:myantidrug]

I do really love CoP but the way that they are handling I don't really agree with...

I think that they should have either 1) left it the way that it was when Walt made it and not have updated it all so you could see the original creation in it's entirety and the past final scene or 2) update more than the last scene. Don't get me wrong, CoP is one of my favorites in WDW but to jump from the 60s (I'm not sure of this so I'm throwing a decade out there) to 2000s is rediculous.

I don't think that they should ever get rid of it, especially since it was an original.

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

We on the East Coast are deep into happy hour...What are you Left coasters doing?

 

[Another Voice]

The margaritas are chilling, there will be time to catch a few sets before the sun sinks into the Pacific and then it’s off to tonight’s screening…

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

You da man, Voice! But what kind of margarita's? Those fancy, schmantzy CaboWabo things or the authentic, worm in the bottom, across the border from T town real deal???

 

[crazy4wdw]

It's time to bring this "lively" discussion to an end.