Car seat quandry......long and rambling

[Laurabearz]

Okay, we are pros at flying with two children.... Heck even I, while preggo, took both my girlies to HHI, with a change of plane each way.... alone.... I was lugging.... two car seats, double stroller, my carry on, and two small carry ons for DDs.... No problem.... (yeah right) Well to tell the truth, it was a pain, but It had to be done so I did it... ya know...

BUT........ flying with THREE children (4, 2 1/2, and 4 months) is scarying us. That's 3 car seats to haul down the aisle, plus various carry ons..... My husband is in a tizzy. So we started talking....

Do we need to have DD (4) in a car seat on the plane so we could send hers thru..... Does DD 2 1/2 need a carseat? DD,4, is 42 lbs 42 inches and uses an Eddie Baur five pt harrness car seat (our other DD has the same seat) They are large carseats, and now that I think about it, I dont know if we have used these on planes before..... I wonder if they fit???

I guess I feel okay about the ODD using the belt on the plane, and would prefer my other DD to use the car seat.... but that puts us in a seating order mess....

ODD will sit nicely with daddy, the other.... wants mama.... Daddy, as great of a dad he is.... cant deal with a baby on the plane.... so that puts me with two carseats next to each other, 2 1/2 YOs next to the window, the DS, then me.... Will they allow us to do that, when we do have the option of having one carseat per row...... Does that make sense??

I keep telling my husband the hell only lasts a couple of hours then we are home free.... LOL but even I am getting nervous about flying with 3....

Words of encouragement are welcome! LOL

ARGH!!!!!!!!!!! My head is spining!

 

[jel0511]

First off, I'm ALMOST positive that the infant seat HAS TO be in the window seat due to it being reversed and blocking the aisle, so that would mean baby in window, mommy in middle and 4 YO on aisle. They might let you place the 2 1/2 YO on the aisle but I've always been told that car seats have to be in the window seats to allow safe exit in the case of an emergency. My 5 YO doesn't use a car seat anymore, she's in a belt positioning booster and she does fine, so I wouldn't lug one for the 4 yo. I would bring the car seat for the 2 1/2 YO, since the seats are large and it might help keep that child in control. Personally, I'd arrange it baby in the window, you in the middle, and ODD in the aisle. I'd put 2 1/2 YO with Daddy, I always say that kids have to learn that they always can't have what they want. You really have no other option that I can see (other than Daddy sitting with baby). Also, check your car seats, only some of the Eddie Bauer Booster Seats are FAA approved, regardless of 5 point harness. That's why I didn't buy one, I was afraid of being stopped by the FA, since some are and some aren't. If yours is, bring the users manual with you, incase you're questioned. All I can say is good luck, I pull out my hair traveling with my 5 and 2 YO's, I can't imagine adding an infant to the mix!!!

 

[toystorymom]

I don't really have any answers for you but just wanted to tell you I sympathize. We will be flying for the first time with 3 kids and I'm kind of overwhelmed too. I will say that we are checking our carseat for our DS 4, and bringing one on the plane for DS 2 1/2. I believe as long as they are 40 pounds they are fine in the airplane seat. At least my third DS is 7, not an infant like you, so he can do his own walking and carrying his bag (at least til the complaining starts). Good luck and be sure to let us know how it goes when you get back. I could use the encouragement.

 

[Laurabearz]

Originally posted by jel0511
First off, I'm ALMOST positive that the infant seat HAS TO be in the window seat due to it being reversed and blocking the aisle, so that would mean baby in window, mommy in middle and 4 YO on aisle.

When I flew alone I had two car seats (window and middle) and I was on the aisle... only way to do it..... just wondering if I can do that even though we dont 'have' tpp.... that would be our prefered method...

and I do understand about kids learning that they cant have everything, but at the same time I dont beleive the whole plane should have to suffer for that lesson. Thanks for the tip on raising my children.....

 

[tjmw2727]

Good Luck and sounds like your taking your time and working out the kinks ahead of time - will make your trip easier. I do think you can let the 4yo fly w/out the carseat - you can check it through with the luggage and have it for ground in fl so that's taken care of. I too would use the carseat for the 2yo - check to see that it has the FAA approved sticker and check the width to avoid any unnecessary inconveniecne. If its to wide or not faa approved (some of the EB ones are not) then perhaps you can do a trade with a friend or relative for the trip.

I understand your dilemma about the carseat placement but I think you will again need be flexible as to each airlines rules. Unfortunately in my experience this can vary even within the same airline. We had used my dd's 5pt many times before when we were questioned by a flight crew and had a hard time convincing them even with the sticker. I won't give the gorys' but I would consider having two plans.

Hopefully you can get 2yo at window, baby in middle and you in aisle with older dd and hubby together. If not I would be prepared to have 2yo and hubby sit together and I guess they should both be ready for this situation although not ideal. Maybe have dh pack something super special for 2yo just in case??

I think having a couple back up plans will reduce the stress for everyone (esp you) just in case they will only allow the 1 carseat per row rule. Unfortunately you won't know for sure until you board and see what that particular flight crew requires.

Have a great vacation -

TJ

 

[jel0511]

Originally posted by Laurabearz
When I flew alone I had two car seats (window and middle) and I was on the aisle... only way to do it..... just wondering if I can do that even though we dont 'have' tpp.... that would be our prefered method...

and I do understand about kids learning that they cant have everything, but at the same time I dont beleive the whole plane should have to suffer for that lesson. Thanks for the tip on raising my children.....

You did have two car seats, and you were the one on the aisle, this is acceptable, and if you do two car seats again the infant seat will HAVE to be in the window. Since it's rear facing, your DD would be impeeded in getting out, it's an FAA rule, and I'm sure you don't want your 2 1/2 YO sitting next to the infant with you on the aisle. They also won't allow car seats on the aisle for the same reason, impeeding exit in the case of an emergency. I know you'd be able to take care of everything, but it's FAA rules that govern here. I'm sorry if I offended you, but sometimes everything can't work out and it looks like in this situation it won't unless you decide to not put the 2 1/2 YO in a car seat.

Edited to add:

Here is the information from the FAA on child seats, the infant seat due to being the most impeeding will HAVE to be in the window.

if you purchase a ticket for your child, reserve adjoining seats. A CRS should be placed in a window seat so it will not block the escape path in an emergency. A CRS may not be placed an exit row.

The FAA directive is FAA Advisory Circular 91-62A.

 

[gillis95]

Is it really listed in the FAA rules that the infant has to be rear facing??? Can anyone quote it??

Be familiar with your airlines policy. Go to their website and print off what it says. In Delta's site it does not say the infant has to be next to the window. I have not checked FAA but peoples interpretations vary and if you are standing there with copies of the rules in your hands some new or poorly trained flight attendant is less likely to argue.

http://www.delta.com/travel/trav_serv/Infant_child/infan_seat/index.jsp

-------------
I just checked and it is FAA policy

http://www1.faa.gov/index.cfm/1381

 

[funhouse8]

I'm not sure once you get on the plane but my clever sister traveling with two twin babies made a neat little contraption out of the bag carriers. You know the metal one everyone used before they came out with those suitcases on wheels. Well, she strapped the car seats to two metal frames and was able to wheel the two of them though the airport and onto the plane.

 

[Laurabearz]

Originally posted by jel0511
You did have two car seats, and you were the one on the aisle, this is acceptable, and if you do two car seats again the infant seat will HAVE to be in the window. Since it's rear facing, your DD would be impeeded in getting out, it's an FAA rule, and I'm sure you don't want your 2 1/2 YO sitting next to the infant with you on the aisle. Edited to add:

Here is the information from the FAA on child seats, the infant seat due to being the most impeeding will HAVE to be in the window.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
if you purchase a ticket for your child, reserve adjoining seats. A CRS should be placed in a window seat so it will not block the escape path in an emergency. A CRS may not be placed an exit row.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The FAA directive is FAA Advisory Circular 91-62A.
The FAA directive is FAA Advisory Circular 91-62A.

Okay... I give up.... where does it say that an infant seat HAS to be by the window, if you have more than one carseat..... Or for that matter any info from the FAA on using two carseats in a row.... You say it is more in the way than the car seat, but I beg to differ.... It would be harder for me to quickly unbuckle the rear facing seat if it was closer to the window than if it was in the middle... and also easier for me to reach over it and unbuckle the front facing one... I do this a zillion times a day....

So just because YOU think it is more in the way.... means it is? Who is to judge that? IMO it is me........ I am more than willing to discuss this further if you find anything in the FAA guidelines that comfirms your claims that, given this situation, of two carseats the infant seat must be located in the window...

BTW in case of an emergeny any seat arrangement would not in anyway impeed my getting them all out..... trust me on that.

And one last note... I checked the airline we are flying (Which I should have done in the first place.... DUH) and If I choose I could sit in between the two of them.... As long as we are not blocking someone not in our party....

 

[jel0511]

You know what, I also give up trying to help. You don't like what I'm telling you, since it's not what you want to hear. I've traveled MANY times (different airlines as well), with two car seats, since I have two children and EVERYTIME we were with an infant seat, we were told that the INFANT seat, which was rear facing, HAD TO be in the window with the other car seat next to it, if we wanted to buy 4 seats across. So, we then would buy 2 and 2 so each car seat would have a parent next to it. I know you'd get your children off the plane as quickly as possible, but it's an FAA guidline that the MOST impeeding seat be the one in the least aisle blocking position, I know this since I've been told it MANY times by FA's and have done the research myself. So, if you don't want to believe someone who has been in the same position as you and is trying to tell you the guidelines, fine. Just remember the last time you flew you didn't have an infant seat, two boosters like I said before, that is a completely different situation. Now, if you plan on bringing a convertible seat and have the baby be forward facing that is different situation, but usually the AAP firmly suggests all infants regardless of travel be rear facing until 1 and 20 lbs.

 

[twinmomplus2]

We have twin sons who have flown over a dozen times.. Which means 2 carseats, 2 babies and lots of junk We have only flown Southwest with them so thats all I can comment on.It has been rather inconsistent. The first time they flew at exactly one year. We had purchased seats for each of them. upon arrival we were told they could not both be next me. I could put one on the window. And me in the midddle or aisle. The other on the end of another row, at the window with a family member. This despite having a ticket for each. I will tell you I held one as A lap baby and seated the other one. I know thats assinine. But at least they were both with me. In contrast on the flight home... One baby went on the window, one in the middle me on the aisle. I think its more up to the flight crew. Lets be honest here turbulence is your biggest worry, LauraBearz....I have 4, 2 long past the car seat stage and I still worry if they are sitting to far away from me to grab. If the little one will be what 4 mts??I would not face him forward. Maybe DAd can sit with the little guy and you with the 2 year old,at window, DD4 in a belt. and you on the aisle, If your little one is anything like my twins at that age. It was a quick nursing session followed by a 2 hour sleep. I hear you on the DH as well, Mine could watch the baby but would have a much harder time being patient with a fidgety 2 year old! Good luck whatever you end up doing!

 

[JennsBabySky]

First off, good luck with your trip! We just got back from FL with one child and one carseat and my dh was not so happy about lugging it around (although he did not have a choice and we did have a rolling cart). Anyway, we were originally seated in the rows in front of the emergency exit row (trip to FL) and row behind emergency exit row (trip home). On AA website it says that carseats are not allowed in these rows, but when I called they said they were allowed. However, when I got to the airport, they were NOT allowed. So, unfortunately when you call to check the "rules" you may not get the correct information! At least in my case.

I've heard varying information on carseat placement. I have heard about the infant seat needing to be near the window. But I have also heard that as long as it is a family member "blocked" in and not a stranger that it is up to the flight attendant. That is probably why this is so frustrating. Some of these guidelines are a little vague and the flight attendants on your flight will make the ultimate decision. Kind of scary since you'll be meeting them moments before!

As far as your 42# 4 year old, I would imagine he would be okay without the carseat on the flight. In fact, I would double check the manual because there are only 4 carseats that I know of which can use the five point harness past 40# (unless you have it tethered and live in Canada -- weird huh). The 4 carseats are: Britax Husky, Britax Marathon, Fisher Price Futura and the Nania Airway. You might need to look at buying him a booster seat. If he will seat still long enough -- usually children are old enough for a booster between 4 -5 years old, but it varies with the child. You'll have to make a parental decision on whether he is mature enough to sit still with a booster or if he needs one of those 4 carseats that can be harnessed longer). I am pretty sure that the Cosco seats can only be harnessed until 40#s!

Have a safe flight and good luck!

Jennifer

 

[dijid]

Good luck with your trip. I was also going to advise that your 4yo go without a carseat, especially since she's over 40lbs. I don't think any of the 5pt ones that can hold over 40lbs are FAA approved, but you should check your manual.

One thing that has not been pointed out is that what you do is also going to be dependant on the type of aircraft you fly. I have never been able to fit a convertible carseat rear facing on a prop plane. There just isn't enough room between seats. Still, I felt it was safer to have the baby forward facing in a carseat than in no carseat at all. I HATE flying props, but sometimes you can't avoid it.

On the many occassions I have flown with 2 carseats, I have always had to put the largest carseat (and youngest child) in the window seat. The other car seat had to go in the middle seat or in another window seat. One time I remember the flight attendants couldn't even agree on what should be done. I have never been allowed to sit between two carseats.

We have a carseat bag from the Right Start that has made it much easier to travel with two carseats. Although we just check the carseat for my DD as she's over 4 and sits on the plane without it. Makes things much easier!

 

[lovesdumbo]

I will be in a somewhat simular situation when I fly in Jan with my 11 1/2 month old DD, 3 year old DS and 4 1/2 year old DD who is 42" and 36#. I do not plan on bringing a car seat on the plane for the oldest. My situation is different in that my DH is a stay at home dad but sometimes the kids do want only me. I was orginally planning on baby at window, oldest in middle, me at aile and then DS at window, DH & other friend in other aile. But now I'm thinking about purchasing a portable DVD so I could put DS at window, oldest DD in middle and me or DH in that aile with DVD.

I went to Disney with my oldest last Oct while 6 months pregnant with baby. (They did tell me DD had to be at window.) I had one of those backpack car seat bags for her EB car seat. It was the best $20 I ever spent. I don't know how we would have gotten through the airport without it. It was really huge. I bet you could fit your EB seat and infant seat in 1 bag.

Have a great trip. I hope you'll post any advise on traveling with 3 little ones after you return!

 

[Beth E. (NJ)]

This does sound confusing doesn't it? Makes me happy my kids are old enough to not need car seats on planes. Or course just the car seat regulations from state to state for autos are enough to make your head spin.

I think this is one of those instances when the answer may change from day to day and airline to airline. I recommend calling your airline for the most accurate information.

As a side note -- I know I am new to this board, just becoming a moderator here the other day, but I feel that I should remind everyone to please stay away from personal attacks. Speak unto others as you would have them speak unto you.

Thank you!

 

[jel0511]

To place an end to this argument, here is the info directly from the FAA, I hope it will help others with the correct placement of car seats for future travel.

Child Safety Seats

FAA strongly recommends the use child safety seats for children under 40 lbs. It is important to check with the airline to see if the child seat will fit the width of the airline seat. While airline seats vary in width, a safety seat no wider than 16" in width should fit most coach seats.
Ask about discount fares for children under two travelling in a safety seat.
Purchasing a discounted seat for your child is the only way to guarantee you will be able use a safety seat.
Ask about the airlines busiest travel times. Avoiding these times make it more likely you will have an empty seat next to you. In many cases, airlines will allow you to place your child infant/toddler in an empty seat next to you.
Children under 20 lbs should be in a rear-facing seat.
From 20-40 lbs use a forward-facing seat.
Place the infant seat in the window seat.
Ask airlines to arrange for assistance in making connections when traveling with children and a child safety seat.
Infant seats should not be placed in an aisle seat.

 

[Rapunsel]

I have flown alone many times with my 2 year old and have never had any problems. I used our huge stroller with an infant seat when he was little. Then I made my own contraption. If you do not need a stroller where you are going ie: a friend has one to loan you, you can rent one.. I just bought a small luggage cart from Walmart for $10 and I just use bungee coards and attach the car seat to the cart. I usually put one through the back where the belt goes and another one across the top. I then put my son in it and away we go. I don't have to worry about carrying him or anything. The only thing that I have noticed is that car seats will not roll down the aisle of planes.
he can see where he is going, I don't have to worry about him when I use the bathroom as he is strapped in and right next to me. We are going to WDW in a month and we are bringing a stroller as we don't want to rent one, but my Husband will be with us to help me carry all the stuff. We will still use the luggage cart with the car seat though. As it is very easy if your little one is asleep.
I have always had to put my son by the window though.. And on United airlines the economy seats are small and there is usually not a lot of room and he often kicks the seat.. American and United economy plus.. are no problem.

Enjoy your trip and just remember that they are little and they are doing their best. Love them, feed them and give them lots of praise...

 

[kntheboys]

I hate to make it any more of a dilemna for you, but if you check out this website and/or links: http://pub59.ezboard.com/bcarsafety

they talk about not using a seat that has been checked as baggage on aircraft. (I suppose because of being tossed around and possibly loosening or breaking something or weakening the plastic?) I don't know how finicky you are about your car seats or if this matters to you or not. I never would have even thought about it before I read it on the sites.

I think the idea of using a couple luggage rollers with the seats strapped on sounds the simplest, with the 4 yo walking. (You could just wheel them on the plane with the kids in them, unstrap them --I'd use bungey cords-- and buckle them onto the airplane seat!)

What we did last year when flying with 5 kids was:

1) put the 2 month old in his infant (not convertible) car seat inside the stroller,

2) brought along the booster seat for the 5 yo (It was just the platform kind of booster, so it was easy to stash under the seat in front of him, and it had 2 metal hooks --it's a "Gerry"-- that we hooked a shoulder strap to. That way, it hung over the handle of the stroller or over one of our shoulders when walking through the airport. Then he still had a booster seat for the van at MCO.)

We didn't have a problem with 2 car seats, but if I were you, I would put the 2 yo by dad and like someone else mentioned, have something special for him from dad. (My almost 2 yo wants ME all the time, too, so I can relate. Sometimes what helps is if he can't see me.) I would just keep talking about the trip now and about how "you get to sit by daddy by the window like a BIG BOY/GIRL!" I wouldn't tell him/her you have a special treat. I would just have dad have it on hand. Even wrapping up one of their own special toys makes it exciting having to open the paper, etc. I've even bought garage sale toys (little ones) and wrapped them up to give out at intervals when everyone's getting restless...

Good Luck and have fun!