Can't believe they excluded POR!

[Glennie5]

I've been saying for more than a year now that people shouldn't book a room if they are only booking for free dining. This promo is done entirely to fill rooms in a low attendance period. I said many times that resorts such as this would end up being excluded if people kept booking, yet I saw many posts saying that was wrong, and people should book to get what they want.

Eventually, enough will book ahead of time to knock free dining off entirely. They won't offer a promo if heads are already booked into the beds.

Sorry...

I agree with you 100%

 

[aaarcher86]

I have a different take. You have right to speak your mind. If you want free dining at POR call and explain it to them. You will either get it fixed or not. I understand your situation all to well and support you. Just as you shouldnt take POR being excluded personally (maybe you should). Others should not take someone expressing their disappointment with Disney personally as well. DISNEY will offer free dining at POR this fall that is 99.9% a fact. Wether it is a random pin code sent out to 1000 people or it is advertised only time will tell. There is nothing wrong with calling wed or thurs and seeing what Disney can do for you. If they want your money they will get the job done. If they dont then you will have to decide if the product they offer is worth the money they charge. Dont act like Disney is completey innocent in this matter. They make you do your ADR 180 + days ahead if you want the harder to get restaurants. They know people will book the rooms and do the ADR so if the discount does comes out they will be prepared. They know some people will cancel but they also know once you have the emotional investment of planing your vaction a lot will just except it and still go. Look at all the people that left POR because there wasnt free dining. Now that everyone has left for deluxes and values(in some cases two rooms) with upgraded dining (more profit) they will offer free dining at POR. Most will be happy(or not know if its a pin code) and not change back to POR. They will then fill POR with free dining pin codes or RO offers which is more profit for them. I do not take it personal that they did not offer FD at POR. Please dont take it personal when I use the leverage I have as the customer.

I think you're giving your perceived leverage a bit too much credit, but by all means, make your voice heard and see how far it gets you. No harm in that.

 

[wdwmaw]

I have a different take. You have right to speak your mind. If you want free dining at POR call and explain it to them. You will either get it fixed or not. I understand your situation all to well and support you. Just as you shouldnt take POR being excluded personally (maybe you should). Others should not take someone expressing their disappointment with Disney personally as well. DISNEY will offer free dining at POR this fall that is 99.9% a fact. Wether it is a random pin code sent out to 1000 people or it is advertised only time will tell. There is nothing wrong with calling wed or thurs and seeing what Disney can do for you. If they want your money they will get the job done. If they dont then you will have to decide if the product they offer is worth the money they charge. Dont act like Disney is completey innocent in this matter. They make you do your ADR 180 + days ahead if you want the harder to get restaurants. They know people will book the rooms and do the ADR so if the discount does comes out they will be prepared. They know some people will cancel but they also know once you have the emotional investment of planing your vaction a lot will just except it and still go. Look at all the people that left POR because there wasnt free dining. Now that everyone has left for deluxes and values(in some cases two rooms) with upgraded dining (more profit) they will offer free dining at POR. Most will be happy(or not know if its a pin code) and not change back to POR. They will then fill POR with free dining pin codes or RO offers which is more profit for them. I do not take it personal that they did not offer FD at POR. Please dont take it personal when I use the leverage I have as the customer.

Disney, unlike other travel destinations offers lots of options for lots of different size families in lots of different price points. Your argument and take on this is only valid if families of 5 have multiple options at every travel destination at the same price point, they don't period. I randomly checked several popular travel spots and everything I checked bumped my price significantly as I changed lfrom 4 guests to 5 guests. POR is a value in that it is a typical standard hotel room that sleeps 5, making it very valuable, unique in the travel industry, and highly requested. This in in self lends to the lack of discounts. Your argument is like arguing that a family of 4 or less is being discriminated against at AOA since they don't offer discounts for the Little Mermaid room or that a family of 4 has to pay more to stay at POP rather than the All-Stars. Actually All-Stars use to be more and when no one booked there, choosing the exact same accommodations at POP for less Disney raised the price at POP. Disney at its core is a business that does care about its guests and goes above and beyond to meet the needs of it's guests.

Pretend your having a yard sale and everything is a $1. At 6 am you look out and see 1000 people in your yard waiting on you to open your garage door. You look at your hubby and day WOW lots of people lets now only charge 50 cents and give everybody free coffee/donuts for coming out. I don't think you will do that. Your neighbor might do that if no one is in their yard???

Of course Disney wants you to book ahead, that's business and marketing has done a great job at making people think they need to book ahead and when you do your playing their game and have taken the ball out of your court.

Sent from my iPhone using DISBoards

 

[pjredhead]

Hey everyone
Do not stress over not being able to stay at Riverside because they don't have FD. I booked a room there about a month ago. Free dining never entered my mind. I just booked it. So not everyone books RS for free dining.. Yes I did not like it that they were excluded from FD but "it is what it is". I just changed to CSR. Never stayed there before so thought give it a try.

 

[wdwmaw]

The cabins at Fort Wilderness are wonderful, but depeding on the season they cost between $150 to $260 per night more than POR, negating most or all of the benefit of free dining. I think that is likely a problem for many families of five: they would like to take advantage of free dining, but with POR exlcuded all of the other options involve much higher priced rooms that cost so much more than POR that the extra room cost eats up most or all of the benefit of free dining. It is the reality, but a disappointing one for some. If POR had been in the free dining deal, my family of 5 would be travelling to Disney in December for a 12-night stay at POR. Since POR is not included in free dining, we will not be going to Disney during the rest of 2014 and we will see what 2015 has to offer, possibly including a stay at the new Cabana Bay Beach resort at Universal, which has rooms that accomodate 5 and which are cheaper than POR.

The cabins are designed as a value in the moderate category. They have a kitchen in them and not intended to be used with the dining plan. They are priced at rack rate so if a family, like mine added the dining plan that would come too roughly $300 per night. The kitchen option is for those families looking to save money by cooking meals in their room. This makes the cabins a family friendly budget option for its price point, esp with a room discount and comparing them to a 1bedroom. Not for everyone but an option many enjoy an appreciate.

Sent from my iPhone using DISBoards

 

[scard192]

I've been saying for more than a year now that people shouldn't book a room if they are only booking for free dining. This promo is done entirely to fill rooms in a low attendance period. I said many times that resorts such as this would end up being excluded if people kept booking, yet I saw many posts saying that was wrong, and people should book to get what they want.

Eventually, enough will book ahead of time to knock free dining off entirely. They won't offer a promo if heads are already booked into the beds.

Sorry...

hopefully next year people will follow this advice. But then there are so many WDW guests who don't follow the DIS, can you imagine?

 

[mb3bm8]

I too first stayed at POR a few years back for the first time because it was the cheapest moderate , held 5 and had FD. Turns out we really liked it. BUT if I had the option of FD and it wasn't being offered at POR I would pick one that was ....
That being said I don't like it that disney took the only moderate that holds 5 ( that gives u the sit down meal) And is cheap off the list.. I'm assuming because of the latter that was said about filling rooms but I also think that it has to do with giving 5 people free dining on a less than 200 dollar a night room. For instance I stayed in 2012 at POR 2 adults 3 kids free dining in September ( love that time. No crowds. it was sooo nice to not wait in line for anything and still feel like summer ) for 6 nights 6 day tickets for 2,100..... SOOOO. That is the greatest time to go . Room rates the lowest, crowds the lowest, free food ... What're can u ask for ??? I think that is why disney took POR off the list ... It's not economical for them to offer it at that particular resort ...and disney is about the money like everyone else is.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

First, understand that the resorts do not share income. Each has to "sink or swim" on it own. Now into the discussion at hand - why no FD at POR?

Those who believe that this is about the cost of feeding an additional child are just not thinking it through. Forget what that meal costs on the menu, or the price of the DDP per day. Disney pays a tiny fraction of that to feed you at their restaurants.

The restaurant staff is already paid during this period, as is all other overhead - those costs are static, whether a single person comes into the restaurant or it is filled to capacity. So it only comes down to the cost of the food. Disney buys the food in bulk - huge bulk orders. So forget what you pay in the grocery store or at Sam's Club - they pay much less.

If I had to guess, I would put the cost to feed an adult in Disney at about $20/day (food costs), but that is probably high. A child eats much less. A family of 5 probably comes in well under $100/day - my wife believes it would be much less than this.

Now consider that their costs to maintain a resort are also fixed. They are paying for everything that you get at a resort whether the rooms are all full or all empty. They absolutely need to fill those rooms to offset those costs.

So, during slow seasons Disney is going to have to offer discounts, and room only discounts just don't seem to be sufficient to fill moderate or value resorts this time of the year. They have tried, with savings of 30% or more at times. Now consider that the average room rate at POR during this season is $200/night (before tax - could be more or less depending on room category).

So, at that rate Disney was already willing to give you a discount of $60/night. Substituting that with free dining does not cost Disney much more, and with smaller families they might actually make more money.

So the question - why not offer the discount at a particular resort, like POR? Since we have established that food costs are the only relevant factor, the cost to feed a family of 5 vs 4 can be discounted. It just doesn't represent a cost to Disney worth mentioning.

They are not going to let rooms sit empty for $20/day in food savings.

 

[StitchesGr8Fan]

First, understand that the resorts do not share income. Each has to "sink or swim" on it own. Now into the discussion at hand - why no FD at POR? Those who believe that this is about the cost of feeding an additional child are just not thinking it through. Forget what that meal costs on the menu, or the price of the DDP per day. Disney pays a tiny fraction of that to feed you at their restaurants. The restaurant staff is already paid during this period, as is all other overhead - those costs are static, whether a single person comes into the restaurant or it is filled to capacity. So it only comes down to the cost of the food. Disney buys the food in bulk - huge bulk orders. So forget what you pay in the grocery store or at Sam's Club - they pay much less. If I had to guess, I would put the cost to feed an adult in Disney at about $20/day (food costs), but that is probably high. A child eats much less. A family of 5 probably comes in well under $100/day - my wife believes it would be much less than this. Now consider that their costs to maintain a resort are also fixed. They are paying for everything that you get at a resort whether the rooms are all full or all empty. They absolutely need to fill those rooms to offset those costs. So, during slow seasons Disney is going to have to offer discounts, and room only discounts just don't seem to be sufficient to fill moderate or value resorts this time of the year. They have tried, with savings of 30% or more at times. Now consider that the average room rate at POR during this season is $200/night (before tax - could be more or less depending on room category). So, at that rate Disney was already willing to give you a discount of $60/night. Substituting that with free dining does not cost Disney much more, and with smaller families they might actually make more money. So the question - why not offer the discount at a particular resort, like POR? Since we have established that food costs are the only relevant factor, the cost to feed a family of 5 vs 4 can be discounted. It just doesn't represent a cost to Disney worth mentioning. They are not going to let rooms sit empty for $20/day in food savings.

So what you are saying is that the rooms aren't empty and that is why they don't need to offer free dining.

 

[aaarcher86]

First, understand that the resorts do not share income. Each has to "sink or swim" on it own. Now into the discussion at hand - why no FD at POR? Those who believe that this is about the cost of feeding an additional child are just not thinking it through. Forget what that meal costs on the menu, or the price of the DDP per day. Disney pays a tiny fraction of that to feed you at their restaurants. The restaurant staff is already paid during this period, as is all other overhead - those costs are static, whether a single person comes into the restaurant or it is filled to capacity. So it only comes down to the cost of the food. Disney buys the food in bulk - huge bulk orders. So forget what you pay in the grocery store or at Sam's Club - they pay much less. If I had to guess, I would put the cost to feed an adult in Disney at about $20/day (food costs), but that is probably high. A child eats much less. A family of 5 probably comes in well under $100/day - my wife believes it would be much less than this. Now consider that their costs to maintain a resort are also fixed. They are paying for everything that you get at a resort whether the rooms are all full or all empty. They absolutely need to fill those rooms to offset those costs. So, during slow seasons Disney is going to have to offer discounts, and room only discounts just don't seem to be sufficient to fill moderate or value resorts this time of the year. They have tried, with savings of 30% or more at times. Now consider that the average room rate at POR during this season is $200/night (before tax - could be more or less depending on room category). So, at that rate Disney was already willing to give you a discount of $60/night. Substituting that with free dining does not cost Disney much more, and with smaller families they might actually make more money. So the question - why not offer the discount at a particular resort, like POR? Since we have established that food costs are the only relevant factor, the cost to feed a family of 5 vs 4 can be discounted. It just doesn't represent a cost to Disney worth mentioning. They are not going to let rooms sit empty for $20/day in food savings.

Even so, there will be many families that can't afford to move resorts. Even without a discount it's still the cheapest option in many cases. Since Disney offered a room discount there they'll take it and stay put.

Let's not forget that the people on the DIS hovering around are a very small minority of people. Most people book what they can afford and get excited with any amount of money that comes off after the fact.

 

[mommyof3princess27]

If RO was offered for my dates and we didnt wanna upgrade to DxDP, I would have stayed put because i love POR. Hopefully there will be RO available

 

[BuckeyeBama]

Even so, there will be many families that can't afford to move resorts. Even without a discount it's still the cheapest option in many cases. Since Disney offered a room discount there they'll take it and stay put.

This discussion is not about them. Those who booked knowing that they were staying at POR no matter what have nothing to apologize for - to themselves or anyone else.

But if they changed resorts because FD was not offered here, they were part of the problem that resulted in FD not being offered here.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

So what you are saying is that the rooms aren't empty and that is why they don't need to offer free dining.

Yep - and if the rooms show more empty over time as people rebook elsewhere that might change, but it would probably come from PIN codes, not a public offer.

If folks on the Dis re-booked rooms from POR to another resort, there are other people out there doing the same thing. Just to speculate, let's say that 1000 rooms are re-booked to another resort to gain FD, and each was for a 10 night stay. That produces 10,000 nights of empty rooms at POR. This is spread over about an 80 day window given the ability to carry over the reservation into dates not listed. That means that POR now has 125 more empty rooms during every night of this promotion, and 15 nights outside of the promotion dates, but included by nature of the offer. That is a lot of empty rooms, but POR has 2,048 rooms, so it only represents 6% of their room capacity.

To me, that isn't going to be enough to drive another public offer. Why? Because then you would just have those same people changing resorts - again - Disney gains nothing.

However, that might be enough to try and attract some folks may not have booked anywhere. So maybe, just maybe, we might see a FD PIN.

This is all based on made up numbers. If they had 5000 room reservations canceled, this all changes. I doubt that the number was that high, but there is no way to know.

 

[aaarcher86]

This discussion is not about them. Those who booked knowing that they were staying at POR no matter what have nothing to apologize for - to themselves or anyone else. But if they changed resorts because FD was not offered here, they were part of the problem that resulted in FD not being offered here.

Not really. Plenty of people are posting that they are a family if 5 who booked POR banking on FD and calculated it into their costs when planning on what they could afford.

Others are changing to suites and deluxe resorts because they can afford to, but still booked POR in advance hoping for the cheapest option.

POR is included in the room discounts and FD pins, so there's a chance to stay there but few people will get that opportunity now.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

Not really.

No idea how any of that has anything to do with my post.

 

[aaarcher86]

No idea how any of that has anything to do with my post.

Well, it was a continuation of the conversation after you quoted me... but okay.

 

[20yBWDW]

No idea how any of that has anything to do with my post.

I think it has everything to do with your post. Her point is a valid one. You made a blanket category of people who booked at POR, but switched to a different resort with free dining. I think the other PP makes a valid point that that category is made up of two subcategories. One, people who booked there with no intention of staying there without free dining, but had to cancel because there is now no free dining. Two, people who booked there because as it stood (with no known discounts), it was the option that met their budget, but once the free dining was released, their budget allowed them to upgrade or save some money with a different choice.

Our only option for a vacation in the absence of any discounts was POR. Assuming that the free dining for November was not being offered before July/August, I had planned to book at POR. If I had not done so, and no free dining was offered, and all of the POR rooms that slept five were booked by the July/August timeframe, my family would not have been going to Disney World. My plan A was free dining somewhere. My plan B, if no free dining, was a regular price package at POR, with whatever discounts were available. A family of four who waits to book because they want free dining is not risking much. They have a ton of choices in each room category. A family of five who waits to book because they want free dining has more to lose. They may not be able to go at all if free dining is not released.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

I think it has everything to do with your post. Her point is a valid one. You made a blanket category of people who booked at POR, but switched to a different resort with free dining.

Sorry, my statement applies. Excuses are excuses. People who booked at POR hoping for FD and changed their plans to any other resort when FD was released caused this. Period.

It doesn't effect me. I am trying to help people understand what happened so they can avoid it in the future. But do what you wish - you are only hurting yourself.

 

[aaarcher86]

Sorry, my statement applies. Excuses are excuses. People who booked at POR hoping for FD and changed their plans to any other resort when FD was released caused this. Period.

It doesn't effect me. I am trying to help people understand what happened so they can avoid it in the future. But do what you wish - you are only hurting yourself.

I wasn't making excuses

I was replying to someone else completely before you quoted me, and apparently out of context? The person I quoted was talking about lots of people jumping ship from POR to get on board with FD. I was just stating that it's really not that many, and why. I wasn't even talking about them being responsible for FD not being included in the first place, but I definitely don't think that they'll be including it later either.

I'm completely in line with you on why FD excluded POR so I really can't figure out what you're getting at... at least when it comes to quoting me.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

I wasn't making excuses

I was replying to someone else completely before you quoted me, and apparently out of context?

I'm completely in line with you on why FD excluded POR so I really can't figure out what you're getting at... at least when it comes to quoting me.

My apologies - I was not quoting you to quote you specifically until the one with the question. I just think that too many people on this board are making excuses and blaming Disney for this situation when the only people who had the power to avoid it are the people who booked. Still, I should stop preaching.

My apologies to everyone.