Cancelling a reservation

[Buttercup Roberts]

The upcoming AKV has me interested... BUT...

One thing we can't stand is when there is a cancellation penalty on our accomodations. (I don't want to argue about whether it's fair and we're unreasonable, we just don't want to be out money if someone gets sick before a trip, and we don't want to buy trip insurance.)

Recently, I've seen a couple of threads on the Rent/Trade board where owners with booked reservations can't go, usually for very sad/good reason, and they are frantically trying to rent out the reservation -- why? I thought you could simply bank and then rebook?

Is there a real risk of losing out on your points (which are worth a whole boatload of money with the upfront cost and yearly fees - not like they're free!!), if you have to cancel your reservation?

Any guidance you all could give me about the level of risk this represents, I'd appreciate!

 

[RobDoc]

There is no penalty for cancelling a reservation - the points used are simply returned to the account to be re-used or banked subject to normal banking deadines. If cancelled 31 or more days ahead , the points will have no other restrictions. If cancelled within 30 days, the points will become "Holding Account" points - which means they may only be used for a reservation within 60 days of when you contact MS- these points cannot be banked.

In some cases, the reservations listed on the Rent/Trade Board are offered for rent because the member will otherwise be unable to use them due to the Use Year or personal vacation schedule. In some cases they are just being rented to generate cash to be used for some other purpose - and in some cases they were even made originally with the intent of offering them as a rental and not for personal use.

 

[Deb & Bill]

Also, if the points were borrowed, they cannot be put back into the Use Year that they were borrowed from and would be lost at the end of the current UY. A member might be past the point where they can bank 100% of their points, too. And if the points were already banked, they must be used during the current UY or be lost.

The points only can be used for so long and they are lost forever. You can't carry them over year after year after year.

So non-members are at the mercy of the member to make the rules on cancellations or changes. Some allow them, some don't.

 

[JimMIA]

In addition to the issues Doc and Deb outlined, there is the issue of banking deadlines. DVC members can bank points forward that they don't intend to use during a particular use year, but there are deadlines and restrictions on the percentage of points which can be banked.

If an owner made a ressie some time in advance...the banking deadlines passed (or some of them passed)...and then a cancellation occurred, the owner could end up with points which were virtually worthless to them. Not that there would have been any penalty involved, but simply that the points were not banked by the applicable banking deadline. In other words, the owner could lose points because they had passed a deadline, were not planning to take a trip prior to the end of the use year, and then had to cancel.

Also...renting suddenly unneeded points at the end of the use year carries its own set of risks.

DVC is not for everybody. The program has tremendous flexibility, and many nuances, but it also has reasonable restrictions. If the restrictions don't fit your family's needs, you'd better take a long, hard look at DVC before buying.

 

[SuzanneSLO]

One thing we can't stand is when there is a cancellation penalty on our accomodations. (I don't want to argue about whether it's fair and we're unreasonable, we just don't want to be out money if someone gets sick before a trip, and we don't want to buy trip insurance.)

Based on this statement, DVC may not be the right purchase for you because you may find it hard to reuse points if you cancel a reservation at the last minute.

I believe that if you book a room only reservation directly through Disney, you can change or cancel your reservation without penalty up until 5 days prior to check-in. This is certainly more flexible -- as a practical matter -- than your right to receive your points back in holding as a DVC member.

However, the cost for the same accomodations from Disney is usually much higher than using points as a DVC member. So you have a greater right to cancel, but you pay for that right. Only you can decide if that right is worth the cost to you.

I do understand where you are coming from because before buying into DVC, I looked at renting points from a member. Renting points may be cheaper than actually owning points, but rental transactions are almosts always completely nonrefundable, even if you need to cancel months in advance. To me, weighing the costs and benefits, owning DVC and having a refund right that I might have to work to take advantage of was better than renting points with no refund rights. Many people, of course, strike a different balance.

Best of luck -- Suzanne

 

[Buttercup Roberts]

Renting points may be cheaper than actually owning points, but rental transactions are almosts always completely nonrefundable, even if you need to cancel months in advance. To me, weighing the costs and benefits, owning DVC and having a refund right that I might have to work to take advantage of was better than renting points with no refund rights. Many people, of course, strike a different balance.

Best of luck -- Suzanne

That's a very good point, Suzanne. I've rented points from DVC owners four times now, over the years, and it's always not a cost savings of any sort really, when we run the numbers, to own vs. keep renting, BUT... there is the "right" to book the unit we want, at a resort we love, and manage our own points and reservations. There's not the hassle of cancellations with a third party, the trust issues. Heck, one time I lost my confirmation letter *and* my computer crashed -- I could barely find my renter in time to take the vacation I'd paid for! (She'd changed her email address and hadn't posted since she rented to me, months before my trip.) We finally got in touch and she bent over backwards for me, but sheesh that was stressful!

One motivator for me, too, is that once upon a time I could rent BWV when I wanted to, but the last two years it's been getting harder and harder to get a reservation. I'm not sure that would be any easier if I owned there, really, though... It makes me nervous when they build something like SSR with so many owners, many of whom I think are thinking they are going to stay at any resort *but* SSR. That's a bit scary.

Another motivator for me is that our other "favorite" place to stay, the Ft. Wilderness Cabins, keep going up $25 or $30 a year, and the AP rates that used to be easily had are getting farther and fewer inbetween. Maybe it's just temporary, but for right now, WDW is pricing us into seeing DVC as a more attractive purchase than we used to.

 

[4Pluto]

If you visit WDW during the same time each year, I believe that you can lessen the risk of forfeiting points by choosing a use year that is just prior to your vacation season. If you normally travel in March and April, having a February Use Year means that if you cancel a March or April trip, you still have several months to bank all of your points (unless they were previously banked or borrowed) or most of the year to reschedule your trip. If your Use Year had been June and cancelled your Spring trip in February, you would have missed the 100% banking deadline and would have far less time to reschedule your trip. This strategy will not help if your vacation times vary (or if they will change later in life) and it will not help if you cancel within 30 days (except that you have more months in which to schedule a vacation less than sixty days in advance), but it is one consideration in choosing a Use Year.

 

[Starr W.]

If you visit WDW during the same time each year, I believe that you can lessen the risk of forfeiting points by choosing a use year that is just prior to your vacation season. If you normally travel in March and April, having a February Use Year means that if you cancel a March or April trip, you still have several months to bank all of your points (unless they were previously banked or borrowed) or most of the year to reschedule your trip. If your Use Year had been June and cancelled your Spring trip in February, you would have missed the 100% banking deadline and would have far less time to reschedule your trip. This strategy will not help if your vacation times vary (or if they will change later in life) and it will not help if you cancel within 30 days (except that you have more months in which to schedule a vacation less than sixty days in advance), but it is one consideration in choosing a Use Year.

Our guide actually used this advice in helping us pick our UY(either Oct or Dec). Since our major trip will be in Nov, he suggested the Oct UY as if we need to cancel we would only be in our 2nd month and have the rest of the year to use the points if they were put in a "holding" account.

As for SSR owners like myself, I'll stay there when I go to WDW. I like it is a bit away from the parks, I like the low key themeing of the resort and we prefer a calmer atmosphere after a day at the park. I wouldn't have bought SSR if I didn't like it. If I had wanted VWL or BCV I would have gone resale to get the 11 month window.

 

[Buttercup Roberts]

So... we always want to go around the first or second week of December, at least for a few days.

The rest of the year is kind of up for grabs.

Let me see if I can get this straight in my mind:

I buy a contract with a November use year.
I get my first allotment of points in November, 2007.
I call in January, 2008, at my 11 month window for my December, 2008 vacation.
Something dire happens and we can't go in December 2008.
What's the last day I can cancel and be able to bank 100% of my points?

 

[RobDoc]

...
Let me see if I can get this straight in my mind:

I buy a contract with a November use year.
I get my first allotment of points in November, 2007.
I call in January, 2008, at my 11 month window for my December, 2008 vacation.
Something dire happens and we can't go in December 2008.
What's the last day I can cancel and be able to bank 100% of my points?

We always have 6 months to bank up to 100% of our points - so a November Use Year can bank all points thru the end of May. 50% may be banked thru August and 25% thru September - none may be banked in October or November.

BTW - if you purchase now, you would most likely get November, 2006 points and would not need to wait until 11/07 for the first points.

 

[Deb & Bill]

If you were using Nov 2007 points in Dec 2008, the points would already be banked into your 2008 UY.

 

[Buttercup Roberts]

We always have 6 months to bank up to 100% of our points - so a November Use Year can bank all points thru the end of May. 50% may be banked thru August and 25% thru September - none may be banked in October or November.

So in my above scenario, I've booked my December 2008 vacation with November 2007 points, but I can cancel and bank 100% of them up until May 2009, as long as I cancel more than 30 days in advance?

 

[RobDoc]

So in my above scenario, I've booked my December 2008 vacation with November 2007 points, but I can cancel and bank 100% of them up until May 2009, as long as I cancel more than 30 days in advance?

Your November 2007 points could not be used for a December 2008 reservation unless they were banked into your 2008 Use Year. If you cancelled that reservation, the points could not be banked again and the points would need to be used for a reservation that ends by October 31, 2008 or they would expire.

A November Use Year runs from November 1 thru October 31 of the following year. In order to use the points beyond that date, they would need to be banked and cannot be banked a 2nd year. November, 2007 points expire October 31, 2008 unless they are banked and then will expire on October 31, 2009 if not used - they could not be banked a second time.

 

[wtpclc]

Since your Nove 07 points gare good from 1/1/07 to 10/31/07, tehy woul dautomatically have been banked to use them in 12/08. You cannot re-bank points, so you would have to use them by 10/31/09. You could bank 100% of your 11/08 points up to 5/09.

If you had booked that same trip in Jan 08 using your Nov 08 points (when your opints come available has nothing to do with when you can make ressies), if you had to canel, you could bank those points 100% up to 5/09.

 

[Buttercup Roberts]

Please forgive me, I am evidently SO confused!

Maybe what I'm not getting is the whole "use year" concept.

Let's say I want to go on vacation in December 2008. I have a November use year.

When do I call to book my vacation??

 

[wtpclc]

Lot's of people have a hard time with this concept, so I'm going to take it pretty simple.

Your use year has nothing to do when you can make ressies. Ressies can always be made 11 months from the date you want to check out.

Now, when you make your ressie, you need to have enough points in your account at the time of the stay. That's wher euse year comes in.

So, using your assumed November Use year, you would use November 08 points (good from 11/1/08 to 10/31/09) fro your 12/08 stay. If you had to cancel, and did so 31 days outs, you could bank 100% of those points up to April (sorry recounted and end of April would be your banking deadline).

If, you were not going to use your 07 points, you could bank them adn use those for you 12/08 stay (w/o banking they would have expired 10/31/08).

If you had to cancel that stay, you would not be able to re-bank them. They fall into the use year that the ressie was in. You would have to use them by 10/31/09. Clear as mud?

 

[RobDoc]

Please forgive me, I am evidently SO confused!

Maybe what I'm not getting is the whole "use year" concept.

Let's say I want to go on vacation in December 2008. I have a November use year.

When do I call to book my vacation??

Use Year has nothing to do with when you can make a reservation - it is merely when your points are renewed each year and also determines your banking deadlines.

December, 2008 will fall into your November, 2008 Use Year (that UY will run from November 1, 2008 thru October 31, 2009). For a trip in December, 2008 you could use points from your November, 2007 Use Year (as loing as they have been banked into your 2008 UY), your November, 2008 Use Year and you could borrow from your November, 2009 Use Year. With a 200 point contract, you could have up to 600 points to use in December, 2008 as described above.

As long as the points will be available at the time of the reservation (thru current, banked and/or borrowed points) you may make the reservation 11 months ahead at your home resort.

For a December, 2008 stay, you may make the reservation in January, 2008 (11 months from your checkout date).

Enjoy!

 

[Buttercup Roberts]

Thank you! I get it now! I was starting to feel like I was terminally dense!

Now I have to ask my other gazillion questions in seperate threads.

One more "cancellation" question -- if you cancel within 30 days, you can't bank those points, and they expire at the end of your use year, correct?

 

[CarolMN]

Thank you! I get it now! I was starting to feel like I was terminally dense!

Now I have to ask my other gazillion questions in seperate threads.

One more "cancellation" question -- if you cancel within 30 days, you can't bank those points, and they expire at the end of your use year, correct?

Yes, you are correct. Points from a reservation cancelled 30 days or less prior to arrival go into the holding account. Holding account points cannot be banked and they expire at the end of the use year. You cannot use them for a reservation unless you make the reservation 60 days or less prior to arrival.

Also (and I'm surprised no one else has mentioned this yet), there is no November use year. For whatever reason, DVC decided not to offer January, May, July or November use years.

IMHO, if you normally travel in early December, a use year of August, September, October or December would work just fine for you. We normally travel in late November/early December also and have an August use year.

With an August use year, you have until the end of the following January to bank up to 100% of your annual allotment of points. So as long as we cancel at least 31 days before arrival, I know I'll be able to bank all of my points if I can't use them before they expire.

 

[Buttercup Roberts]

Wow you guys are the best! Thank you so much for taking the time to answer. I know it must be tempting sometimes to just say "click on Search, this has been discussed on this forum before".