Canadian Health Care System

[taylor1293]

Teresa, welcome to the thread!!

Thanks

I have a few questions for you if you don't mind. I have lived in the US a few times with employer-provided health coverage & have fortunately not needed to use it. I was wondering, exactly what you get for your $900. I was told I had excellent coverage, when I lived down there, but what does that mean nowadays? And what makes yours crappy? Do youget unlimited care for any illness or accident? How much input does your insurer have in your care?

I don't mind at all . I would have to look at my policy, but from memory, this is what my family of 4 gets.

$25 doctor visit copay

$75 urgent care (after hours care)

$200 ER visit. This is base cost. If admitted from the ER, I believe then it pays 80% and I pay 20%. Until I reach my $1,500 deductible. Then I think it may pay 100% after. Maybe?

Each of us have a $1,500 deductible (although, there is a total family maximum deductible, I'm pretty sure it's around $4,500).

After the deductible is met, then I believe they pay 80% and we pay 20% until the out of pocket maximum is met. Then they pay 100%.

There is both an individual maxiumum out of pocket and family maximum out of pocket. I'd have to look to see what those are.

I think the lifetime maxium of the policy is either 1 or 2 million, that is pretty standard for most insurance policies here.


On a more personal note, I need to get a CT scan, no co-pay applies towards this type of service. I would have to pay for 100% of it. I have not used my insurance this year, therefore, have not applied anything towards the deductible. The only benefit of my insurance, in this case, is that medical facilities and insurance companies work out "deals" that the medical facility will only charge X amount of dollars for something. So, if I were uninsured, and walked in off the street, I would have to pay the (throwing out numbers here) $1,200 fee, but having insurance means they are only allowed to charge me $600. How lucky am I , lol

I find this to be a true statement. I would add this --definitely case of I've got mine...to heck with you. But she is really the only one on the thread against UHC who at the same time acknowledges that she would like to see all Americans have some kind of coverage --she just doesn't want to help pay for it.

Doesn't make a whole lot of sense does it?

 

[Yzma and Kronk]

So as not to stir up the pot even more....

I was giving a different perspective because I have experienced both.

I guess what I was trying to say is I liked both systems and I disliked both systems for totally different reasons. Based on my experience, I preferred what we had in the U.S.

To clarify what I meant by "preventative" vs. "reactive", I was speaking from my limited experience, not necessarily the big picture which encompasses obesity, smoking, etc. What I found in Canada were my doctors were reacting to current medical situations and didn't necessarily have the time or resources to access me for future concerns. In the US we received much more preventative screening such as earlier testing, wellness appointments, etc. along with the current issue. Plus, I will admit I was always treated much better. But in the US, the medical system is a money making business and I was a customer. In Canada we are consumers, which is different. Not bad, just different.

Even though this has become a spirited discussion, IMO the two systems just can't be compared.

As someone pointed out....we are happy with what we have, and she is happy with what she has. I agree, and to add to it - most Americans are probably happy with what they have.

However, I do not agree with this statement:

She is fortunate..most are not.

Yes, she is fortunate.....SOME are not.

 

[Csaks]

Just came back from the community board and am not too bad for wear. Some of those folks are nasty. Ducklite is something else 35,000, post and still writing now. She had not replied to me yet??
The numbers rolling around there are amazing 1000 to 3000 a MONTH for some people to get care WOW. I'd be screwed. The kind of house you could buy with that cash, just imagine.

 

[Yzma and Kronk]

To add (as I just saw Taylor's post...)

The fix in the US is access to affordable insurance. People need to be able to choose the plan that is affordable and will suit their situation.

This is where (dare I say it....) the US government should intervene and impose regulations on Insurance companies.

Much like our government does with Pharmaceutical companies, hence cheaper drugs here.

However, I'm not going to post that over on the CB

Why?

I cannot imagine the uproar that would cause!

 

[Csaks]

She replied, wow no changing her mind. What she needs is to lose her job and the hubby lose his and I bet she would be the first one screaming for help with her medical care.

 

[ducklite]

I would like to think that ducklite is too busy working paying off her insurance premiums to post here, although she does seem to be pretty busy on the other board.
I wonder, of her employer, who is paying the premium is aware of the time she spends on-line ?

My employer doesn't pay my premium, I don't have my coverage through the company I work for. If you've got something to say, have the courage to say it to my face.

 

[ducklite]

She replied, wow no changing her mind. What she needs is to lose her job and the hubby lose his and I bet she would be the first one screaming for help with her medical care.

You are wrong. I'd use my savings to buy a private plan.

 

[angwill]

Hi all I am the second American to find this thread. It is really nice to hear from Canadians how they feel about their UHC.

Are there malpractic lawsuits in Canada that can be filed against hospitals and their workers?

One thing in the USA is that lawyers, insurance companies, and doctors are big financial supporters of politicians. I did read an article recently that the biggest organization that protested UHC back when the Clintons were in office and trying to reform our health care have now changed their tunes because the uninsured our draining our economy more than they realized back then.

I have been researching UHC because I like to make sure I am informed and not just believe rumors or opinions. It is the people that live it that can give the best info so thanks for this thread. There has been talk by the political candidates here in the US about UHC as a platform to run on for the presidency so there have been rumor emails going around. If you go to snopes dot com and put in Canadian health care you will see one of them. The website is a site that researches email rumors and tells truths about them. It is and interesting read.

Some Americans are very touchy about certain things like UHC and believe what they hear or worry about how it will effect them personally vs everyone as a whole in our country. Sadly, the people who do not have health care are already taxing our system here when they can not pay their bills and have to file bancrupcy or go on assistance so the hospital gets something for their care. Honestly, some of our people with higher incomes in the states pay very near if not the same as some of the Canadian providences (SP) but don't have UHC and that is explained on snopes. IMHO, no matter what the issue or where you live it is lack of understanding of the issue that causes the strongest opinions one way or the other.

Now for my situation: DH and I own our own company and sadly only my DH qualifies for private health care. I have been denied because of tests I had years ago that detected anti nuclear anti bodies in my blood and it doesn't matter that I have no negative health problems due to it. The private insurance companys want to make money and are not willing to chance that someday I might get ill from it and they might lose money even though rates go up each year depending on how much your health care costs them. I will also note that when I worked for a big company with wonderful health insurance back when they were talking about health care reform in the US I was all for it because IMO nobody should have to worry about their health or the health of their loved ones. Yes, there were times I had to fight the insurance company, who took the money from my paycheck, to cover things they should have covered. Then there was the fight when the doctor put the wrong procedure code on the bill. That was just a good reason for the insurance company not to have to pay. Too bad the majority of companies in my area can not afford health care for their employees any longer either.

I am sure you are aware of the obesity rate in the US? Well one of our biggest private health care companies in the US Blue Cross/Blue shield will not give insurance to overweight people and they give you that information along with all the other health issues they will not insure in the packet they send you when you ask for an application. So essentially anyone who is overweight can not get private health insurance here. The sad thing is that if I get seriously ill and were to die my DH would be stuck with my bills and would lose everything as well as me as his wife. Even sadder is that if I got ill I could divorce him to get medical assistance and tax our country instead of him. That's just warped in my opinion.

Anyway, thanks for the 1st hand experiences and for reading my rambling opinions.

 

[DearDaisyinDurham]

And this is where I want US healthcare to head? I don't think so.

Who asked the US to HEAD the same way?


These posts are about our own personal opinions or experiences, right, and they all differ. I am a dual citizen and a veteran of the US military and served in different countries including being stationed overseas. To experience those situations changes your perspective on CHOICE and freedom too.

We could find disgusting horror stories of poor health care, any city, any country.

I joined these boards (esp the Canadian boards) to have fun, not fight.
I would NOT go (for example) to the UK board and tell them that something in their country sucks. That's not fun to me.

Have a good evening everyone.

 

[minnie56]

And this is where I want US healthcare to head? I don't think so.

Who asked the US to HEAD the same way?


These posts are about our own personal opinions or experiences, right, and they all differ. I am a dual citizen and a veteran of the US military and served in different countries including being stationed overseas. To experience those situations changes your perspective on CHOICE and freedom too.

We could find disgusting horror stories of poor health care, any city, any country.

I joined these boards (esp the Canadian boards) to have fun, not fight.
I would NOT go (for example) to the UK board and tell them that something in their country sucks. That's not fun to me.

Have a good evening everyone.

Well, I am British Born! C'mon Daisy, lets go over there and add our 2 cents (or is it 1 after the 50% tax??) and tell them what we think about their system! Oops, it's the same as ours! No fun to be had there...

And to all-- a good night.

 

[PhotobearSam]

Ironically a friend of mine who lives outside of Toronto called me today. She suffers from a dibilitating condition, and has had at least five surgeries in the five years I've known her. She has often waited in pain for weeks for surgery because she has to get on a list. Currently she's waiting for her specialist to call her back due to serious post-op complications--she's got puss leaking from fissures forming in her abdomen--she called two weeks ago, and not only has she not gotten a call back, she can't even get an appointment for over a month. She was in so much pain the other day that she went to the ER. They gave her pain pills and sent her home, telling her to call her doctor in the morning.

She's actually considering selling her house to get the money to come to the US for treatment, because she can't get it there.

And this is where I want US healthcare to head? I don't think so.

I must know thousands of people (we own several businesses in our family and we are involved in politics) and I have known several people who have suffered horrible diseases and I have never heard of such a HORROR story. I think her friend was embellishing a bit if this is true.

If her friend really had these symptoms after surgery, she would have gone to the hospital ER and would have been dealt with right away...Puss leaking from fissures forming in her abdomen...

This is awful. This sounds like a horrible infection and I cannot imagine her not getting treatment. If she really needed treatment, her MP would have stepped in by then...Sounds too over the top for me so I think Ducklite's friend may have over exaggerated a bit (a big bit).

I have know a lot of people who have been really sick and I have yet to hear of a situation like this.

Has anyone else? (First hand accounts only)



I think the fundamental difference between us and the Americans is that we don't seek to PUNISH people who are sick and blame them, we take pity on EVERYONE who is sick and treat them with compassion even if they brought it upon themselves. We should all be judged on how we treat our most vulnerable members of society. It would make the world a better place and us better for being kind.

Just because someone is stupid, weak, uneducated or just plain unlucky, we should still help them.

 

[Csaks]

You are wrong. I'd use my savings to buy a private plan.

So there you go again. First you'd move for health care, then you'd live apart from your spouse for health care and now you'd eat up your savings just for health care. It seems health care is running you and you are happy about it.

Your friend from Toronto needs to stop BSing you or find a new Doctor. If she was that screwed up she should have gone to ER.

 

[ducklite]

I must know thousands of people (we own several businesses in our family and we are involved in politics) and I have known several people who have suffered horrible diseases and I have never heard of such a HORROR story. I think her friend was embellishing a bit if this is true.

If her friend really had these symptoms after surgery, she would have gone to the hospital ER and would have been dealt with right away...Puss leaking from fissures forming in her abdomen...

She did go to the ER right away. They gave her pain pills and told her to call her doctor. The one she had already been waiting two weeks for a call back from. There is no embellishment.

This is awful. This sounds like a horrible infection and I cannot imagine her not getting treatment. If she really needed treatment, her MP would have stepped in by then...Sounds too over the top for me so I think Ducklite's friend may have over exaggerated a bit (a big bit).

No, she's not exaggerating. SHe's got a chronic disease and has had multiple surgeries for it. She's had longer and longer healing times after each. THe last time it took her over six months for her surgical would to fully heal--and that was only after the application of a special vaccum device that she waited for over a month to ahve available to her.

I have know a lot of people who have been really sick and I have yet to hear of a situation like this.

I'm glad your friends are so fortunate.

I think the fundamental difference between us and the Americans is that we don't seek to PUNISH people who are sick and blame them, we take pity on EVERYONE who is sick and treat them with compassion even if they brought it upon themselves. We should all be judged on how we treat our most vulnerable members of society. It would make the world a better place and us better for being kind.

Just because someone is stupid, weak, uneducated or just plain unlucky, we should still help them.

I agree to an extent--but at what cost to the rest of society. For the majority of our most vulnerable they are already getting care through the Medi's. There are a lot of people who could find jobs with benefits, but choose not to because they :like what they do" (take the guy with the broken hand in one of my first posts on that thread as a prime example.) At what point should we make people become responsible for themselves?

 

[ducklite]

So there you go again. First you'd move for health care, then you'd live apart from your spouse for health care and now you'd eat up your savings just for health care. It seems health care is running you and you are happy about it.

Your friend from Toronto needs to stop BSing you or find a new Doctor. If she was that screwed up she should have gone to ER.

Maybe you need to go back and read the original post--she did go to ER. She has a chronic disease that there aren't all that many specialists who treat patients for it. Sometimes finding a new doctor isn't as easy as it sounds.

And really our situation is no different than that of someone where one spouse travels extensively for work. Or does that never happen in Canada? It's called earning a living.

 

[ducklite]

I joined these boards (esp the Canadian boards) to have fun, not fight.
I would NOT go (for example) to the UK board and tell them that something in their country sucks. That's not fun to me.

It's too bad that more of your countrymen haven't figured that out. I came over here only after I was attacked. I'd be happy to leave if you'd stop quoting me. But until then, I'll defend myself.

But the Americans have been called all sorts of nasty things by the Canadians because we don't feel that your model would work in our country. We're not over here criticizing your model, I"m not sure why you are over on the other thread taking pot shots at us.

If you are happy with your insurance, I'm really glad for you. But not everyone in the US is dying in the street or unhappy with thier situation like Michael Moore would lead you to believe. If he's so appalled by it, why didn't he donate all his profits from "Sicko" to fund a clinic? Hmmmm...

 

[ferris198]

Ducklite, I find the story of your friend to be rather disturbing, and/or a little embellished.
In Ontario prior to a person being discharged from hospital, they can discuss with the nursing staff, and social worker on home care upon discharge.
The hospital social worker will discuss with the patient what kind of support system is in place at home, and will often arrange for home health care, if required through Community Care Access Centres. The care will depend on the situation of course, but it can include nursing care to change bandages, check on stitches, help with bathing, basically whatever is required.
The amount of time depends on each individuals situation, it can be daily, it can be once or twice a week. Each situation is different, and treated as such.
And, it is covered under our health care.

 

[PhotobearSam]

Obviously, we are not going to change her mind. The only thing I can say is please don't judge our system for what your friend says she went through.

We are proud of our system and know it works here...We don't say you in the US should have to use our model, but develop your own.

It just seems to us, that if all the taxes you pay for medicare for the poor, all your premiums that you pay insurance companies, and all the PROFITS that clinics and hospitals make could be better used to make a system that is there for all your citizens. Maybe we are oversimplifying the situation but that is how it works here.

I would imagine that if all the $$$ insurance companies make off the American people was instead used for the care f these people, you would all be better off...


I am still waiting to see if anyone here knows ANYONE who has had as bad a time with our system as Ducklite's friend...If not, I suggest that is an extreme aberration and should be seen as such.


Ducklite, you say that not all Americans are dying in the streets because of lack of care...Well, we are not taxed to death here. We have a standard of living that, from what I have seen, rivals the level most people have in the US. We have nice houses, cars, trips, furniture, and we save for retirement like anyone else but we have the security to know that if we get sick tomorrow, nobody can take we will get the care we need and not be denied by a company that we paid thousands to and can now just leave us hanging. I know we won't change your mind but we are sure of our care, in the US, you can only be sure once the Insurance company says yes and by then it might be too late.

 

[CanadianGuy]

I took am a Canadian who lived for 8 years in the U.S.

For the first year of my contract employment, I had no health care coverage provided by my employer. I paid out of pocket for coverage and paid VERY dearly for it.

I had close friends without coverage who literally wouldn't or couldn't go to a doctor or hospital because they knew to do so.. would probably mean financial ruin for them.

Example:

In Los Angeles I woke up one morning in the most excruciating pain of my life. I was vomiting so hard that it eventually started to contain blood. I was convinced my appendix was about to burst.. finally got to the hospital.

Explained my situation, doctor examined me and sent me for a CT scan of my abdomen... I waited 2 hours for the scan.. 25 minutes for the scan itself and then back to the ER.

Eventually, after 2 hours more, the doctor decided I had been bitten by a black widow spider and gave me a prescription for pain and sent me home with the advice that "this will pass by tomorrow" and it did.

They gave me two shots of morphine for the pain and I sat on a gurney in a hallway for the better part of six hours, with the exception of the 25 minutes I went for the CT-Scan. I had a doctors attention for approximately 15 minutes total and I had nurse attention for the two morphine shots, approximately 10 minutes total. Otherwise, I was alone on the gurney till friends came to watch over me.

There was some confusion with the billing and I was actually sent a bill for this because for whatever reason my insurance didn't pay on first billing.

Total cost for this: $7660!!!

Imagine.. if you didn't have insurance... ??

This is a perfect example where the pain was so bad .. so unbelievable.. I seriously thought I was going to die. Anyone in their right mind would go to a hospital.

But in the end, if I were an uninsured, I would have paid almost eight thousand dollars to be told -- this too shall pass.

Ouch.

Knox

 

[ducklite]

Obviously, we are not going to change her mind. The only thing I can say is please don't judge our system for what your friend says she went through.

We are proud of our system and know it works here...We don't say you in the US should have to use our model, but develop your own.

If you go read that thread you'll see that I've put concrete, workable ideas on the table to assist all to get health care without raising taxes or forcing people happy with their current coverage into a national plan. One of the reasons your system works is because you weren't already paying a huge amount of taxes when it was begun, and you have only 10% of the population, so there isn't as much beauracracy.

It just seems to us, that if all the taxes you pay for medicare for the poor, all your premiums that you pay insurance companies, and all the PROFITS that clinics and hospitals make could be better used to make a system that is there for all your citizens. Maybe we are oversimplifying the situation but that is how it works here.

This is where I think many of you are misinformed. Over 70% of the hospitals in this country are government owned or owned by non-profits and run as a not-for-profit. The people covered by the Medi's are a wash, so you can't count any of that money. And most of the insurance companies are operating at less than 3% annual profit.

I would imagine that if all the $$$ insurance companies make off the American people was instead used for the care f these people, you would all be better off...

Like I said, the average is less than a 3% annual profit--that's not going to solve the problem.

I am still waiting to see if anyone here knows ANYONE who has had as bad a time with our system as Ducklite's friend...If not, I suggest that is an extreme aberration and should be seen as such.

Same as many of the cases being thrown around on these threads--the people in "Sicko" for example.

Ducklite, you say that not all Americans are dying in the streets because of lack of care...Well, we are not taxed to death here. We have a standard of living that, from what I have seen, rivals the level most people have in the US. We have nice houses, cars, trips, furniture, and we save for retirement like anyone else but we have the security to know that if we get sick tomorrow, nobody can take we will get the care we need and not be denied by a company that we paid thousands to and can now just leave us hanging. I know we won't change your mind but we are sure of our care, in the US, you can only be sure once the Insurance company says yes and by then it might be too late.

So in Canada any and every proceedure is automatically allowed? Many of the things an insurance company says no to are experimental--but no one ever mentions that when complaining that they were denied coverage. You (collectively) keep making assumptions that people are denied coverage all over the place left and right in the US, and that's simply not happening. Maybe the solution is to better regulate the insurance companies.

 

[Yzma and Kronk]

One last post on this issue from me.

I agree with Daisy in Durham's post.

In as much as Canadian's think our society mirrors that of the US - in a lot of ways that is not correct. Canada is a socialist society, and as such we love our UHC. It's what we know, it's what we like and we TRUST the government to run it for us. In the US this is just not the case.

Something to think about - many posts talk about the high cost of care in the US - $7660 for CAD Guys experience. I think if our system allowed us to see the cost of the procedures we proceive as "free" our health care would be viewed differently. The money to pay has to come from somewhere. And for most in the general public "out of sight - out of mind" applies. I don't even have a clue as to the cost when I had my babies. We trust our government to distribute health care tax dollars appropriately. Which creates problems in our system. But, nothing is perfect!

Ducklite had some valid points and she did come over here to defend herself. She was almost dared to do so. She had an example and we have no right to dispute her story. I have heard and read about similar stories in Canada.

Ducklite - no not every procedure is covered in Canada. There is a menu of items posted in most doctor's offices that are not covered. These are somewhat "inexpensive" items at this point, but I'll bet as our system continues to not be as efficient as it once was, more and more items will be added to this list.

Photobear, I will respectfully disagree with you on this point:

Well, we are not taxed to death here.

We are. And that is just the way it is to pay for our social services. However, you are comfortable with your level of taxation in return for the services it provides. And that's good. That's the way it's supposed to be.