Can someone explain the DVC trading dilemma?

[Dean]

Annie, Carol did a nice job of explaining. Remember the $95 fee that those that trade in to DVC is in addition to the exchange fee they pay. DVC essentially never gives out premier time to II so Xmas and Easter plus summer HH essentially never show up. There will be exceptions in unique circumstances but one can assume it never happens. VB actually is available quite a lot now. II only got about 3 units a year prior to the change to the current system, that has changed a LOT now and II gets quite a bit of inventory there compared to the resort size. Anyone who owns can seek to trade, that is their choice. And there are a subset of choices that are a reasonable value it's just that they are so rarely available other than short notice. IMO this is a dramatically different situation, discussion and decision for someone looking to buy in or add on vs one who already owns enough points to use and to trade. Still there are costs, risks and limitations to trading. There was a thread a few months ago from a longstanding member who traded then had to cancel then couldn't find a replacement they were happy with so essentially lost over 100 points (studio I think).

While I guess it's fair to call the way the guides and even MS presents exchanging as misrepresentation, I don't think it's intentional and I wouldn't personally go that far. I think they simply don't understand the system well enough and tend to drink the Koolade.

Pat, the westgate resort in Gatlinburg is the best there. I wouldn't avoid it but would avoid the sales presentation. Too bad Marriott bailed on the Horizon's project there. Gatlingurg has a fair number of resorts compared to demand but a dirth of quality resorts.

Getaway prices are oftend determined by the destination resort. One can also use the independent exchange companies for such getaways.

 

[Mickey'sApprentice]

Pat, the westgate resort in Gatlinburg is the best there. I wouldn't avoid it but would avoid the sales presentation. Too bad Marriott bailed on the Horizon's project there. Gatlingurg has a fair number of resorts compared to demand but a dirth of quality resorts.

Dean: I've heard numerous times that Disney will be concentrating on the West Coast.

However, with your previous comments about Gatlinburg, I was wondering what your thoughts would be about Disney developing a really high quality timeshare in Gatlinburg and/or on the gulf coast. I love the Polynesian/adventureland sketches for Ko Olina and would love to see the same sort of thing done with Gatlinburg and Frontierland. I know Dolly probably causes a problem unless Disney decided to buy her out. As for Gulf Shores - I don't see a really good theming opportunity other than maybe Jimmy Buffet.

 

[Dean]

Dean: I've heard numerous times that Disney will be concentrating on the West Coast.

However, with your previous comments about Gatlinburg, I was wondering what your thoughts would be about Disney developing a really high quality timeshare in Gatlinburg and/or on the gulf coast. I love the Polynesian/adventureland sketches for Ko Olina and would love to see the same sort of thing done with Gatlinburg and Frontierland. I know Dolly probably causes a problem unless Disney decided to buy her out. As for Gulf Shores - I don't see a really good theming opportunity other than maybe Jimmy Buffet.

My thoughts, for what they are worth. Thus far DVC has not proven the ability or willingness to truly compete with the big boys in timeshare sales. We'll see how they do for actual cold sales in HI that are not related to people who were hooked based on Disney or DVC. The companies they are competing with are willing to offer cash type payments of $100-125, cheap stays and even do trolling deposits in II and/or RCI. They are also willing to push guests to tour and to a varying degree, to push those that tour to buy. I don't think DVC can take a chance on a seasonal destination, esp for places like Gatlinburg, FL panhandle or Branson. I don't see Dollywood as enough of a draw to sustain a resort even if they did buy her out.

I know the kids glove approach are what many like about DVC however it has already likely cost at least 3 other off property resorts due to poor sales at VB and HH. I don't think they can compete well with that approach and know they can't in secondary markets like Gatlinburg.

 

[Mickey'sApprentice]

My thoughts, for what they are worth. Thus far DVC has not proven the ability or willingness to truly compete with the big boys in timeshare sales. We'll see how they do for actual cold sales in HI that are not related to people who were hooked based on Disney or DVC. The companies they are competing with are willing to offer cash type payments of $100-125, cheap stays and even do trolling deposits in II and/or RCI. They are also willing to push guests to tour and to a varying degree, to push those that tour to buy. I don't think DVC can take a chance on a seasonal destination, esp for places like Gatlinburg, FL panhandle or Branson. I don't see Dollywood as enough of a draw to sustain a resort even if they did buy her out.

I know the kids glove approach are what many like about DVC however it has already likely cost at least 3 other off property resorts due to poor sales at VB and HH. I don't think they can compete well with that approach and know they can't in secondary markets like Gatlinburg.

Thanks Dean.

I know you're right.

I'll just keep hoping for something a little closer to home, but won't keep my hopes up.

I do often wonder how VB and HH would have sold if they were introduced now instead of 10 years ago, and if they had been at better locations.

I'm also one of those folks that like the "kid gloves" approach, and hope DVC never changes it!

 

[Dean]

Thanks Dean.

I know you're right.

I'll just keep hoping for something a little closer to home, but won't keep my hopes up.

I do often wonder how VB and HH would have sold if they were introduced now instead of 10 years ago, and if they had been at better locations.

I'm also one of those folks that like the "kid gloves" approach, and hope DVC never changes it!

While I think there are better locations for HH and VB from a selling point, both should have been easy to sell with any real effort and gloabal plan. DVC doesn't have to become westgate to get in the game; Hilton, Westin and Marriott, to name 3, manage to do so without being overly aggressive. I remember a report years ago of a couple that wanted to buy but didn't because they thought they didn't qualify since the guide never asked if they wanted to buy at the end of the presentation.

Given where you live, it's tough to do a top level resort that would be close to you. The FL panhandle is the closest place to think about and it's still very seasonal, has marginal airport options and isn't regarded as a top destination location for the masses though it is for a segment. Too small a segment for a DVC type resort and the inherest costs to build it IMO. Marriott did not complete their plans for Bay Pointe and only built 2 of the 4 planned buildings if I recall correctly. They did convert the others to full condo's as a residence club, I'm not sure how that went from a sales standpoint. Other than that there are few top timeshares in the Panhandle and none I'd put at the very top. The other top ones that come to mind would be Orange Lake PC, both Escapes resorts (PC, Orange Beach) and Club Intrawest in Destin. The old Fairfield company (now Wyndham) took the approach of building very nice (but not top notch) resorts in second tier places like Gatlinburg, Nashville, Crossville (TN, not AL), NC interior and did well it seems for a while but they no longer build new resorts in those type areas from what I can tell. One of the problems is that you need to build resorts that people can afford that will go to those type areas then you need to get them onsite there to see the property.

Marriott also abandoned their plans for the Horizon's in Gatlinburg and a fourth location I can't recall. They totally scraped the project and folded those slightly lessor resorts into their vacation club program making them full members. The original plan was to have a second complete system that had a secondary link so that members of one club could trade to the other but after members of each given system had first crack. I feel the reason they failed in this venture is related to what I talked about above. They were trying to compete with better resorts in Orlando and in second tier locations for Branson and planned for Gatlinburg.

Back to DVC and off property sales. Frankly, I thought HH and VB sold OK, however, they did not meet the companies expecations from a sales standpoint. DVC might be big enough and well establisted with WDW guests and esisting members to sell a place like HI, we'll see. In large part it depends on how well they do wtih the existing members. I don't see DVC necessarily concentrating in the west coast but on places with a lot of inherent interest and other draws. I don't see the HI project remaining with Disney for the long haul unless they establish several resorts in the islands, we'll see and I do hope I'm wrong. Hopefully they'll keep control of the vacation club if they sell the hotel portion.

What I think they could do would be to build resorts in locations where they could use the cruise ships to sell them. Places like Cancun, Aruba, Cayman's, Bermuda even DR. They already have the DVC sales staff in place to do that from the cruise ships and could also establish a small sales force onsite. They could do the sales presentation on the boat as they do now and offer a quite trip out to see the resort combined with an island tour enroute for free.

 

[tomandrobin]

What I think they could do would be to build resorts in locations where they could use the cruise ships to sell them. Places like Cancun, Aruba, Cayman's, Bermuda even DR. They already have the DVC sales staff in place to do that from the cruise ships and could also establish a small sales force onsite. They could do the sales presentation on the boat as they do now and offer a quite trip out to see the resort combined with an island tour enroute for free.

I have felt that the Disney Cruise line will play a role on the west coast and the new Hawaiian resort. But I had not thought about them using the cruise ships as a floating timeshare sales force for a couple Carribbean locations.

Cancun could work well since the resort there are right to use, similar to DVC now. Aruba has stopped thier tax incentives for new resorts, that's why Westin canceled thier proposed timeshare resort there. Bahamas would also be a good fit, especially with thier established presence. DR, Cayman would be convient and welcomed.

 

[SuzanneSLO]

My guess is that Disney sees the HI property as being particularly attractive to the Asian market where Disney is already a household name. -- Suzanne

 

[Brian Noble]

The old Fairfield company (now Wyndham) took the approach of building very nice (but not top notch) resorts in second tier places like Gatlinburg, Nashville, Crossville (TN, not AL), NC interior and did well it seems for a while but they no longer build new resorts in those type areas from what I can tell.

They're still doing a little bit of this, but partly thorugh acquisition. They've got a new building or two in the Poconos, are developing a new resort in Gatlinburg, and bought out something on the Panhandle and another a couple dozen miles inland from Myrtle Beach.

 

[hakepb]

[quoteean] I don't see DVC necessarily concentrating in the west coast but on places with a lot of inherent interest and other draws [/quote]

I think DVC is wanting to concentrate on west coast money. I think they have lower saturation rates within their west coast targeted demographics. That might not mean West Coast locations, but favorable locations may sell better.

 

[hakepb]

That would be quite interesting if DVC could build some villas on their island, Castaway Key and have an ownership that included a partial-capacity cruise ship ownership.
DVC'ers could then use the cruise ships as transportation (might have to stay 3, 4 or 7 days at a time). Especailly if you could get one room (up to 4 people) cruise transportation for 100 total points. (You would only be on the ship 2 total nights round trip)

 

[spiceycat]

okay not timeshares - but definitely very nice marriott in ala - on an island
http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?p=28304218&posted=1#post28304218

so they do have something.

 

[Dean]

okay not timeshares - but definitely very nice marriott in ala - on an island
http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?p=28304218&posted=1#post28304218

so they do have something.

Point clear and Bay Pointe are both nice resorts but neither are comparable to the top Marriott's. I think both are Cat 5 out of the 8 levels Marriott hotels have (just went up from 7 to 8). However, I do feel there's a whole level of increased demand to make a timeshare work. Legends Edge was linked to Bay Pointe and still didn't sell. Plus those are two of the easiest Marriott's to get deals or reward stays from what I understand.

I do think a slightly different approach might be workable. Something like the DVC combined options but with the timeshare being a smaller but integral component of the hotel portion where they are run essentially as one system. It'd work to share amenities but harder to do a full slate of activities.