Camping and food safety

[IluvKingLouis]

I'm not a seasoned camper, and my husband (also not seasoned) plans to do a 5-6 day camping trip with a friend.

He plans to buy a vacuum pack/sealer machine and vacuum pack cooked meat (tuna, chicken, etc) and believes that because it is vacuumed packed it would be safe (without any refridgeration). I disagree but can't seem to provide a cogent arguement as why this seems unsafe to me.

His thoughts are the method (vacuum packing) would suck out all the air so you couldn't have any bacteria growth.

Please chime in. I'd hate for him to get food poisoning in some remote mountain campground.

I usually don't post to this section of the DISboards, but I thought I might have a good chance at getting a knowledgeable response!

TIA
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[ftwildernessguy]

Ever hear of anaerobic bacteria? They live in the abscence of oxygen and can be some of the most virulent of bacteria. Vacuum sealing does NOT provide food safety in and of itself.

 

[Rhonda]

They sell vacuum-sealed meat in the grocery store - and it's in the refrigerator section. If what your DH says is true, then we would find meat on the shelves instead. Of course, there is canned tuna and chicken, etc. I don't know what keeps them from spoiling.

 

[IluvKingLouis]

Of course, there is canned tuna and chicken, etc. I don't know what keeps them from spoiling.

that is exactly my DH arguement. I think they pump in some type of gas to keep it from spoiling, but I don't know. Would love to see someone explain this.

 

[ftwildernessguy]

They sell vacuum-sealed meat in the grocery store - and it's in the refrigerator section. If what your DH says is true, then we would find meat on the shelves instead. Of course, there is canned tuna and chicken, etc. I don't know what keeps them from spoiling.

Canned meats are brought up to high temperature IN THE CAN so the bacteria are killed. Did you know that Campbell's soup is put in the can raw, and the canning process cooks the soup?

 

[IluvKingLouis]

Canned meats are brought up to high temperature IN THE CAN so the bacteria are killed. Did you know that Campbell's soup is put in the can raw, and the canning process cooks the soup?

Jim, do you know how they do the vacuum sealed envelopes of tuna which are by the cans? The envelopes are silvery, so maybe they get heated too?

 

[ftwildernessguy]

that is exactly my DH arguement. I think they pump in some type of gas to keep it from spoiling, but I don't know. Would love to see someone explain this.

No gas is pumped in. If that were the case, canned goods would be pressurized. Instead, they are in a vacuum (hence the rush of air you hear going into the can when you open it). When people used to home can, the jars were placed in a pot of water. The water was brought to a boil, then the lids were screwed down and the jars allowed to cool. As they cooled, the contents contracted and the lids sealed. The boiling drove off the air in the contents, and the heat killed the bacteria. Normal cooking temperature followed by placing in a bag and having the air sucked out by a machine is insufficient alone to prevent bacterial growth.

A sign that food is contaminated with a really bad anearobe is a bulging can. Eat this, and you could get botulism.

 

[ftwildernessguy]

Jim, do you know how they do the vacuum sealed envelopes of tuna which are by the cans? The envelopes are silvery, so maybe they get heated too?

That is correct - the tuna or chicken is brought up to high temps in the bag and the bag vacuum sealed at the same time.

 

[KristinU]

Possibly a stupid question - but why not just use canned meats? Or are they backpacking? If they're car camping I don't see why they wouldn't just use the canned tuna and chicken. If they're backpacking they could always dehydrate the meats and use them in soups and stews, if you have or can borrow a dehydrator.

 

[IluvKingLouis]

Possibly a stupid question - but why not just use canned meats? Or are they backpacking? If they're car camping I don't see why they wouldn't just use the canned tuna and chicken. If they're backpacking they could always dehydrate the meats and use them in soups and stews, if you have or can borrow a dehydrator.

they are backpacking a section of the Colorado trail. They are trying to keep their backpacks as light as possible.Plus you have to pack out your trash as well.

Thanks for the explanations on the commercial vacuum sealing.

 

[KristinU]

they are backpacking a section of the Colorado trail. They are trying to keep their backpacks as light as possible.Plus you have to pack out your trash as well.

Cool, gotcha! DH and I used to backpack and canoe-camp...so I hear you on the need to pack out garbage and stay lightweight. I hope he has a wonderful time!

 

[VACAMPER]

MRE's. Sold in the camping section of most stores. Sounds like a fun trip.

 

[big kahuna1]

Exactly! They would need MRE type(dehydrated) foods. Just vacuum sealing alone is not enough unless you freeze and/or refrigerate.

 

[ahecht]

MRE's. Sold in the camping section of most stores. Sounds like a fun trip.

I backpacked through the rockies with Mountain House brand dehydrated meals from REI. I had a small portable camp stove to heat water, and you just pour the heated water into the bag and let it sit for 10 minutes. Bringing a camp stove and dehydrated meals is much lighter than bringing vacuum-sealed MREs due to the water in the food (we filtered and chemically treated our own water from the streams to cook with).

Another option is cured meats. There are many shelf-stable salamis, pepperonis, and summer sausages that are wonderful when hiking (since your body needs the salt anyway). Just look for the salami loafs that aren't shrink-wrapped and aren't in the refrigerator section (they are usually wrapped in wax paper).

Anyway, I hope he has a wonderful time. Chasm Lake in the Rockies is still one of the most breathtaking places i've ever been.

 

[big kahuna1]

Things to know about Vacuum sealed foods:




To avoid the risks related to vacuum sealed foods follow these safe food handling tips:


Vacuum sealing food does not replace the need to pressure can or water bath home canned foods.
Wash hands before and during the vacuum sealing process.
Try not to touch food with your hands. Use clean spoons, tongs or something else to handle the food.
Be sure to keep utensils, cutting boards and counters clean.
Keep vacuum sealed foods in the refrigerator or freezer. Dry food, like crackers and nuts, can be stored at room temperature.
Thaw frozen food in the refrigerator.

Now you know the Rest of the Story!

 

[IluvKingLouis]

Another option is cured meats. There are many shelf-stable salamis, pepperonis, and summer sausages that are wonderful when hiking (since your body needs the salt anyway). Just look for the salami loafs that aren't shrink-wrapped and aren't in the refrigerator section (they are usually wrapped in wax paper).

This sounds like a great idea too. I know I've seen these types of salami's/summer sausages but I can't think of where! I will have to do some looking around.

Now you got me in the mood for summer sausage and crackers!!

 

[ntsammy5]

Tell him to take MREs along.

Tell him if he likes dysentery he'll love eating that vacuum packed stuff after a few days. It'll add a unique perspective!

BTW we still do home can chili sauce and peaches (not together though). The worst part of home canning is all the boiling water!

 

[ntsammy5]

I backpacked through the rockies with Mountain House brand dehydrated meals from REI.

I did that too along the AT -- also in Iraq and the older c-rats in SE Asia and Germany, not to mention CONUS. Mmmmmm, great stuff. Back in the 80s when MREs first came out, we used to have to make sure that the bags weren't bulging before eating them They had a lot of trouble with them early on. A lot of bacteria in them sometimes. They're a lot better now.

 

[ftwildernessguy]

I did that too along the AT -- also in Iraq and the older c-rats in SE Asia and Germany, not to mention CONUS. Mmmmmm, great stuff. Back in the 80s when MREs first came out, we used to have to make sure that the bags weren't bulging before eating them They had a lot of trouble with them early on. A lot of bacteria in them sometimes. They're a lot better now.

Man those first MRE's were something. They were a combination of dehydrated and ready to eat stuff. The dehydrated strawberries took all day to rehydrate. As a whole, they tasted awful. The newer ones are better, but Al, did you notice that even if you had a variety, you got really tired of them after about 3 days? They are also a great source of fat and sodium. Despite the fact that you need the calories hiking, military MREs were designed for combat soldiers carrying a LOT of equipment in very harsh climates. Just about everything in them is fortified, with the assumption that no one was going to eat all of them, maybe just parts. Army regulations restrict soldiers to two MRE's per day, with the other meal as field mess (tray rats) or Jimmy Deans - still don't know how they got that contract, or mess hall food (dems good eats, man!).

 

[ntsammy5]

Yeah, I never, ever came close to finishing one of them. Even though you needed a lot of energy, I was always way to tired to eat much. Especially in the heat! I loved the t-rats -- especially liked the lasagna ones.

We had a couple of mess Sergeants -- an Italian and a German who were absolutely amazing! I just left them completely alone and we had some really, really good food from them. Gotta love thoase old MKTs.

When we were in Germany in the 60s in the Cav, we had old c-rats from the Korean War that they were trying to get rid of so they just opened them all up and fed them to us in the mess halls. I was a young specialist then and still remember being on KP opening those stupid things all day long. Everyone had their own personal P38 then