Campaigning in Church?

[Galahad]

Maybe we'll get a few rational posts in before the descends to vitriol...we'll see.

Is this just a matter of "Only Nixon could go to China"? Is it OK for Democrats to campaign in church....during services....etc but not OK for Republicans? If you would object to the President standing in the pulpit asking for the vote of this congregation or that do you have the same objection to Senator Kerry doing it?

I don't want politics anywhere near my religion so I would object to it either way, but I'm curious.

 

[EsmeraldaX]

I don't really think either party should campaign at religious services unless they are specifically invited by that particular congregation. In which case it would not really be campaigning but coming to speak for a group who invited them.

 

[TerriP]

I'm with you Galahad, I don't want politics in my church. While I acknowledge that my faith plays a big part in my voting (it plays a big part in ALL my major decisions), I don't want campaigns in my church.

 

[WDWHound]

I'm not a big fan of campaining from the pulpit by either side.

 

[Kendra17]

This really bothers me, too. I have read that Clinton spoke at a couple of churches and I have read that Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton still politicize the pulpit. When I read that, I thought it reeked of hypocrisy. I'm not sure what is the technicality that makes certain speaking permissible? Do you know?

 

[Galahad]

I'm not sure what is the technicality that makes certain speaking permissible? Do you know?

Oh, it's all permissible. Free speech. But if you think that "faith based initiatives" violated separation of church and state, then to be willing to hawk for votes in church seems a bit inconsistent.

 

[Tinks]

Actually, I think it's illiegal. My DH and I heard on the radio that Kerry went to 2 churches this weekend to raise the vote and my DH's first words out of his mouth were "that's illegal"! (He's an attorney so I hope he knows) I believe it is illegal to campaign in houses of worship.

 

[Kendra17]

I'm pretty convinced it's illegal, also. But, I don't know why exactly. And, there were some watchdog groups that "okay'd" some of the Democrats that had spoken at churches. . .including Clinton.

 

[DisneyDmbNut]

Originally posted by Tinks
Actually, I think it's illiegal. My DH and I heard on the radio that Kerry went to 2 churches this weekend to raise the vote and my DH's first words out of his mouth were "that's illegal"! (He's an attorney so I hope he knows) I believe it is illegal to campaign in houses of worship.

What law says that....I have never heard that...I think if he was invited to speak at a church, then I am assuming they wanted him there.

 

[Nancy]

I go to church to hear and participate in a Mass...not to hear politics. Now if a church group invites someone to speak it should be done outside of regular services...not during the Mass. If they want to take God out of our schools, pledge, etc....they should not be allowed to campaign at a house of worship durinmg services.

 

[minniepumpernickel]

I don't know about church but I have seen local officials from both sides attend charity events at my JCC. One even served food at one of the "race for a cause, things. " A local woman judge also comes by. I guess they talk politics if they are asked questions. Is this considered campaigning?

 

[Galahad]

Originally posted by minniepumpernickel
I don't know about church but I have seen local officials from both sides attend charity events at my JCC. One even served food at one of the "race for a cause, things. " A local woman judge also comes by. I guess they talk politics if they are asked questions. Is this considered campaigning?

Maybe it is....but what I'm referring to is when a candidate, invited or not, gets in the pulpit, behind the lectern, whatever...in Church, Temple etc. essentially asking for votes in between scripture lessons and passing the basket.

 

[Kendra17]

Originally posted by minniepumpernickel
I don't know about church but I have seen local officials from both sides attend charity events at my JCC. One even served food at one of the "race for a cause, things. " A local woman judge also comes by. I guess they talk politics if they are asked questions. Is this considered campaigning?

I think the JCC doesn't actually qualify as a synagogue, though--just as the Y wouldn't qualify as a church. Clinton spoke at this JCC (yes, there is one down here in Nashville, Minnie!), too, and that's permitted.

There is a law here, though. But, there's some loopholes which allow certain "campaigners" to campaign in the churches--although when permitted, it's because they supposedly aren't actually "campaigning". I know there's a law against it, but I don't know why. . .even if they're invited.

Galahad, c'mon, this is your thread! You should try to find out!

 

[bsnyder]

I have never heard of such a law.

And I don't have a problem with it, in theory. If a church congregation invites a politician to speak from the pulpit, I think they've got to know they're probably going to get a political speech. If that offends some in the congregation, the church ought to expect that too, and be willing to deal with the fallout.

 

[Geoff_M]

I agree that regardless of which side of the fence it's on, I don't think it's a good idea. As far as legality goes, I don't think it's inherently illegal for a candidate to address a religious organization on their turf. However, such institutions CAN lose their not-for-profit tax status if their engauge in politics by openly endorsing candidates, fundraising, etc. Looking fact at the Al Gore/Buddist Temple incident, I think the main legality in question was the fact that the nuns that supposedly were donating the money were merely fronts for illegal contributions. (How many people that have taken vows of poverty have a few extra thou stashed away?)

 

[rcyannacci]

It's an interesting question, really. Churches are some of the few places where we as modern citizens discuss broad issues, whether they be civic or spiritual, in a local setting. Our time in the church is spent thinking beyond ourselves, and many churches have initiatives that go towards support local community efforts.

So much of politics is now conducted virtually, with televised debates that simulate a town hall meeting or news broadcasts that give us the latest sound bytes and updates. Because I don't live in a swing state, this is really my only access to the presidential campaign. Candidates won't be coming to my community, so my church might be my only purely local venue to engage in this type of discussion.

I realize that my answer is more concerned with secular questions than religious ones, but I guess that's where my thoughts are today.

 

[peachgirl]

No, I have no problem with religious organizations having whomever they choose speak from the pulpit. A church consists of it's members and if they want a candidate to speak, it's their business.

I would be much more offended at my pastor for telling me who to vote for than having the candidate himself ask for my vote.

Which is basically what my church does at every turn....campaign for whichever Republican happens to be running and tell us we're basically committing a sin by not voting "their" way.


It's a serious issue I have with my religion and I haven't quite figured out what to do about it.

It's not illegal to speak as a candidate in a church. Any risk involved is a risk to the organization, not the candidate, and for tax purposes only. Sorry, you'll have to find another "scandal" to pin on Kerry.

From the IRS:

Inviting a Candidate to Speak

Depending on the facts and circumstances, an organization may invite political candidates to speak at its events without jeopardizing its tax-exempt status. Political candidates may be invited in their capacity as candidates, or individually (not as a candidate).

Speaking as a Candidate:
When a candidate is invited to speak at an organization event as a political candidate, the organization must take steps to ensure that:

It provides an equal opportunity to the political candidates seeking the same office,


It does not indicate any support of or opposition to the candidate (This should be stated explicitly when the candidate is introduced and in communications concerning the candidate’s attendance.), and


No political fundraising occurs.

 

[brerrabbit]

I can't speak to other states but I am sort of up to speed on the election laws in Texas for other reasons and how they relate to non profit organizations. Background : a candidate for a local election is the President of a local youth sports organization and uses its opening cerimonies to anounce his candidecy and uses the organizations mailing list to direct mail campaign literature. I researched the situation because I was in the middle of the whole thing and here is what I found. A non profit 501 (c) (3) organization cannot contribute anything of value to a political campaign. It does not have to be monetary. In the example the mailing list is something that advertisers and campaigns pay for, so the use would be considered a thing of value which would put the non profit status of the organization at potential risk. Additionally, in Texas the law also states that if one candidate is extended an invitation to address its membership then all candidates in that race should be extended the same opportunity.
Offering one and not the other could be valued in terms of exposure to the public, which could be considered a for of advertising and therefore once again something of value. The interpretation of the law gets a little sticky if the candidate is a member of the organization being addressed because that could just be a perk of being a member. Texas takes this kind of thing very seriously and investigates a number of these incidents each election cycle. In the end the fine for the candidate is minimal but the cost to the organization can be huge in terms of loosing their non profit status. As far as Presidential candidates speaking in churches it seems that I recall that happening quite a bit.

As far as my personal beliefs, I would not like my worship service interupted by a political candidate but would not mind if they were invited to speak at other functions at the church during non worship times. Just recently the Women's group of our church had the woman who is our State Representative in Austin as a speaker. I did not attend but would be interested to know if she did any campaigning during the speech.

Final word, since George Bush is Methodist as is the church I attend it might be okay for him to speak to us because he is a member of the United Methodist Conferance in Texas.

 

[peachgirl]

An interesting article along these discussion lines, and from a site that is decidedly not liberal...


http://www.baptiststandard.com/postnuke/index.php?module=htmlpages&func=display&pid=1966

A portion of the article...

--Efforts by the Bush-Cheney re-election campaign to target churches--including soliciting church directories--have raised concerns from the leader of Texas Baptists' ethics commission.

The Bush-Cheney document sets forth a detailed plan of action for religious volunteers. One section lists 22 "coalition coordinator" duties and lays out a timeline.

By July 31, for example, the coordinator is to "send your church directory to your state Bush-Cheney '04 headquarters or give to a ... (campaign) field representative." By Aug. 15, the coordinator is to "talk to your church's seniors or 20- to 30-something group about Bush/Cheney '04."

By Oct. 24, the volunteer should "distribute voter guides in your church" and "finish calling all pro-Bush members of your church and encourage them to vote."

 

[The Mystery Machine]

Originally posted by Galahad


I don't want politics anywhere near my religion so I would object to it either way, but I'm curious.

I agree.

As a person from St. Louis, MO & a Catholic we have the ever famous inflamatory Arch-Bishop Raymond Burke here now. He angers me oh so much.