Camcorder help. I don't want to screw this up again.

[ColleenS]

I'm looking to buy a new camcorder. I bought my first one in July. It was a hard disk JVC similar to this
While the quality of the video was average, the type of file that the camera recorded in was something made up by JVC. Even if I try to convert them, they can't be edited by any software by JVC's and it's crap. Horrible

So I need a new one, one that records in files I can edit. I don't care if it's hard drive or DVD or MiniDV. I just want to be able to do some simple editing. So does anyone have any general suggestion? What should I look for? I really like this one, but will I be able to edit the videos?
http://reviews.cnet.com/Sony_Handycam_DCR_DVD408/4505-6500_7-32306101.html?tag=pdtl-list&ar=o

ANY suggestions? Recommendations? HELP!

 

[Groucho]

I'm not a camcorder expert but I do know that the MiniDV will give you better picture quality than the hard drive or mini-DVD camcorders, and they all use a pretty standard format that nearly any video editing program should deal with well. As an upside, they're usually cheaper than the hard drive/mini-DVD ones, and will be more reliable than a hard-drive-based one.

 

[fuse04]

I agree with Groucho. We bought a new one last year and went for mini dv because of the better quality, no danger of hard disk failure, do not have to worry about downloading a full hard drive while on long holiday, easy storage media, proven technology. We got a very good deal on a panasonic GS300; went for a 3ccd camcorder in order to capture better colours at night.

Rob

 

[RitchG]

And I agree with Groucho and fuse04: MiniDV is the way to go. There's so much compression to fit the video on a DVD or hard drive that the quality during/after editing is really poor.

I like the Canon 'corders, we have an Optura Xi (no longer in the line-up) and really like it. The only thing I don't like is that it doesn't have a "line-in" jack for the wireless mic; I have to use work's cameras (also Canons, XLS line) for that stuff (the difference that putting a mic on the subject being recorded is amazing).
---Ritch

 

[ColleenS]

Thanks for the replies

So far all of the replies suggest MiniDV. What is the difference between MiniDV and DVD?

 

[RitchG]

Well, DVD was designed to be a "destination" format, that means that it was meant to be used as the last step in making video. It wasn't designed originally to be edited at all; it was designed to save as much space as posisble. So it emphasizes getting rid of as much of the original video data as possible (it is "lossy") and still show our eyes a moving image.

MiniDV, on the other hand, was designed to be the first in a chain of video processing, so it maintains as much video data as possible (it is "lossless") while not having to use a dozen tapes to record an hour's worth of video.

In the camera, the DVD (and hard drive) type system looses even more data becuase it has to do the conversion as the video is recorded, in "real-time", again using methods that weren't really designed for that. And MiniDV was.
HTH.
---Ritch

 

[MarkBarbieri]

Mini-dv, hard disk, flash, and dvd are physical formats. Each can be used for different data formats.

Reliability is a complex subject. I haven't seen data on camcorder reliability. I would guess that flash is most reliable in every way. Tapes have frequent small problems like dirty heads, misaligned heads, dropouts, etc. I bet they have more frequent problems than hard drives, but the impact of the problems is smaller. They also make archiving easy. Most people with hard drive cameras are likely not to do good backups.

DV, MPEG2, and MPEG4 are all lossy compression. The advantage of DV is that each frame is comppressed by itself, making it easier to edit. The others have more effecient compression and can get better picture quality at the same bit rate. Manufacturers use much lower bit rates for MPEG cameras, so you don't actually get better picture, you get more video in the same storage space.

I recommend a high def camcorder. If you go standard def, I also recommend mini-dv.

One more thing to consider is that manufacturers are moving away from mini-dv. It'll probably be a slow process, but it has started.

 

[ndelaware]

Thanks for the replies

So far all of the replies suggest MiniDV. What is the difference between MiniDV and DVD?

MiniDV = Digital Video (Tape)

DVD = Digital Video Disk


The recording quality of the tapes are much better.

 

[ColleenS]

Thanks again for the replies.

One more thing to consider is that manufacturers are moving away from mini-dv. It'll probably be a slow process, but it has started.

Which scares me. After the first few replies here suggested MiniDV I did a search and found four articles on how it's a dying medium.

Bottom line is I want to be able to edit videos together, add music, and clip out parts I don't like. I don't want to do any thing fancy.

Mark, after you suggest High Def I did a search and found that they seem to be about $1000, which is a little more than I wanted to spend. I'm okay with good quality. I don't need the best, but don't want to end up with crap.

What about this High Def DVD? http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start?ProductSKU=HDRUX1&Dept=cameras&CategoryName=dcc_DICamcorders_DVDHandycamCamcorders

Does the High Def make up for the fact that it's DVD and non MiniDV in terms of picture quality?

Is there anywhere where I can see the difference between all of these?

Thanks!

 

[MarkBarbieri]

High def requires much more computer power to edit. If you don't have or won't buy a fast computer, you'll be miserable editing HD.

I suspect that you'd be happiest with moderately priced mini-dv camera. The big appeal of dvd camcorders is for those that don't want to edit.

I recommend that you spend time at camcorderinfo.com. I think you'll learn more there than you will here.

I'd give you a better response, but I'm typing this on my phone inside a tent on a camping trip.

 

[PhotobearSam]

I can't tell you much because video is DH's thing but he bought us a new Canon Elura 100 last august and he says it works great for him.

It's miniDV and even I can use it and not screw up too much.

I think you have to go with one that feels really good in your hand, if not, you won't use it much.

i hope you find what you are looking for.

 

[photo_chick]

We have an older Canon MiniDV (ZR 50) . We edit tons of video together from it. However with ours you don't convert the files directly, but rather capture the clips you want. DH does most of them. His video stuff is at http://www.toddworld.com/interactive/videos.html

He has used a few different video editing applications. Right now I think he mostly uses Vegas on the PC. I am simple (and lazy) when I do mine, I stick with iMovie on my mac!

Some of the older videos we have were shot on our even older 8mm Canon. And some of the older ones are not very high resolution because at the time DH made them the web could not support the files being any larger and DVD burners were not out yet. (way back in the stone ages, about 8 years ago)

 

[ColleenS]

Thanks so much to everyone who replied.

Everyone has given such good advice. I have so much to think about. I've been reading reviews at cnet and epinions and camcorderinfo.com as suggested. I still don't know what kind I'm going to go with, but at least I have a much better idea of my options.

photo_chick, thanks for the link to your dh's site. It's his Little video about your daughter? It made me tear up a little, he does nice work.


Mark, thanks for replying on your camping trip. I must say I got a chuckle out of you checking the Dis while in a tent.

It's miniDV and even I can use it and not screw up too much.

I think you have to go with one that feels really good in your hand, if not, you won't use it much.

This makes me feel better. I guess one of my concerns is that I don't know what to do with the tapes. Can I transfer them to my computer and then edit them and burn them to DVDs? Also is it a lot of work since it's just one 'stream' of tape and it's not divided (like it would be on a DVD camcorder)
I agree about the fact that it must feel good. I'm going to make sure it "fits" me before I buy.

Again thank you guys so much!

 

[photo_chick]

photo_chick, thanks for the link to your dh's site. It's his Little video about your daughter? It made me tear up a little, he does nice work.

Thanks for checking out his stuff. Yes. I think the "Little" video actually has both DD and DS in it. I think I will keep DH around! If for nothing else than the video editing skills he has! He is pretty handy with photoshop too.

I think my favorite one is the one to "God Bless the USA" that he did right after 9/11.

We do have drawers full of tapes around here. Most of them we go through, grab the good stuff and store those clips on dvd or something so we don't have to get the tape back out. When the movies are all edited and done DH makes a nifty little dvd complete with menus to give out to family and such.

 

[Anewman]

Added note on HD camcorders...

Think about how you are going to view your video after editing, if you are not going to burn them to HD-DVD or BLU-RAY you may not need the HD video in the first place.

If you are going to burn to Regular DVD(Rs), there is no real need for the added resolution.

Lets remember that HD capable burners and players are still very expensive, so you would also need to spend big bucks on them(not just an expensive PC).

 

[ColleenS]

Added note on HD camcorders...

Think about how you are going to view your video after editing, if you are not going to burn them to HD-DVD or BLU-RAY you may not need the HD video in the first place.

If you are going to burn to Regular DVD(Rs), there is no real need for the added resolution.

Lets remember that HD capable burners and players are still very expensive, so you would also need to spend big bucks on them(not just an expensive PC).

Thanks, your post coupled with the fact that HD takes so much computer power to run, I don't think it will work for me. Though we will in the next few years, we don't yet have an HD capable TV, neither is my laptop. So there is no point in getting an HD camcorder.

Thanks again

 

[MarkBarbieri]

Think about how you are going to view your video after editing, if you are not going to burn them to HD-DVD or BLU-RAY you may not need the HD video in the first place.

If you are going to burn to Regular DVD(Rs), there is no real need for the added resolution.

That's good to point out, but I wouldn't make too big a deal out of it. It is true that you can't easily distribute HD footage to people right now. In several years, however, HD media will probably be much more commonplace. You'll still have your HD footage and will be able to edit and distribute it then.

Personally, I'd like to do the best capture now, regardless of distribution. That does increase cost and inconvenience, but I find the tradeoff worth it for future viewing.

 

[Groucho]

Actually, I think HD-DVD players (and maybe Blu-Ray?) can play high-def .ts files burnt to a regular DVD... There's really no magic difference between CDs, DVDs, or high-def storage (HD-DVD or BluRay), all they do is store ones and zeros, it's up to the playback device to know how to deal with them. You can burn DVD content to a CD, too, just not very much of it...

Still, HD camcorders are a bit "bleeding edge" and probably will be for another couple years, I suspect. Same with HD disc players...

 

[PolyHereWeCome]

I'm looking to buy a new camcorder. I bought my first one in July. It was a hard disk JVC similar to this
While the quality of the video was average, the type of file that the camera recorded in was something made up by JVC. Even if I try to convert them, they can't be edited by any software by JVC's and it's crap. Horrible

So I need a new one, one that records in files I can edit. I don't care if it's hard drive or DVD or MiniDV. I just want to be able to do some simple editing. So does anyone have any general suggestion? What should I look for? I really like this one, but will I be able to edit the videos?
http://reviews.cnet.com/Sony_Handycam_DCR_DVD408/4505-6500_7-32306101.html?tag=pdtl-list&ar=o

ANY suggestions? Recommendations? HELP!

We're looking at nearly the same one, just we're leaning toward the Sony DCR-DVD508, rather than the 408. Like the idea of being able to take high-quality stills while also shooting video (we primarily shoot recitals and things where we want both stills and video). Last year nearly bought the Sony 405 or 505, and the 408 and 508 look like they're replacing those. Only reviews for these newer models are pros -- I want to wait until I see some real customer reviews/experiences on Amazon.com. Will be heading to Bestbuy to check it out, but do like to read some real customer reviews before buying. I've read the same things about harddrive and high def.camcorders as others have posted here, and we don't want tapes, so recording to the small (3") DVDs is it.

 

[PolyHereWeCome]

Today I ordered the Sony DCR-DVD508 from J&R.com. Any questions, let me know.