CALIF Itineraries - Did DCL 'miss the boat?'

[BEAV]

When DCL announced their 7 night Mexican Riviera itinerary, it was a no brainer for us to book the 14-night FL to CA repositioning cruise. I've sailed the 7-night Mexican Riviera cruise before from LA and the ports just don't thrill me (just a personal thing).

Since Disney is so unique, I was hoping (expecting?) a little more classy itinerary for their CA cruises. The itinerary they've chosen is the same, ho-hum, run-of-the-mill one all the other cruise lines sail.

Disney Magic could have sailed the following itineraries in 7 days from LA:

"California Dreamin"
Day 1 LA
Day 2 Santa Barbara
Day 3 San Francisco
Day 4 At sea
Day 5 Catalina
Day 6 Ensenada
Day 7 San Diego
Day 8 LA

-or-

"Pacific Coast Experience"
Day 1 LA
Day 2 San Francisco (probably wouldn't arrive until Noon account distance from LA)
Day 3 at sea
Day 4 Seattle
Day 5 Victoria
Day 6 at sea
Day 7 at sea
Day 8 LA

I would have thought they could have devised a clever marketing scheme between Disney's California Theme Park and a "California Dreamin" cruise itinerary.

So what does everyone think?

Did you book a CA cruise because it's Disney and it doesn't matter to you where they actually sail?

Did you book a CA cruise because you like the Mexico itinerary?

If you didn't book a CA cruise, would you have reconsidered if they offered an itinerary similar to those posted above?

And, heaven forbid, could Disney have charged even more
with one of the above itineraries as opposed to the Mexican Riviera that competiting cruise lines sail?

Can't wait for the feedback!

 

[ivanova]

Are Santa Barbara or San Francisco even equipped for cruise ships? It might have been that port charges would've been even higher (than the Mexican Riviera ports) or that other ports could not accommodate a DCL ship.

Or it could simply be that DCL is thinking of doing Mexcian Riviera cruises when (if) a 3rd ship is placed out here ... so that's what they want to test in summer 2005.

 

[BEAV]

San Francisco is a origin/destination cruise city (like San Pedro, Long Beach, etc) as well as a "port stop" for cruises passing through.

We were on a Pacific Coastal cruise from LA to Vancouver aboard Star Princess (larger than Disney Magic) in 2002. Santa Barbara was one of our port stops. Quite a few other cruise lines are now adding Santa Barbara, as well as Monterey for that matter.

The Celebrity Mercury has been sailing "Pacific Coastal" cruises similar to the itinerary I posted. Prices were very reasonable and comparable to standard Mexico Riviera itineraries, so I don't think port charges are a factor.

 

[ivanova]

in that case I think Disney missed a golden opportunity -- instead of mimicking Mexican Riviera itineraries, they could've linked a cruise to the DCA theme park and cruised UP the west coast instead of DOWN it.

Wonder what kinds of excursions you can do out of Santa Barbara (maybe some local missions?), San Francisco (Ghiradelli Square? Alcatraz?) or Seattle.

 

[Juli]

Originally posted by BEAV
So what does everyone think?

Did you book a CA cruise because it's Disney and it doesn't matter to you where they actually sail?

Did you book a CA cruise because you like the Mexico itinerary?

If you didn't book a CA cruise, would you have reconsidered if they offered an itinerary similar to those posted above?

Can't wait for the feedback!

We booked the FL to CA b/c we'd like to cruise the Panama Canal and we'd like to do that with Disney. The rest of the ports are places I've never been to, so I'm ok with that as well. A Mexican Riviera cruise has never really been on our list of things we had to do, but the 14-day with DCL is different.

We didn't book the 7-Day b/c the itinerary didn't interest us at all. Summer cruising doesn't appeal to us either as we live in the north and like to cruise when it's sub-zero up here! The ports you mentioned would have been of more interest to us, but we've seen many of them via land based trips. On the other hand, we have CA relatives and going on that trip together would have been fun. I also would have been inclined to book Category 10 or 11 so we could get more relatives to join us as opposed to the Cat. 6 on the FL-CA. Given that we've seen these places, I think everyone would have been ok with no view from our staterooms. So, yes, we would've explored a family get together on the 7-day itineraries you suggested.

Good questions!

Juli

 

[JCMcGinn]

I don't think that they could offer consecutive US ports as a foriegn flag ship. Although, as I wrote that, Port Canaveral to Key West comes to mind. How do they do that?

 

[Horace Horsecollar]

Originally posted by BEAV
"California Dreamin"
Day 1 LA
Day 2 Santa Barbara
Day 3 San Francisco
Day 4 At sea
Day 5 Catalina
Day 6 Ensenada
Day 7 San Diego
Day 8 LA

-or-

"Pacific Coast Experience"
Day 1 LA
Day 2 San Francisco (probably wouldn't arrive until Noon account distance from LA)
Day 3 at sea
Day 4 Seattle
Day 5 Victoria
Day 6 at sea
Day 7 at sea
Day 8 LA

I think cruise lines -- especially when catering to customers who live in California, for whom Santa Barbara, San Francisco, and San Diego are easy car trips -- try to ofter more distant, "exotic" ports.

So, although "California Dreamin" could have worked, I think the cruise lines (including DCL) feel that more customers would prefer the Mexican Riviera.

The "Pacific Coast Experience" -- a Disney Magic itinerary starting in Los Angeles and calling on San Francisco, Seattle, and Victoria -- looks more like a 9-night or 10-night cruise than a 7-night cruise.

There's a good reason why 7-night cruises from Los Angeles, Long Beach, and San Diego go to the Mexican Riviera ports of Mazatlan, Puerto Vallarta, Cabo San Lucas. It's due to the speed of cruise ships. Cruise ships typically cruise at 21 or 22 knots. Right after dry dock, when the hull is especially smooth, such a cruise ship might go 25 knots or even faster.

1 knot = 1.15077945 mph. Converting to mph, the Disney Magic cruises at around 25 mph -- the speed that you drive your car on a residential street or neer a school. It's the same reason that 7-night cruises from Port Canaveral don't go to the southern Caribbean.

There are some ships, such as NCL's newer ships, that cruise at 25 knots and can thus cover distance more quickly. That's why NCL can offer some 7-night itineraries that other cruise lines can't copy.

 

[thiscloud]

beav - we booked the CA to FL repo cruise, so it's not as pertinent to your post, since you're more focusing on the itinerary of the 12 riviera cruises.

we booked the repo for several reasons, the most important of which was price. i couldn't believe how much more expensive the riviera cruises were compared to the repo.

however, if the repo wasn't offered, we would have booked the riviera because it's disney. i've never been on another cruise line, but my wife has, and from what she's said, i never want to try another cruise. so even if the cruise was just going from los angeles out circling catalina a dozen times and then come back to port, we probably would have booked it.

although i must admit both of your cruise itineraries sound so much more interesting that the real riviera itinerary.

 

[OLT2004]

Where is the Private Island Day?

Did I miss it?

 

[BEAV]

Originally posted by Horace Horsecollar
The "Pacific Coast Experience" -- a Disney Magic itinerary starting in Los Angeles and calling on San Francisco, Seattle, and Victoria -- looks more like a 9-night or 10-night cruise than a 7-night cruise.

[/B]

I follow West Coast cruise itineraries very closely. Princess does SF to Vancouver with just one day at sea in between. Three years ago, we sailed SF to Seattle on Celebrity with just one day at sea in between, so it works! Princess & Holland America do LA-Vancouver (and vice versa) with two days at sea in between. Victoria-LA would work the same, especially considering Victoria is actually closer to the Pacific Ocean than Vancouver.

LA to San Francisco can be sailed overnight by most all modern cruise ships, although a ship leaving LA at 5:00pm wouldn't arrive SF until around Noon the following day.

 

[OLT2004]

Please tell me about the Jones Act......

Let's seperate the "knows" from the herd!

 

[BEAV]

Originally posted by JCMcGinn
I don't think that they could offer consecutive US ports as a foriegn flag ship. Although, as I wrote that, Port Canaveral to Key West comes to mind. How do they do that?

US Maritime laws don't restrict foreign flagged cruise ships from sailing between two consecutive US ports. A cruise beginning and ending at Pt Canaveral must merely call at a foreign port at some point during it's itinerary. As long as it does that, it can sail between two consecutive US ports (such as Pt Canaveral to Key West).

Holland America's Maasdam is leaving Ft Lauderdale (tomorrow I believe) en route to Montreal. After departing Ft Lauderdale, she'll make numerous US stops along the East Coast before she ever makes her first foreign port stop in Canada.

 

[mickeyfan1]

The Jones act requires all cruise ships to make at least one stop in a foriegn port if the ship is not an American flagged vessel. For example, when American Hawaii Cruise lines was plying the waters in Hawaii, they were flagged US and thus could transport passengers between only American ports. Now NCL and Princess sail to Hawaii, and around Hawaii, but you will notice that they also stop somewhere non US. NCL goes to Fanning Islands. This is also why there are no "Alaska" only cruises, you will either stop or start in Canada, or on longer length cruises, at leas stop in Canada. The Jones act was passed many many years ago to "protect" US ports, I think. It's been a while since I went to travel school, and they didn't really emphasize why, just what.

Hope that helps.

 

[Horace Horsecollar]

Originally posted by OLT2004
Please tell me about the Jones Act......

The Jones Act (1920) and the Passenger Services Act (1886) are two Federal laws that are supposed to protect U.S.-flagged ships from foreign competition. The Jones Act deals with cargo ships and the Passenger Services Act deals with passenger ships.

The Disney Magic and all other "American" cruise ships are really considered foreign ships. (The exception is NCL America's Spirit of Aloha, which will be joined by several other U.S.-flagged NCL America ships, initially just in Hawaii.)

Foreign ships must call on at least one foreign port, and their voyages may not begin in one U.S port and end at another. There are all sorts of exceptions, which is why DCL can offer the repositioning cruises. And it's also okay to stop at intermediate U.S. ports, as long as nobody starts or ends their journey at those ports.

See: http://www.state.hi.us/dbedt/hecon/he7-99/psa.html

 

[BEAV]

Originally posted by OLT2004
Please tell me about the Jones Act......

Let's seperate the "knows" from the herd!

The Jones Act is also referred to as the Passenger Services Act.

Here are the requirements for non-US flagged ships (such as Magic & Wonder)

1. Cruises beginning & ending at the same US port (such as Pt Canaveral) must make a call at any foreign port.

2. Cruises beginning at one US port and ending at a different US port (Port Canaveral to LA, for example) must call at a distant foreign port during it's itinerary. Ports in the Caribbean (Cozumel, Grand Caymen, Nassau, etc) are not considered distant foreign. For the sake of a Florida to California sailing, a distant foreign port must be in (or near) South America. This is why Panama Canal sailings from FL to CA call at either Aruba or Curacao. The ABC islands (Aruba, Bonaire, Curacao) are off the coast of South America and are considered distant foreign

3. Cruises beginning at a foreign port and ending at a US port (or vice versa) don't fall under these US laws. The laws only pertain to cruises beginning and ending at US ports.

 

[Horace Horsecollar]

Originally posted by BEAV
The Jones Act is also referred to as the Passenger Services Act.

The Jones Act and the Passenger Services Act are not the same thing.

The Jones Act (which applies to cargo ships) is often mistakenly blamed for the restrictions on foreign-flagged cruise ships -- which are actually due to the Passenger Services Act of 1886.

 

[BEAV]

Originally posted by Horace Horsecollar
The Jones Act and the Passenger Services Act are not the same thing.

The Jones Act (which applies to cargo ships) is often mistakenly blamed for the restrictions on foreign-flagged cruise ships -- which are actually due to the Passenger Services Act of 1886.

Thanks for the clarification between the two. I see them referenced beside each other all the time, but never knew the differences.

 

[PatriciaH]

I liked the 7 night Mexican Riviera cruises a LOT, but when I compared them to the 14 night, the 14 night was only $175pp more! I figured we would just go with a Caribbean Disney cruise next year. We also like to cruise when it is colder here in MA I agree that the 2 cruises you mentioned would probably not appeal to California residents that could take weekend car trips to those areas.

 

[BEAV]

Patricia, thanks for the perspective. Just shows how two minds can think differently. I was under the impression the CA cruises would be attracting more people who live outside CA than in-state residents, thus the attraction to a heavily CA itinerary.

So that brings up another question....are the new itineraries attracting a wide audience from all over the country, or are they merely a convenient alternative for West Coasters who don't want to fly transcontinental to experience a Disney cruise???

 

[KaitlinsMom]

As someone who lives in CA - A lot of CA people don't even know that the Disney ship is coming here - There was no announcement in the Disneyland Annual Passholder newsletter - There were brief articles in the newspapers (you would have missed them if you weren't looking)

As Californians, we vacation in Mexico - It is very cheap to do on your own - The exchange rate is really in favor to us - So the price of the Disney Cruise seems out of whack - But since it is here for a short time, and the wealth of CA - They will get the $$$ and sell out -