Buyer Beware: Hwsc Disreputable!!

[castleri]

Just as a ( long) point of information -
I was able to get both the transaction date and post dates for my Disney CC online so was able to check my account that way.
Around Christmas I placed an order for gift cards from several places with HWSC and when the order arrived one of them was missing. I called customer service immediately and when asked what they could do for me, I explained that one item from my order was missing. She immediately said "would that be the Toy R Us card? It should be shipped Monday and you will not be billed until it is shipped." She also suggested I call back on Monday to be certain they had shipped the card as they were back ordered and that would give me time to order a different card to be shipped immediately. She said we do not bill until we ship. So your order date (that you can print out or save to a file when you place the order) and bill date could be quite different and if it is the end of the month or a holiday probably will be. My order date was the 9th and the transaction and post dates were the 11th and 19th for that same order. It is unfortunate that the OP got someone who did not check further as they should have been able to tell you exactly what the charges were. The several times I have called them I have gotten very good service and would hate to see people afraid to use this company because one person feels they didn't get the service they should have. Sometimes it is definitely in the way we ask a question and if the phrasing isn't just right the answer isn't either. I am one of the worst people I know for keeping records and filing things so to be able to call and have the info given to me before I even told her what I was missing made my day. I was afraid they would say "Oh everything was shipped or something like that". It was only later when I did check my bank statement that I saw the 2 charges instead of 1 for the total order just as she had said. Hopefully you will get things worked out but please don't judge the entire customer service area by the actions of two people.

 

[beatnik]

castleri,

Thanks for your post-- the information that you provide is very helpful to folks dealing with HWSC and it will help with understanding of ship vs. bill dates.

I would have also said prior to my most recent experience that I had gotten very good service from HWSC.

But again, although I agree that the customer service that I got from HWSC was initially flawed, my considering them disreputable is not because of poor customer service-- I get that from time to time and usually just terminate my relationship with the company in question.

The issue is that HWSC has the terms of their membership set up such that if there is a question about billing, you may well come out the loser financially. Say for example in your circumstance, you got a customer service agent on the phone who insisted that all of your cards had been shipped. You tell him you didn't get all the cards, but he says there is no error on his end and there is nothing else he can do to help you. What do you do next? You can try to write a letter to HWSC, explain your situation, hope that you will prevail, and in the meantime pay your credit card company for a card that you did not receive. If you do not get the matter resolved successfully with HWSC, you will not have a leg to stand on with your CC company, as once you pay a questionable charge most of your (and your CC company's leverage is lost). So in this instance, you could wind up paying for a card you never received. If you contacted your credit card company to dispute the charge, your HWSC membership would be cancelled and you would forfeit the rebates for the cards you just bought. This is what I find to be disreputable.

And you may ask why any company would conduct business in this manner? I really couldn't say but can merely relate my experience with a similar circumstance. You may speculate that perhaps I just didn't ask the correct questions, or maybe I was rude to the customer service guy (neither of which was the case) and you might be able to convince yourself that this would not happen to you because you would never do something like this. You may believe that your successful interactions with HWSC thus far are because of the way in which you have treated them (well) and that you have some control over whether you get good customer service. I am speculating here, but only because these are the things that I wonder about when I see people posing a complaint about a company on these boards-- did the person lose their cool, yell at someone, and get poor customer service in retaliation? All I can say is, I couldn't have been politer, more clear, or more reasonable in my inital phone conversations with HWSC. I hit a guy who was a dud and did not create the bad service through a nasty demeanor.

Although it hasn't happened to you yet, you too could one day find yourself in a similar situation with HWSC and there would not be much you could do about it. There of course are numerous benefits to the membership and you may be willing to take your chances. But in the end there is a possibility that you could lose more than you save.

Yours,

Beatnik

 

[peachgirl]

You join HWSC confident that you are assured of having no problems with them, as you will stay on top of everything. And after several months go by, you note a charge that you do not You are now in a no-win situation because of course you are not going to pay a $50 charge which was an error....... But if you dispute the matter with your credit card company, your membership will be cancelled and any outstanding rebates due you will be forfeited. If your outstanding rebates are more than $50, perhaps you won't pursue this matter with your credit card company. Either way, you lose. There could also be an error in which your membership is cancelled, and HWSC might then tell you (as they told me) that they are unable to re-instate cancelled memberships. Again, you'd be out any refunds due to you.

What you describe above would be a legitimate complaint, IF it ever happened. To assume this is how they would handle such a scenario is unfair to the company. The charges you authorized your CC company to charge back were legitimate charges. It was an error on your part and no one else's.

I charge several thousand dollars a month on my Disney CC as well. I can't imagine making $1000 in purchases and not recognizing a single one of them. I think the lesson learned in your experience is not that HWSC is disreputable, but that one should keep track of what they charge.

 

[Lewisc]

Not really trying to defend Connections. They have a horrible track record and I think the savings with the meal vouchers are over-stated. BUT

I'm sorry, even with if you charge $3,000 a month you should have noticed NONE of the charges were on your previous statment. $1,000 is noticeable.

I agree you got bad service BUT this is not a company know for great service. In this case the mistake was yours. Sounds like the cc started to process your inquiry as a dispute and you authorized the cc to cancel your membership. Others have posted that a credit card dispute causes a merchant charge. Connections decided they don't want you as a customer and won't reinstate your memebership.

 

[maggiew]

I have no wish to get into this debate, but I have a question. Is it Hotwire Savings Club general policy to cancel a membership if a charge is contested with the CC company or did you membership get cancelled because you told your CC company to cancel it??

Maggie

 

[wdwfam]

I think the best thing for you to do is simply quit answering everyone as an "attack". If you have issues - take care of them. I could care less if you charge $1,500 - $3,000 a month then pay it off. We run a business and that is nothing; but I keep track of what I charge. Checking balances online is excellent advice that was given earlier. Sounds like now you want to debate all advice given.

 

[wmarsich]

Not to belabor this topic, but I think the lesson here is very important and one that I learned in a similar manner. I had cancelled a flight from a well known discount airline distributor and could not find in my records where it had been credited to me. I called the cusotmer service several months later and they just insisted that it had been credited, but could not give me a date. OK, so it wasn't the best customer service, I agree, but who knows what the reps. problem was. He could have been new, not versed on finding information, or just have been having an off day. Anyhow... I was really frustrated, but I didn't go directly to my credit card company, I instead wrote the company I had the dispute with. They sent me a date and I found the credit in a billing statement prior to the time that I thought it could have been credited. I felt very silly afterwards because the company had followed through and I had been remiss. I think the lesson here is to review all of your own records before the drastic step of "allowing for" an investigation. Just my 2 cents through expereince.

 

[beatnik]

Hello all,

To answer the posts since I've been here last:

Maggiew, I do not know if it is HWSC's policy to cancel a membership if you dispute a charge-- but apparently it is the policy of some (perhaps all) credit card companies to refuse to process any more transactions from the vendor in question. In the case of HWSC, this means your membership is cancelled.

Peachgirl, point taken and well made. All I am trying to say is that any company can make a mistake, but the way the terms of the HWSC's membership are set forth, if there is a problem, your membership may be cancelled and you will have no recourse. If you shop at Target, say, and they overcharge you for something (or they don't overcharge you but you think they did and you go to the customer service desk in error) and you question the charge, there is no system in place by which you automatically forfeit the discount you obtained by purchasing the item on sale. That is what I mean by reputable vs. disreputable.

wdwfam, I honestly have not taken any of the previous posts as an "attack." My feeling is that these are discussion boards and I think everybody's input has been very valuable, whether I agree with their stance or not. I have attempted to answer most people's posts, particularly when I felt a point needed further clarification. As far as the point about how much we charge each month, it was mentioned only because it might be helpful to understand how we several charges totalling about $1000 might not be that noteworthy. And I only added that we pay the balance in full each month, as I was imagining much unsolicicted advice about how I should not charge so much if I cannot afford it! You are incorrect in stating that I now want to debate advice given-- my aim was to discuss the reputabilty of HWSC. I did not actually start this thread seeking advice, although I have read all that you have offered and appreciate that you all are trying to be helpful.

So all, I will let this thread die a peaceful death. I have made the point that I hoped to make in regards to HWSC and I appreciate all the counterpoints that you all have taken the time to make. You all may join or not join as you see fit!

Cheers,

Beatnik

 

[DMRick]

In the case of HWSC, this means your membership is cancelled.

I must be missing something. Your bank cancelled your membership with your permission. The company may refuse to reinstate you, but I certainly can understand that. Why should they go the extra miles to reinstate you, give you rebates it no longer owes you (since YOU cancelled via YOUR bank) per the rules (you must be a member, you no longer were). We too charge everything..from our food, to our gas to our car insurance and everything on our home business. We like to earn points by charging, and the responsibility is mine to keep MY records, since I'm the one who will have to prove a problem. I would know even without the records, if I wasn't charged $1000 in a month.I really can't see where you should have the right to file a complaint against this company. They may not have been able to see a charge you made from a different date than what you gave, but that's still not, imo, a reason to file a complaint.

 

[JoiseyMom]

In support of Beatnik, I say her biggest mistake was not escalating the issue with Hotwire themselves. Hotwire's initial customer support people are in general, hmmm... Morons. They know what they need to know, and that honestly for most of them, in my experience is not much.

When I first joined Hotwire I never received my email notification as stated I would. I also couldn't get through to anyone. But I was able through their horrible voice system to get my membership number. With that I was able to logon and to see the prices of the items I wanted. The next day I planned to purchase said items. I go to logon and was told that it was an invalid number. Now my fun begins. Trying to get a live person on the phone. When I finally got a live person I was told that my account didn't exist. I told them it did yesterday. I was then told that they didn't have the authority to see me in the computer and she pushed me up the line of customer service reps. After speaking to several people I was told that their email to me bounced back and that I should re-register. Ok, seemed to make sense, except that it wouldn't let me re-register. Now my fun really began.

I called back and spoke to another rep and explained my situation and that I needed to speak to a supervisor because she didn't have the access to help me. She connects me to a supervisor (bad term for those ppl let me tell you). This person tells me I should also be able to re-register. I try with her on the phone. Guess what?? It didn't work. I then tried it with another email address...guess what?? That didn't work. Now, I happen to be a computer programmer, so I know that obviously the "key" their program is working on is more than just my email address, since it isn't taking either of my email addresses. I inform the supervisor that this is a system problem and that I want to speak to their "help desk". The supervisor kept on insisting I was wrong and there was nothting she could do. She kept on telling me to re-register, even though the system wouldn't let me. She the said they can't take registrations over the phone. I kept on insisting she didn't know what she was talking about and that she is going to lose a 1500.00 purchase to another company if she didn't connect me personally to the help desk person she had been talking to, while she had me on hold.

Well that seemed to work. I spoke to this person, and yes...she had a brain and knew how to use it. I explained what happened to my account, and what I thought was going on, and she said she would check it out. She gave me her direct line and took mine. Guess what, I was right, there is a bug in their system! Yeah for me. I gave them my email address again and permission for them to use it in their testing. They were able to manually fix my account and to give me a new membership number. THis took alot of my time. But it worked.

Hotwire is a good service. You get good bang for your buck. Just realize that the initial people you speak to on the phone have no authority, and usually don't have the experience to help you. Just keep on pushing until you speak to a person that does, and yes, they do exist.

I do not think they are a bad company. I think you recieved very poor customer service, and if you keep on trying you will speak to someone that will help you. I understand why you did what you did, and why your credit card company did. But Hotwire should work it out. If I was you, I would keep calling Hotwire and speak to a higher person than you initially spoke to, and keep on going up until you reach a person that can help you. THey all have bosses. I don't think it is a valid complaint against them with the state attorney general. I would use it as a threat to them on the phone though to get to speak to a person of authority that can help you.

 

[VintageKnight]

This is not ment to make fun of or cause anyone grief in my comments, nor is aimed at anyone specificly on this board, just those i've dealt with in the past.........


In my job as a phone rep and for the particular company i work for ( see the sig) having a charge reveresed througha credit card company is our last resort, except in those cases we actually can tell you your being frauded. simply due the fact we have to give the full amount back and you'll still probably owe us money and we keep getting to bug you for it. As for cancling an account only the customer can do that, no outside source, legal dept or state agency can do that to us.

as far as beatniks issues. you have to ask specific questions and have evidence on your end to get most customer service groups to actually answer your question the way you want them to...not meaning your stupid or they are.. just there sitting behind a desk, have probably already talked to 30 other people that hour.. and are not going to think about your problem except to answer your question.. so be specific...( I am the anomoly....my average call handle time is 3 times the average.....luckily its not a big deal)

In my 3 years as a dtv rep, i have NEVER! had a person that threatened to send us to lawyer or a better business group that had a leg to stand on...99% of these people just think there poop dont stink and there going to get what ever they want....or have never bothered to read the contracts/rules and regs we send them in the first place...or were actually talking to the wrong company ( dtv sells there own equipment but also allows dealers to sell it also...your still going to get the service from us so we dont care...)

botom line know who your dealing with, know the rules, and dont expect any company to bend them for you....

Its changed people...THE CUSTOMER IS NEVER RIGHT. but the company's will usually allow you to think you are.....=|


Chris.

PS, dont believe word of mouth that closely.....most people dont do the research those of us on these boards do... only 1 in 10 activations i do for directv actually know how much per month there going to be spending with us...and im not talking to the exact penny.. these people never even bothered to ask....and with this signing up for a one year contract blindly......the american populous isnt that smart as a whole...

 

[Lewisc]

OP isn't being fair to HWSC. OP initiated a credit card dispute (on a legit charge), authorized the cc to cancel the membership, probably causing cc dispute fees to be charged to HWSC and is annoyed that they won't reinstate membership BUT

DTV is an excellent reputation for customer service. Connections has a repuation for (past?) behavior bordering on fraud. Horrible BBB reports, actions by attorney generals in several states.

Originally posted by VintageKnight
This is not ment to make fun of or cause anyone grief in my comments, nor is aimed at anyone specificly on this board, just those i've dealt with in the past.........

 

[chager]

Its changed people...THE CUSTOMER IS NEVER RIGHT. but the company's will usually allow you to think you are.....=|

Sad to say but you are so very correct!!!
I remember working in banking many years ago and we were taught to treat the customer as if they were right even if we could not "fix" the problem to their satisfaction. However if there was any doubt about the situation we corrected it the best we could. I have noticed that over the last few years a switch has occured and customers are not treated as nice most the time anymore. (There are still some awesome csr's out there they are just hard to find ) I just had the wonderful experience of dealing with our health insurance company about a missing payment to a Dr. The first person I spoke with basically told me there was no way to figure out which check didn't get cashed. (Problem occurred becuase some of the checks were sent to the Dr. and some to us. ALL were suppossed to be going to the Dr. ) I admit I'm not perfect and organization is not my strong point at home. Therefore I don't always open all the statements from the insurance company in a timely manner. At any point I got no where with the first women. (I think I interrupted her game of Solitaire ) I had to call back again about a benefit issue and the girl I talked to was really friendly. I mentioned the problem with the missing payment. She put me on hold for less then 30secs. and was able to tell me which check hadn't cleared. In less then 3 min. the whole problem was solved and a new check was issued. (It was one of the checks sent to us)
I have now become a Flybaby so hopefully I will become a very organized person at home I know I had something really good to say here but my cat just interrupted me by standing on the computer (it's a laptop) and typing her reply Oh well.