Brownie/Girl Scout Parents

TracyQ

Earning My Ears
Joined
Nov 3, 2001
Messages
21
My DDs (both in first grade) are required to sell 54 boxes of cookies each. That's 108 boxes! And we were told that that was the minimum; they should really try to sell 100 boxes each. While I knew that Brownies sell cookies these days, I thought some consideration would be given to their age, and they would just be told to do their best. Our neighbor, who is in a troop at her parochial school, is only required to sell 25 boxes, which is much more reasonable. If we cannot sell these cookies, we must buy them all ourselves. This is something that I think should have been explained at the beginning of the year, as well as the number of boxes that each girl (or in reality, the parents) have to sell.

In a Brownie newsletter we received, it mentioned that we could participate in booths to sell cookies. That one line was the only explanation of booths. I thought it was just another chance to get rid of your cookies if you were having trouble selling them. As it has been 20 degrees around here lately, I chose not to do it. At the last meeting, the Brownie leader told me, in front of many other parents, that I WAS going to be at a booth this weekend and that attendance was mandatory. I got the impression that she believed that I knew this (despite never receiving any information or being told verbally) and thought I was just a lowlife trying to weasel out of it. It certainly became clear that I didn't know when I began asking questions about it, but she never said, "Oh, I guess we forgot to tell you." or "Sorry we forgot to tell you."

This is my DDs first year in Brownies and they love it. My husband and I are very disillusioned. I know it wouldn't be fair to the kids not to allow them to participate in something they like next year, but I am seriously thinking of scheduling some other activity at the same time and saying, "Oh, I guess you can't do Brownies since it's at the same time as Russian Ballet Kickboxing."

Are your kids required (not expected, but required) to sell so many cookies? Is the way I was treated and the lack of information the norm?
 
I would find another Brownie troop for your dd's. This one sounds too intense. My dd was a Brownie and is now a Girl Scout and never had a minimum amount of cookies she had to sell. And as for booth sales, the leaders take the girls that want to go, parents can come and help out if they want.

December99 might be able to help shed some light on this situation for you too. :)
 
Originally posted by TracyQ
If we cannot sell these cookies, we must buy them all ourselves.

They can't make you do this! I'm outraged reading it!

My dd has been a brownie and a junior girl scout for several years. They always set a goal for the girls based on some activity or such that they want to spend their earnings on but in no way shape or form is it mandatory . It's supposed to be a motivator, not an "or else" type of thing.

I know you would risk alienating your troop leader but personally I would call the council about this. I'm sure they would not approve! What if you have someone in a financial situation that couldn't afford this (nevermind the fact that you probably don't have any desire to own 100 boxes of cookies if not sold).

Perhaps a different troop would be better for your girls for next year. Girl Scouts/Brownies is a fabulous organization but what they are doing to you (and all the girls in the troop) is not acceptable!

Good luck! And keep us posted!
 
My dd is in her 7th year of scouting and never have they had a requirement on number of boxes of cookies they had to sell

This is the first year the troop isn't doing a booth sale - but that is because the troop is disbanning at the end of the school year - hoping to find her a cadette troop by fall

This year she did sell 71 boxes of cookies - but that was door to door in our neighborhood only
 

Wow, Tracy, that is a shame that you are having a bad experience with your DD's troop. I agree with DaisyDebbie - I would find another troop for next year.
My DD joined last year and I have been the Cookie Mom both last year and this year. Our council said the "goal" for each girl was 110 boxes. I told our troop of the council "goal", but that did not mean that they HAD to sell that many. Our girls were told just to try their best. Everyone's situation is different. Both my DH and I work, we have large families nearby, and no one else is selling in our neighborhood. Therefore, it is easy for my DD to sell a lot. She sold 260 boxes this year, and 287 last year. Some girls have other sisters participating, such as in your family, and/or their moms stay at home and their dads don't work in a large office. They sold maybe 30-35 boxes, and I think it is great that they did what they could!
I could never imagine berating another parent about something so insignificant! {{{hugs}}} to you for having to go through this. Please try to find another troop next year! I think scouting gives kids wonderful opportunities and I would hate to see your DD's miss out.
 
A co-worker's dd is in Brownies, and she doesn't have a mandatory "minimum." I would contact the council - in no way can they *make* you buy all those boxes. That is illegal!
-MrsAPalm
 
Phew boy! Was your dd's scout leader a marine per chance??? I have been a scout leader for 6 years and have NEVER required my girls to sell at all...much less given them a required amount to sell!!!! This is a leader based decision....perhaps a service unit based one...but goes directly against National policy. No girl scout is required to sell cookies!!!
That being said, I know you have to function in this troop for now.My suggestion is to talk directly with your dds leader and tell her your concerns. If you get nowhere...please look for another troop for your girls that is closer to what you want for them...or....just an idea...start your own troop! Being a GS leader is awesome! Whatever you do....please don't take your girls out of scouting if they love it. IMHO, there is no better place for a girl to be!!!!
Good luck with this!!! What a shame that this leader is putting so much empahsis on cookies....Girl Scouting is SOOO much more than that!!!!
 
Tracy - just noticed that you are also in PA. What council are you in?
 
I am the cookie manager of my daughters Brownie troop. While we have goals for our troop, no one is required to sell anything, much less a minimum. That is really sad, and I too, would find another troop if you can. Also here, brownies are not allowed to sell at booths unless they are with a troop of older girls. I also agree, they cannot make you buy those cookies, no matter what they say. I hope you and your daughters can find a better troop, since they love it so much. It's such a great thing for girls!

Erika
 
As a Junior Girl Scout leader, let me tell you that something like that would NEVER occur in my troop!!! There is not a requirement at all for selling cookies. We tell our girls to do the best they can, and do not expect everyone to sell 100 boxes of cookies. Do not let the troop leader make you think that your daughter HAS to sell a certain amount.....I would also agree to call the council and tell them what is happening....scouting should be a wonderful experience for your daughter....not some pressure tactic!!!
 
As a Brownie Leader and Troop Cookie Manager, that is so wrong!
I would call the council, there are not supposed to be mandatory minimums. Yes, the girls set goals, but the object is to do their best, learn some nice little life lessons, and most importantly: have fun. My thought is to base your troop activities on how many cookies they sell, not stress them out to sell X number of boxes for some unreachable activity. That just leads to disappointment with your troop. If they are requiring you to buy 108 boxes at $324, you are better off writing a check to the troop for $41. (The $.38 per box profit the troop makes). I am sorry if I sound cynical, but being a member of a Brownie Troop is supposed to be fun!
 
My daughter is a Brownie this year and she was not requirted to sell at all. She sold a grand total of 18 boxes to us, my sisters and my parents and that was it. We only have 40 houses in our neighborhood, and 7 girl scouts selling cookies, so we didn't bother going around. I would definitely contact the council.
 
If your dds love the troop I think that I would try and be more informed on what is going on in it. Pick up the phone and chat about activities.
I am not saying I agree with her tactics (I don't) but if you know that she doesn't give out info freely then perhaps I might become more proactive. A good troop is hard to find.

Also it if your dds go door to door they could sell the minimum with ease. Everyone buys from a Brownie. Now my 3rd yr Jr dd...uh nope...she is big, pre teen, they just are not interested in buying...its sad.
 
Tracy....I hope I can help some.

Exactly what the others said - there CANNOT be a limit set on the amount of cookies that one can sell. There SHOULD be a chain of command within your service unit (a service unit is an area of the council, similar to a district, that reports to the council). From experience dealing with cookie problems and finding out that we handled this incorrectly, first you need to find out who your service unit or neighborhood manager is. Call another mom that you might know is a leader - DO NOT CONTACT YOUR DAUGHTERS LEADER AT ALL AND MAKE THIS CONTACT ASAP!!!!! BEFORE THIS WEEKEND - she should be able to tell you who that contact person. DO NOT CONTACT YOUR SERVICE UNIT COOKIE CHAIR - she may not be able to offer any help. Technically the service unit manager is the one that should handle this because this is not only a cookie problem but sounds like a troop leadership problem. She can then give you the name of the person to contact on the council level as she has someone that she reports to (as I do - I'm the service unit manager).

Second - you need to document what has happened and what has gone on in any conversations between you and the troop leader - possibly not only for this but also for anything that was said at the parent meeting at the beginning of the year and if you happen to have any correspondence that came with your cookie packet or anything you received throughout the year - gather that up and hang on to it in case they ask for any copies of any correspondence.

Probably what will happen - unless there have been a lot of complaints - they will only talk to this leader first and find out why she did this. They may ask you to participate in the conversation - but might not.

You definitely need to get this confronted and get it confronted NOW!!!! In regard to the booth sale - we do not have any requirement of what they girls are to do and GSUSA would heavily FROWN on all this that is happening as will your council. If you don't think you will have enough time to find out who your service unit manager is and make contact with her, then call your council office and ask to speak with the Membership Director for XXXX service unit or neighborhood - you will need to know what your unit's name is or number but if you dont' know that, they should be able to figure it out just by finding out what town you live in.

Jeafl...I'm curious as to what council you are in......
 
Thank you so much for all of your replies and suggestions! I have happy memories of my time as a Brownie and was disappointed that the focus had changed so much. It's nice to know that in many places it hasn't changed.

I hate confrontation and avoid it all costs, so while I'm not going to make a big deal about this, I am going to tell the leader that I was not happy with the way I was treated and ask exactly how these cookie numbers are decided. (Even thinking about this conversation makes me nervous, which shows you how much of a wimp I am.)

Several of you mentioned finding a new troop for next year. There is only one Brownie troop in our school district. Are you allowed to join a Brownie troop outside of your area?
 
You are allowed to join a troop anywhere in the United States and by GSUSA by-laws, that money that the girl has contributed to her troop is to follow her! Your daughter is also allowed to register as an independently registered girl and still sell cookies, fall product sales, and participate in service unit and council sponsored events as well as work on badge work and other girl scout work herself. This could be a temporary fix if you can't find a troop right away but she still wants to be involved. The important thing is to keep her wanting to still be involved.

Tracy - I never liked confrontation either but this leader needs to be stopped with this behavior. She is violating everything about girl scouting doing this - it appears that they set the rules and that's that. The girls are suppose to be involved in the decision making as well as the parents. Leaders are NOT suppose to just set things and not be flexible. Some higher ups DO need to know about this. I had a situation that I had "heard" about last year and then during the summer this thing escalated because no one contacted me about it and then I was stuck between a rock and a hard place and ended up telling this leader that if things did not change she was not going to be allowed to continue as a leader. What she is doing is making so girls don't WANT to be there or the parents DON'T want to have their kids there or be involved at all. If it were me, as a higher up, I'd want to know now and not later!!!! I don't like confrontation either.

PM me if you need anymore information or suggestions.
 
First, let me say that I disagree with a mandatory amount of fundraising sales. My DD's troop (she's a junior) does not have a mandatory amount, and while booth sales are encouraged, they are not required.

In DD's troop, they all agreed what their goal for cookie sales is (the GS trip to Hershey Park this spring, if any of you are going, pm me!). They all agreed that they needed to raise about $100 per girl to fund the cost of the trip (the tickets are $60 and they need to pay for transportation, food, etc.) That's 200 boxes of cookies. Note that this was a goal. It was stated that if they didn't sell enough cookies, that the girls could investigate alternative ways to fund the trip. There also wasn't a mandatory amount per girl. In other words, if one girl only sold 150 boxes, while another sold 250, the girl who sold 150 wouldn't have to come up with the extra $25 out of pocket, they could use the extra $25 from the 250 box sale. Enough of our troop goals, etc.

Our cub scout pack does have a mandatory amount of fundraising which is specified in the parent information meeting and LETTER at the start of the year. Our pack budget is set up based on x money from dues, y money from fundraising, and z money from our chartered organization (our CO funds the cost for our boys to re-register every year). Each family is offered a copy of the budget when they join. The mandatory fundraising amount can be made up by either 1) selling that amount or more of the product 2) buying out the profit from that amount, or 3) a combination of the above. The reason the pack fundraises is to keep dues at a minimum and to prevent out of pocket expenses during the year.

The difference between the two approaches. For our DD, dues are $2 per week, which comes to about $60 or so a year. Whenever we do an activity such as camping, we have to pay for it out of pocket(both the fee and the food). The girls fundraise for a specific purpose. For our DS, the dues were based on their level. He's a Webelo, thus pays the highest dues. They were $35 for the year. We had two fundraisers. Popcorn, which didn't have a specific goal, and candybars, which had a requirement of two boxes of candy, for a profit of $60ish . All planned pack activities are funded out of those pots of money. Only an unplanned event (which is always optional) requests funds from the parent.

Like I said at the beginning, I have a different point of view. I think it CAN be okay to make a mandatory requirement for fundraising, if 1) it's communicated up front, and 2) there are options for alternatives such as a buy out. The result of the mandatory fundraising limits is that the parents are usually out a lot less cash during the year.
 
Chris, she's in Troop 1467, Sybaquay council.
 
Jill....WE ARE PART OF SYBAQUAY TOO!!!!!! I would bet that we have been at events together and didn't even know it!!! Last Friday night dd and I went to Villa Olivia for the skiing thing - no one else in our troop wanted to go but she had a blast and it was so cool to see the other girls skiing and learning to ski. Everyone was having a blast and this Friday we are doing the Poki reunion - how old is your dd????

tkd lisa - I don't know what your troop does with their dues but generally dues are used for craft supplies and badgework and the fundraising stuff is used for activities and trips. That is a VERY high amount for a troop dues - when we were meeting regularly we collected $1 a month or $10 a year. And that you have to pay for the food and the fees???? WOW but not necessarily something unusual - I just hadn't heard of people actually doing that. But if they take big trips during the year at all - I can see needing the other money to help fund those to help keep the parents expense down some.
 
Tracy - here is something that I just plucked off the GSUSA site regarding cookie sales - just an FYI -

Q: Who can sell Girl Scout cookies®?

A: Only Brownie, Junior, Cadette and Senior Girl Scouts may sell Girl Scout cookies®. Participation in this Girl Scout program activity is voluntary
 

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