Breaking News: Shamu Kills Trainer at Sea World

[DisneyKevin]

One doesn't have to go to Hawaii. You can go to northern Cali, Oregon coast, or Seattle. If you can fly to Disneyland, you can get to see this.

All I'm saying is that Sea World is not the only place or best place to get this exposure, nor is it close to being as inspring as experiencing natural wildlife in its undisturbed splendor.

While this an admirable thing to do....not everyone has the opportunity to fly to the Oregon coast or even the California coast.

Sea World parks are usually in vacation destinations.

With vacation time and money often being very short, people having a choice to see a whale in Oregon or a whale in Sea World with coasters and other attractions as well as the opportunity to visit Disney are probably going to choose that.

In addition....Sea World offers an amusement park and a nature experience combined. I believe many people leave Sea World with a greater interest in sea life than they would have had had they not visited. I'm not entirely certain that whale watching in any location would have been their next vacation choice, thereby giving Sea World a "twofer" experience.

Again....I think seeing sea life in their natural environment is awesome, but I doubt you'll reach the same size audience.

 

[Justin Jett]

While this an admirable thing to do....not everyone has the opportunity to fly to the Oregon coast or even the California coast.

Sea World parks are usually in vacation destinations.

With vacation time and money often being very short, people having a choice to see a whale in Oregon or a whale in Sea World with coasters and other attractions as well as the opportunity to visit Disney are probably going to choose that.

In addition....Sea World offers an amusement park and a nature experience combined. I believe many people leave Sea World with a greater interest in sea life than they would have had had they not visited. I'm not entirely certain that whale watching in any location would have been their next vacation choice, thereby giving Sea World a "twofer" experience.

Again....I think seeing sea life in their natural environment is awesome, but I doubt you'll reach the same size audience.

 

[challer]

While this an admirable thing to do....not everyone has the opportunity to fly to the Oregon coast or even the California coast.

Sea World parks are usually in vacation destinations.

With vacation time and money often being very short, people having a choice to see a whale in Oregon or a whale in Sea World with coasters and other attractions as well as the opportunity to visit Disney are probably going to choose that.

In addition....Sea World offers an amusement park and a nature experience combined. I believe many people leave Sea World with a greater interest in sea life than they would have had had they not visited. I'm not entirely certain that whale watching in any location would have been their next vacation choice, thereby giving Sea World a "twofer" experience.

Again....I think seeing sea life in their natural environment is awesome, but I doubt you'll reach the same size audience.

Yes, not everyone has the opportunity to make a trip like that. However, Sea World is in 3 places: Orlando (a big vacation destination), San Diego (same, but less so), and San Antonio (not the great family destination). If you go to southern California (prime vacation destination), you can see whales and dolphins in their natural habitat (I have found at least one tour in 3 seconds of googling). Heck, you can see whales/dolphins off the coast of Long Island, New Jersey, and, yes, even Florida. Most right whale sightings in Florida occur between the months of November and April - prime vacation time. Sure, it's not as abundant as Vancouver, but it is there.

Depending on one's starting point, a vacation to Seattle, for example, can include whale watching, roller coasters at Wild Waves, and a themed hotel in Great Wolf Lodge. I know Orlando is the epicenter of family vacations, but to say simply "to see a whale in Oregon" is doing a disservice - these tours are typically a full day event that can be the highlight of a vacation. One can have a hugely successful family vacation away from a multiple theme park area. And the point about money being tight is correct - a full day tour out on the water is much cheaper than a day at Sea World. The down side is that you won't get a shamu souvenir cup or a pressed penny. (I also think many parents believe children require thrill rides to have a thrill - I wholeheartedly disagree.)

Yes, you won't reach the same size audience without Sea World. I agree one hundred percent. I just find it sad that this is the way to reach to people, and in my experience with my children, their interest in sea life and its habitat was fleeting and warped after the Sea World experience compared to the real deal. And what are we doing to these creatures in the theme parks to accomplish this? And how much of an impression are we taking home when our view of dancing dolphins is sandwiched between rides on Kraken and Manta on a day sandwiched between days at the Disney/Universal parks?

Since my last visit to Sea World, I have been on the fence on the issue of whether theme parks like this (or swim-with-dolphin experiences) are more of a service or a disservice to the creatures. It is accidents like the unfortunate episode that recently occurred that jolt the issue in my mind. I know Sea World has value to it (especially compared to other theme park franchises), but I still cannot help thinking - is this the right way to do it, and at what cost?

 

[aspen37]

Sea World does a great job of saving animals and putting them back in the wild also.

I lived in Southern California as a child and loved to go to MarineLand. As a child I was able to see the Orcas, Seals, Dolphins, touch pools and other animals I would never have gotten to see otherwise. This is where my love for the ocean began. I feel bad that the Dolphins and Orcas are kept in pools, but I will never forget when I was around six standing in front of the glass and a Orca came up to me and we watched each other for about three or four minutes. I was able to look in his/her eyes and it touched me in a way that seeing them in the wild couldn't. I am forty one now and that memory is still as powerful for me now as it was when I was six.

I don't know what the answer is about keeping animals like Orcas and Dolphins in captivity is. It does sadden me when I think about their lives and would I want to be kept in a concrete pool for most of my life or all of it, and of course the answer is no. I still have never seen and Orca in the wild , but hope to sometime in my life.

 

[Joshua_me]

Yes, but why should wildlife be captured just so humans can see them ?

This entire notion of, "Without Sea World and places like them, we would never have had the opportunity to learn about aquatic life" rings false to me.

Wild life belongs in the wild. Seems to me that the orca's and dolphins pay a mighty high price: Living in what are essentially concrete boxes so that thousands of folks everyday can watch them "wave" and "blow kisses" to their trainers smacks of corporate profit, not what is best for those creatures.

I hope that our society is on the verge of a rethinking of this concept, that animals are not here for our amusement.

 

[aspen37]

Yes, but why should wildlife be captured just so humans can see them ?

This entire notion of, "Without Sea World and places like them, we would never have had the opportunity to learn about aquatic life" rings false to me.

Wild life belongs in the wild. Seems to me that the orca's and dolphins pay a mighty high price: Living in what are essentially concrete boxes so that thousands of folks everyday can watch them "wave" and "blow kisses" to their trainers smacks of corporate profit, not what is best for those creatures.

I hope that our society is on the verge of a rethinking of this concept, that animals are not here for our amusement.

I live in the mountains of Colorado. You wouldn't believe how many kids come from big cities and have never seen a horse or the mountains. Believe it or not, not everyone can afford to go and see sea life in the wild. I would love to go to the Monterey Bay Aquarium. They were the first aquarium that was able to keep a Great White Shark for an extended period of time. We know very little about them and guess what people love to kill them. If people can see them and understand them better maybe they will have a chance in the future, because if we keep killing them they will be gone.

 

[challer]

Yes, but why should wildlife be captured just so humans can see them ?

This entire notion of, "Without Sea World and places like them, we would never have had the opportunity to learn about aquatic life" rings false to me.

I second that.

 

[DisneyKevin]

Yes, but why should wildlife be captured just so humans can see them ?

This entire notion of, "Without Sea World and places like them, we would never have had the opportunity to learn about aquatic life" rings false to me.

I dont think anyone implied that "we would never have had the opportunity to learn about aquatic life".

I just think less people would have the opportunity to have any kind of proximity to some of these creatures and I think proximity leads to interest which leads to education.

I understand that there are places to go to watch whales, but whales are just one of the exhibits at Sea World. There is also a huge penguin exhibit and I'm not sure from where the "penguin watching" boats depart, but I'm guessing it's not the continental US. There is also a shark exhibit. They are also a bit hard to see outside of Sea World or someplace like it.

I stated very early on that I was a fence sitter in this discussion. I still am.

While I see where the whale has no fault in this tragedy.....I also see where places like Sea World (and the larger zoos) have a place. Sea World does have a large rescue, rehabilitate and release program. They also allow animals that, for whatever reason, would not survive in the "wild", to live a longer, healthier life. The manatees on display at Sea World both come to mind.

Sea World and other zoos also are doing great work with breeding programs.

There are some species that, without the intervention of wildlife parks, might be extinct.

With that being said, I also see that that in almost every situation, that they might be extinct because of man's involvement.

I told you....I'm a fence sitter.

 

[kaligal]

I like Sea World.

I like Shamu.

 

[challer]

...and The Cove wins the Oscar for Best Documentary Film.

See this movie, especially if you don't quite understand what the downside of the Sea World-style theme parks are.

 

[disneyholic family]

...and The Cove wins the Oscar for Best Documentary Film.

See this movie, especially if you don't quite understand what the downside of the Sea World-style theme parks are.

we only went to sea world once, about 6 years ago i think it was..
we were there for about 2 or 3 hours, but were so disturbed by it we left, vowing we would never go back....

when you were in eilat, did you visit Dolphin Reef? the dolphins who live there aren't forced to perform....they're not even asked to perform......they get their fish regardless (and live in the sea, so can snack between meals)...
when the dolphins play with the researchers, it's when the dolphins feel like it...
if they don't feel like it, no big deal (they usually don't feel like playing, but every now and then they do, when the mood strikes them)...

anyway, it's not exactly their natural habitat, since there are lots of humans in very close proximity, but they are living in the Red Sea not in some tiny little pool and theý're not forced to perfom ....

 

[Joshua_me]

we only went to sea world once, about 6 years ago i think it was..
we were there for about 2 or 3 hours, but were so disturbed by it we left, vowing we would never go back....

Hmm.

That's interesting.

As a kid, the concept of Sea World never bothered me at all. My family would go there at least once a year and my Mom would always start crying during the dolphin show. Once they started with that cheesy music over the speakers she was a goner...

But, as an adult the more I think about things the less likely I am to return to that park. It's the same reason I hate the circus... As I said before, animals are NOT here for our amusement !

Now, I know this is a touchy subject, and I know I have to tread lightly on these boards. It's hard to justify my love for the AK and to boycott Sea World in the same breath...

All I can say is it's a gut emotion I have, and emotions seldom follow logic.

I'm just left with the feeling that keeping large sea creatures in concrete boxes so their sonar can bounce off the walls and slowly drive them crazy is NOT something I want to be a part of...

I think the conditions created by AK for land animals are much more natural and far less imprisoning. But still, I'm troubled by the entire concept of keeping animals on display for corporate profit. And at the end of the day that's the real bottom line.

 

[disneyholic family]

Hmm.

That's interesting.

As a kid, the concept of Sea World never bothered me at all. My family would go there at least once a year and my Mom would always start crying during the dolphin show. Once they started with that cheesy music over the speakers she was a goner...

But, as an adult the more I think about things the less likely I am to return to that park. It's the same reason I hate the circus... As I said before, animals are NOT here for our amusement !

Now, I know this is a touchy subject, and I know I have to tread lightly on these boards. It's hard to justify my love for the AK and to boycott Sea World in the same breath...

All I can say is it's a gut emotion I have, and emotions seldom follow logic.

I'm just left with the feeling that keeping large sea creatures in concrete boxes so their sonar can bounce off the walls and slowly drive them crazy is NOT something I want to be a part of...

I think the conditions created by AK for land animals are much more natural and far less imprisoning. But still, I'm troubled by the entire concept of keeping animals on display for corporate profit. And at the end of the day that's the real bottom line.

i think there's a difference as to the conditions in which the animals are kept (SW vs AK)....and also what is required of the animals...

but yes, AK isn't their natural environment...that's for sure...
but clearly i don't find it disturbing since i do go back...
am i a hypocrit?

 

[challer]

when you were in eilat, did you visit Dolphin Reef? the dolphins who live there aren't forced to perform....they're not even asked to perform......they get their fish regardless (and live in the sea, so can snack between meals)...
when the dolphins play with the researchers, it's when the dolphins feel like it...
if they don't feel like it, no big deal (they usually don't feel like playing, but every now and then they do, when the mood strikes them)...

Nah. We skipped it. We were much more interested in the underwater observatory, where we could see the marine wildlife in their true natural habitat. It wasn't a conscious decision to avoid the dolphin area. It's just that nature in natural surroundings is what we're more interested in.

You want offensive? Go to King City (Ir Hamalachim) in Eilat. That place is disgusting.

 

[Justin Jett]

In fairness to SeaWorld and animal trainers in general: It is important to note that training procedures and handling procedures have evolved and improved since the days of the "Flipper" TV show.

The handling procedures at SeaWorld will continue to improve evolve. Training is part of mental stimulation, and money is used for quality care.

 

[disneyholic family]

Nah. We skipped it. We were much more interested in the underwater observatory, where we could see the marine wildlife in their true natural habitat. It wasn't a conscious decision to avoid the dolphin area. It's just that nature in natural surroundings is what we're more interested in.

You want offensive? Go to King City (Ir Hamalachim) in Eilat. That place is disgusting.

you really missed out not going to dolphin reef....
we LOVE it there...
absolutely THE best beach in eilat...
when gil took his week long scuba certification course there a few years ago, while he was in class, i just lazed the day away on the beach and out on the docks with the dolphins...a little bit of paradise for me...
sitting on the beach, looking at the sea and desert and mountains across the way in jordan....really lovely..
and íf you think the dolphins live there like at sea world, you're completely wrong..
they live in the sea, and can come and go through the outer netting area, out into the sea...
it's a really amazing place....

and the dolphins ARE living in their natural habitat there...

you really really really missed out by not going there..

 

[challer]

you really really really missed out by not going there..

I'm sure, but we were low on time and I know we'll be back.

 

[challer]

After last week's "Universal Show", with the DIS crew discussing Sea World with Corene Frye, I was curious if anyone had anything to add. This thread seemed like one of the hotbeds of discussion after the tragedy.

I have to admit, I did find myself yelling at my ipod a bit.

 

[Kuffam]

I agree, I am starting to think that way too. I saw the movie Hatri (sp?) with John Wayne and after that I only wanted to see animals that were born in captivity or "rescued". Now I'm begining to question of any zoo or aquarium is really ethical. Zoo's and aquariums do lots for introducing people to animal live and conservation, but how do the animals there benefit?

 

[Joshua_me]