Boorish behavior

MomOTwins

The Mommy Fairy
Joined
Mar 5, 2018
There is so much wrong with this that I don't even know where to start. Have you ever actually worked in retail to experience what the policies are? I spent years in retail at multiple "major" retailers including high end stores and none of what you are saying its true of their policies. A LOT of people want to assume that these polices exist and everything is racially motivated, but in my experience, in the deep south, that is simply NOT true.

I have never in all my years of working retail been privy to ANY policy that singled out anyone. Yes, we watch people who are suspicious, regardless of race. It is necessary for loss prevention, because the reality is, people of all races steal. Often. Tens of thousands of dollars of merchandise in a single month from "anchor" type stores in shopping malls, so yes ,we definitely try to catch shoplifters. In my experience they pretty much span every race equally, so a policy targeting anyone in particular would be counterproductive. Yes there are requirements for returning items. In my experience those rules are concrete and apply to ALL customers, period. It is definitely boorish behavior to accuse a store employee who is doing their job and applying the blanket policy correctly of being racist, yet it happens all the time and employees have to just smile and take it.
Yes, I've been in retail. No, I don't think any store has an official "policy" to treat one race differently; the examples I gave from the news and court papers were major retail chains have faced government prosecution or lost civil lawsuits, where the common practices, not policies, of the store were racist (and often contrary to official policy). It seems like your post is saying "I worked in retail, and I have never seen racism employed in stores, so it doesn't happen"--but that doesn't hold true. For example, groping happens all the time on the subway, and my friends and I are split about 50-50 on whether it is something we have encountered personally, but we all know it exists even if we have not come into direct contact with it.

I'm totally guessing here but I think it's like people who frown upon going to WDW and leaving the kids for a time with someone else (like another family member, a nanny, the babysitting available, etc) so the parents can do something else (like a nice dinner at Epcot for example).
I've seen this argument go both ways on this board all time. Some say you're a monster for bringing a kid to a signature restaurant or Trader Sam's when you should be leaving them with sitters; others say you're a monster for leaving them behind. Where you fall on the spectrum of which Disney events are "kid-friendly" seems to vary a lot by person, but I think we can all agree that when the policy is adults only, Disney has spoken, and that means no kids.
 
  • eeyoreandtink

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Mar 24, 2014
    Yes, I've been in retail. No, I don't think any store has an official "policy" to treat one race differently; the examples I gave from the news and court papers were major retail chains have faced government prosecution or lost civil lawsuits, where the common practices, not policies, of the store were racist (and often contrary to official policy). It seems like your post is saying "I worked in retail, and I have never seen racism employed in stores, so it doesn't happen"--but that doesn't hold true. For example, groping happens all the time on the subway, and my friends and I are split about 50-50 on whether it is something we have encountered personally, but we all know it exists even if we have not come into direct contact with it.

    .
    NO, what I am saying is that it is NOT policy or practice for any company I have ever worked for, and I have worked for several dating back to the 1990's, nor have i EVER heard of it being industry policy or practice from any of my contacts. It ISN'T happening in the pervasive way you are arguing that it does. Are there individual store employees who choose to act this way? I am sure here are, and companies get crucified for it, despite the fact that it ISN'T their policy. Are there isolated incidents, yes. That still doesn't give anyone the right to call a store employee racist for asking for a driver's license or keeping and eye on someone shopping. Everything is not racially motivated. It's sad that society at large views it ok to throw that word around any time you disagree with something or are inconvenienced. At some point, it loses its effectiveness and just becomes noise, which is hurtful to those with TRUE case to use it.
     

    TestingH2O

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Jun 10, 2014
    Some people truly believe family vacation means you have to be with each other 24/7 and dropping your kids off somewhere so you can do something on your own without your kids is a terrible no good thing.
    My husband is a bit like this. He is going on his second cruise with us in March, and DD LOVES the clubs. I suspect there will be some resistance on his part to the idea that she gets to spend a couple hours a day in the clubs. But my view is that she loves it so why not let her have her fun and we can have ours?
     

    dcassetta

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Sep 24, 2006
    There are also some kids that don't like the clubs, for many reasons. Not all just about parental attitudes.
    I think if your child does not enjoy going to the clubs, that is fine. We all have preferences. But to criticize another parent because their child does like to go to the clubs...

    I guess the upside is that these parents will not be sending their children to the theaters to save seats!
     

    Dug720

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Feb 16, 2012
    I think if your child does not enjoy going to the clubs, that is fine. We all have preferences. But to criticize another parent because their child does like to go to the clubs...

    I guess the upside is that these parents will not be sending their children to the theaters to save seats!
    Yes, of course it's fine. Until the parents want to still do their adult activities and bring Junior along with them and think it's not a problem.
     
  • mmmears

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Nov 30, 2005
    Yes, of course it's fine. Until the parents want to still do their adult activities and bring Junior along with them and think it's not a problem.
    Exactly. Mine didn't want to go to the club. Big deal. We did family activities with her. I don't appreciate people letting kids run wild with no supervision either, just because the parents feel they are owed a vacation from parenting. I think it's great if kids want to go to the clubs, and fine if they don't. Just don't start bringing them into the Cove Cafe or to adult activities. I'm not even going to go into the number of people I have met IRL who sneak 15-16 year olds into the adult areas. We follow the rules, but I guess it wouldn't have worked anyway since DD kept getting asked if she was 18 on our 2018 summer cruise every time she wanted to go to the spa or the gym. (She's 21 LOL) It was not an issue at Mixology since they knew her age when she signed up. ;)
     

    MomOTwins

    The Mommy Fairy
    Joined
    Mar 5, 2018
    NO, what I am saying is that it is NOT policy or practice for any company I have ever worked for, and I have worked for several dating back to the 1990's, nor have i EVER heard of it being industry policy or practice from any of my contacts. It ISN'T happening in the pervasive way you are arguing that it does. Are there individual store employees who choose to act this way? I am sure here are, and companies get crucified for it, despite the fact that it ISN'T their policy. Are there isolated incidents, yes. That still doesn't give anyone the right to call a store employee racist for asking for a driver's license or keeping and eye on someone shopping. Everything is not racially motivated. It's sad that society at large views it ok to throw that word around any time you disagree with something or are inconvenienced. At some point, it loses its effectiveness and just becomes noise, which is hurtful to those with TRUE case to use it.
    You seem very defensive and angry about this, but I don’t hear you thinking about what it feels like to experience racism and then be told you can’t call anyone out when you perceive it to be happening, rightly or wrongly. At the end of the day, I just think you shouldn’t fault that customer without having walked a mile in their shoes. I got customer complaints all the time, but my job when faced with an unhappy customer was to be genuinely sympathetic about the fact that they are going through a difficult and confusing situation (after all, you can buy a product without ID, so it is a bit unfair to be told you can’t return it and get your money back if you don’t have an ID). It is not in my view good customer service to view an upset customer’s real concerns about unfair treatment with derision and call them boorish behind their back.
     

    eeyoreandtink

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Mar 24, 2014
    You seem very defensive and angry about this, but I don’t hear you thinking about what it feels like to experience racism and then be told you can’t call anyone out when you perceive it to be happening, rightly or wrongly. At the end of the day, I just think you shouldn’t fault that customer without having walked a mile in their shoes. I got customer complaints all the time, but my job when faced with an unhappy customer was to be genuinely sympathetic about the fact that they are going through a difficult and confusing situation (after all, you can buy a product without ID, so it is a bit unfair to be told you can’t return it and get your money back if you don’t have an ID). It is not in my view good customer service to view an upset customer’s real concerns about unfair treatment with derision and call them boorish behind their back.
    I fault anyone who chooses to treat someone badly. That’s what this person did. She had no reason to call anyone names, yet she did. So you are saying it was ok for an angry customer to call a clerk a racist for simply doing their job? I don’t think so. It is unacceptable to treat anyone that way, whatever their job. Just because one has experienced racism doesn’t give them a right to accuse anyone they please whenever they please. No one said you shouldn’t tell someone about real racism. What I am saying is that one shouldn’t throw that word out lightly whenever they want a reaction or want their way. It happens way too often these days, and it lessens it’s impact when it is really warranted. I have expirenced and seen incidents of very real racism, and that’s why it angers me when people throw around the word in situations where it is not warranted. When actual racism occurs it should be taken seriously and dealt with. That is less likely to happen the more often people do this kind of thing.
     
  • juliann1977

    Earning My Ears
    Joined
    Aug 11, 2009
    I have a fun one, and then the craziest scene we've ever witnessed. Fun Miami theme with both. ;)

    1) We were on Castaway Cay maybe 2-3 years ago, on the far side of the family beach, Magic sailing out of Miami, so it wasn't crowded. The beach was actually pretty open, so we were a little surprised when a family took a spot right next to us, to the point of creeping into our space. My husband and I kind of rolled our eyes for a couple hours, mildly annoyed, but whatever. All bets were off when the mom and one of the kids sat directly behind our kids' chairs, which had my kids' towels hanging on the backs to dry while our kids played in the water. The mom then wiped her kid's runny nose with one of the towels. I looked at my husband and was like, "did she really just do that?" He kind of shrugged, and so I said to the mom, "Excuse me. That was my son's towel. Did you just wipe your child's nose on his towel?" She looked up, shocked and perplexed and vaguely shameful, and said, "oh I didn't realize it was your towel." I said, "Yes, it was." And she said, "We have some clean towels. Would you like to trade?" And I said I would, and she swapped them out. Looking back, this could have gone poorly...

    2) On a DCL excursion this summer in Oslo, we were on a city tour with four stops. A mom and her 10-ish-year-old daughter from Miami were seated at the back of the bus prior to the first stop. At the second stop, they decided they wanted to move up to mid-bus. They then sat in my seat I shared with my daughter, which split up our group of six. I rolled my eyes, but we moved just ahead and another group also shifted around when I explained and apologized profusely that this mom had randomly taken the seat and everyone just exchanged looks, but we all made it work.

    Third stop: Daughter decides the middle of the bus is no good. They must sit in the front. So, they hop on board and sit in the seats at the front. Problem was, they were taking two of the seats occupied by a group of around 12, also from Miami. They were immediately confronted by members of the group as everyone piled back on. Stuff like "hey, our friend is there," "you can't change seats," "our group is here. You need to sit in your seat." It was polite for about 30 seconds, but then this woman icily proclaimed, "there are no assigned seats. We can sit where we want." Next, the original seat dweller arrived and got wind of the situation, and she was like, "yeah, you need to move." Long story, but ended up in a physical altercation over the cell phone photos the seat taker was taking of the woman whose seat she took--we were all aghast when the pushing and shoving ensued. The child who apparently demanded the seat change was crying, "stop! She's my mommy, and I love her!" It was a train wreck. But the Norwegian bus driver stopped it when he stood up and bellowed, "think of the children!!!!" So somehow the woman with the taken seat shifted somewhere else. Mild and meek Norwegian tour guide, who was really not used to anything like this, then made an announcement, "Usually we stay in the same seats that we start in."

    Fourth stop: Seat taker dramatically declares to the tour guide, "My daughter and I no longer feel safe on this bus. We are going to take a cab back to the port." They then go off on their own. No joke, people began to applaud. We're all then walking around in this giant park and the seat-stealing woman is taking photos of the group from Miami and lurking around. Totally sketchy. There was a DCL employee on the bus, but she was a young kid--I'd guess 18/19, but I'm not sure what the minimum age is (maybe they have to be 21? IDK?), and I asked her if she saw everything that occurred (and she had), and she said she'd have to make a report and she was not looking forward to it.

    We then reported the whole thing to the concierge hosts when we got onboard, though another family had already done the same. They were incredulous.

    It was crazy. When people allude to other cruise lines being trashy and having trashy clientele.... Eh, Disney isn't perfect. I have to say it exists everywhere. Including on DCL European itineraries, which are are $$$.
     
    Joined
    Oct 23, 2015
    Long story, but ended up in a physical altercation over the cell phone photos the seat taker was taking of the woman whose seat she took--we were all aghast when the pushing and shoving ensued.
    OMG that's nuts :scared:

    Honestly, I think as much as photography or videography evidence can help people have got to think things through sometimes and take it case by case. I feel like there are enough times where whipping out the cell phone escalates things fast.
     

    mmmears

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Nov 30, 2005
    OMG that's just awful. We were lucky and the 2 tours we took in Norway (not in Oslo) had passengers that were polite and nobody fought over the seats in the bus. This is yet another reason why I booked some private tours. I agree with you - not everyone who sails on DCL has class, let alone common courtesy and decent manners. I saw some "ugly American" behavior at Heathrow before we boarded the plane for our flight home and was cringing thinking how everyone who saw it was going to say how awful we all are. I wanted to say, "Hey, it's just them! We aren't like that!" They took 2 seats and were saving a 3rd for one of their husbands. A disabled man told them he needed to sit down, but they said nope, we are saving this seat. Then they were pushing and shoving to get onto the little airport train to the far gates, then pushed their way ahead when it stopped. Ok, I might have chuckled just a little bit as we arrived later than them but were allowed to board the plane immediately while they were stuck in the "regular" line.
     

    Pens Fan

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Mar 27, 2014
    I have a fun one, and then the craziest scene we've ever witnessed. Fun Miami theme with both. ;)


    It was crazy. When people allude to other cruise lines being trashy and having trashy clientele.... Eh, Disney isn't perfect. I have to say it exists everywhere. Including on DCL European itineraries, which are are $$$.
    I agree with this. We take far more non-Disney vacations than Disney ones and in my opinion guests are no better behaved on Disney properties than anywhere else. That's why the snarky comments about other cruise lines on here are so annoying.

    As far as cruising goes, some of the worst behavior I've witnessed was on Disney. Sometimes I think that because Disney cruises are so much more expensive there are some people that believe spending all that money gives them the right to do whatever they please. Or maybe it's just as you said - trashy people are everywhere - even at Disney.
     
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    eeyoreandtink

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Mar 24, 2014
    As far as bad behavior on DCL, the worst we ever saw was on our very first cruise on the Magic. The family at the table next to ours was absolutely awful. They all came to dinner in basketball jerseys and shorts every meal, arm hair and all. There were 3 boys, ranging from about 13 to about 8 and they were allowed to run around, crawl under tables, yell at the wait staff, ect. The whole family spent most of the meal very loudly abusing the wait staff, who we shared with them. Nothing was ever right or good enough and everyone around them knew about it. We felt so sorry for our wiat staff and tried to assure them it wasn't them. I really wish I had said something at guest services about them so that maybe it wouldn't reflect badly on the servers, but we were new and didn't know to do that.
     

    cktrotter

    Earning My Ears
    Joined
    Aug 10, 2008
    We only witnessed one small dispute years ago on the Magic that actually ended up funny. A bunch of us were late to the Disney jr breakfast & CM’s we’re kindly rescheduling everyone as the doors were closed. One woman wasn’t having it, arguing about 5mins. late blah blah blah so the CM offered her to come back the next day. She loudly exclaimed that she already had the breakfast scheduled for tomorrow as she wanted to go twice. The whole lobby started laughing so she slithered away. The CM even smirked a teeny tiny bit. Ha!
     

    RedSox68

    Just working to pay for cruising
    Joined
    Mar 16, 2009
    Does this mean that we have to threaten to "make a scene" every time they won't enforce the rules? I'm kind of being serious here. If they don't, I won't be sailing with DCL. Making rules and then not enforcing them just gives the entitled people a huge advantage since I'm not going to save seats in the theater or grab all the deck chairs. It makes it easier for them. Ugh!

    The cynic is me is imaging them explaining that "Junior" is very mature for his age, and has such an advanced palate that he appreciates fine wine like an adult and therefore belongs there. *insert rolling eyes here*
    Actually, I am surprised that it is even acceptable to allow a minor into a liquor serving event!
     

    AquaDame

    Disney Cruise Line
    Moderator
    Joined
    Jul 7, 2010
    On a recent cruise there was a large group that attended each of the trivia sessions and kept racking up the wins. It got to the point where we stopped going since we knew they would be there. After the first 6 sets of plastic mickey heads for their party you would think they would just start playing for fun... or the CMs would tell them to share. It's not like they got anything more as a reward but they even squabbled in the two groups they had to split into (while seated together anyway) about which people would get them. :sad2:
     

    amiskell28

    Can't wait to get back!
    Joined
    Mar 26, 2018
    On a recent cruise there was a large group that attended each of the trivia sessions and kept racking up the wins. It got to the point where we stopped going since we knew they would be there. After the first 6 sets of plastic mickey heads for their party you would think they would just start playing for fun... or the CMs would tell them to share. It's not like they got anything more as a reward but they even squabbled in the two groups they had to split into (while seated together anyway) about which people would get them. :sad2:
    OMG how irritating. I mean, I guess it's technically fine, but come on.
     

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