Beware of renters! (long)

[shelby101301]

Sorry the OP seems to have been scammed.. Its awful that another DVC membe would do that, especially since they know the total cost is in joing DVC.

My lesson learned is never rent or transfer without getting the money first. SO... my question is this (based on what I have read so far) Why would people NOT be willing to make payment upfront, especially for a point transfer? Doesn't seem to be fair to the renter to expect them to take a risk?

Not trying to be a smart alec...we are new owners (feb) and have yet to even make our first trip. I find the more I read, the less I know!

 

[dzorn]

Sorry the OP seems to have been scammed.. Its awful that another DVC membe would do that, especially since they know the total cost is in joing DVC.

My lesson learned is never rent or transfer without getting the money first. SO... my question is this (based on what I have read so far) Why would people NOT be willing to make payment upfront, especially for a point transfer? Doesn't seem to be fair to the renter to expect them to take a risk?

Not trying to be a smart alec...we are new owners (feb) and have yet to even make our first trip. I find the more I read, the less I know!

The reason someone is not willing to make full payment up front is that the could end up with no reservation or no transfer if the were dealing with an dishonest person. It takes trust on both parties and problems result when one party is not really trust worthy.

Denise in MI

 

[RichAyers]

When ones buys groceries, a car, gum, gasoline or whatever, you pay first and then get the goods. One doesn't get points first and money second.

All my rental transactions have worked very smoothly, but I mostly transfer points to other members. We always talk on the phone and I do a little due diligence on the boards first.

Once the money is in my paypal account, we do a 3-way call with Member Services and do the transfer. No problems!

RichAyers

 

[sparkyboy]

OP, sorry to learn of your unfortunate situation all for a lousy 4 points. Thank you for sharing your concern with us. While we have never rented or transferred points yet, I'm certain that there will come a time when we might consider doing so and the points of communication will be helpful.

 

[shelby101301]

The reason someone is not willing to make full payment up front is that the could end up with no reservation or no transfer if the were dealing with an dishonest person. It takes trust on both parties and problems result when one party is not really trust worthy.

Denise in MI

OK, I knew that technically, you are not supose to "rent" points which I didn't know until after we bought. But somehow I guess I thought transferring points for money was different somehow. Looking back , I guess that was an illogical assumption.

So in the eyes of Disney, accepting money for point transfer is illegal (for lack of a better word) too. I think I get it now - thanks.

 

[RobDoc]

OK, I knew that technically, you are not supose to "rent" points which I didn't know until after we bought. But somehow I guess I thought transferring points for money was different somehow. Looking back , I guess that was an illogical assumption.

So in the eyes of Disney, accepting money for point transfer is illegal (for lack of a better word) too. I think I get it now - thanks.

Renting is perfectly legal and is expressly permitted in the POS for DVC.

There is a clause about not accepting money for transfers - basically DVC will not get involved in any dispute about a transfer for that reason and they will state the irreversible policy during the transfer process.

 

[5forDiz]

Renting is perfectly legal and is expressly permitted in the POS for DVC.

There is a clause about not accepting money for transfers - basically DVC will not get involved in any dispute about a transfer for that reason and they will state the irreversible policy during the transfer process.

Maybe I shouldn't speculate on this , because it isn't possible to know the mind of the member who received the 4 points transfer from the OP & I'd still like to believe they'll ultimately do what is right by the OP . . . but I just can't help wondering if they may figure because there is clause re not accepting money for transfer that they are just not going to care about what they 'discussed' with OP regarding this transfer because the OP really would have no recourse in this situation.

 

[WALTSAGOD]

Not to mention any names...but the poster who feels that the renter lied about the deposit needs to get her story straight. We attempted to rent a reservation from her in September. At that time, the said poster stated that we could send in a 20% deposit or if we perferred, wait to have written confirmation from DVC that the reservation was transferred to our name and then send in the payment in full. She contacted me and informed me that the reservation was transferred and that we would recieve confirmation in 5-7days. After two weeks, we still didn't have a confirmation. I e-mailed her several times with no response. She left a message stating that she was getting nervous because the travel time was getting near. We too were getting nervous, as we had already cancelled the hold we had on our reservation through Disney. My husband spoke with her in the middle of the third week of waiting for the confirmation. She spoke of "trust" and understanding our nervousness. We did agree that we would send out a deposit. I made the check out and planned on mailing it that afternoon. I left work early because I was extremely sick. I spent the next week in bed with bronchitis. The next Monday, my mother-in-law had to have unexpected heart surgery. But during all this, we STILL didn't have confirmation. On October 15th, she e-mailed me stating that she hadn't received the deposit and could only hold the reservation for 2 more days. On October 17th, I mailed her priority mail the full payment. Miraculously, we received confirmation in the mail the same day. I e-mailed her with an apology and explained the situation. I also included in the e-mail the USPS tracking number for the mailed payment. Yesterday, my husband called to check to see if she had recieved the payment. Even though she had the full payment in her hands, she said that we would have to pay a $50.00 "late fee" because we did not mail the deposit when we said we were. At no time during our dealings, did we discuss a "late fee." We told her that we were not paying a late fee. We also feel that if she asked for a late fee now, what's to keep her from threatening to cancel the reservation if we don't send her more money?! She, not us, was the one who ultimately decided that she would rather loose everything over $50.00. And now, unfortunately, we are having to start all over again. Too bad we were so trusting. It sure leaves a bitter taste!

Paragraphs are you friend, use them.

Your post is very hard to read, but it sounds as if you are mad because the owner wanted the deposit BEFORE making the reservation and sending you the confirmation?!

 

[RobDoc]

Maybe I shouldn't speculate on this , because it isn't possible to know the mind of the member who received the 4 points transfer from the OP & I'd still like to believe they'll ultimately do what is right by the OP . . . but I just can't help wondering if they may figure because there is clause re not accepting money for transfer that they are just not going to care about what they 'discussed' with OP regarding this transfer because the OP really would have no recourse in this situation.

While we do not know the mindset of the recipient, the issue was in full control of the member with the points - right up until they transferred the points.

Once they transferred ownership of those 4 points, they lost all control of the situation and have no recourse - at least thru Disney. If they have a contract spelling out the expectations and timeframe for the transactions, they could still have a court make a decision about the issue.

If there was ANY question about the legality of a transfer or about accepting money for the transfer, those questions should have been addressed before completing the irreversible transfer. In this case the OP was very trusting and had no safeguards in place prior to making the transfer.

A number of years ago we had a member who made a reservation for dates within 30 days - never asking for payment in advance. After the reservation was made, no payment ever came and yet the member still left the reservation in place - never cancelling. They lost the points and never received any payment. There was no written contract. Certainly the renter was at fault for defaulting on whatever understanding was made, but IMO, the member was a fault for allowing the reservation to stand.

 

[shelby101301]

Renting is perfectly legal and is expressly permitted in the POS for DVC.

There is a clause about not accepting money for transfers - basically DVC will not get involved in any dispute about a transfer for that reason and they will state the irreversible policy during the transfer process.

Thanks for replying Doc! That is so interesting to me, because I discussed it with member services (we were going to rent out our 2008 points since we had so many developer 2007 points given to us) and they were very clear in saying they could revoke our membership for renting points for cash. Maybe they meant commercially? i remember seeing that in the paperwork

Seriously...It's no wonder so many people are confused about their purchase. What they tell you there and what you find out later are two totally different things. Not at all sorry I bought, just wish I understand the rules better...

 

[RobDoc]

If you review the POS (Public Offering Statement) you will find at least a couple of places where renting/leasing reservations is mentioned and allowed. There are requirements - a written contract, for instance - and policies about what is expected from renters (no member benefits, members must let DVC know they are renting, etc.), but there is no provision to prevent renting reservations at DVC resorts.

There are apparently some MS reps who take it upon themselves to editorialize about renting (incorrectly) and if you get one of those reps, I'd suggest hanging up and calling again. IMO, they have grossly overstepped their authority and are certainly incorrect with their comments. There is no question that renting is allowed in the DVC documents.

While I have never rented, I would certainly ask to speak with a supervisor of any rep who suggests that renting is not allowed. That rep needs additional training, IMO.

 

[Deb & Bill]

Plus the POS states that the member must inform MS if they are renting a reservation since that guest is not entitled to any DVC perks or benefits. So if you take compensation for a reservation, that person is not your guest, but your customer.

 

[conandrob240]

Sorry you had a bad experience. But, in any sales transaction, if you are the person with the "goods", you secure the payment before relinquishing the goods. That is just basic business sense. I guess you have learned that lesson the hard way. If the renter doesn't want to pay upfront (at least a deposit but if I was point transfering, full payment), I find another renter, period. Also, I would ALWAYS use Paypal so the rentee is protected by being able to use his/her credit card.

 

[BEASLYBOO]

It's a shame this happenned! I've bought points for transfer, never rented ( I want to control my own reservation), and these types of incidents only make it tougher to trust the next time. I've always paid first for my transactions and then the points transferred. I typically use Paypal but I've done personal check as well. This from a DVC Onwer however would be unexpected.

There have been times that I've needed just a few extra points to complete my arrangements and I appreciate those Owners who offer them.

 

[5forDiz]

Excellent point Webmaster Doc makes on importance of having a contract - for the benefit of both parties. We've had transfers in to our account ( done without benefit of contract ); we did like Beaslyboo - we've paid upfront via PayPal on transfers. But even with PayPal it probably is wise to have contract as well as an additional safeguard.

I would have been like the OP however, I must admit - because I would have based transferring my points to another member on how I TREAT members who have transferred their points to me...I would have trusted that receiving member to do right by me as a fellow member. I hope in the end that it all turns out well for the OP. But this is a wake up call to me as well to always err on the side of caution and not just presume someone will be honest just because I am.

 

[Jeremy&Susan]

I agree that the OP should have been paid for the points, that was the agreement.

What I can't believe is 4 pages of posts over 4 points. Thats like a point a page.