Beginning in January - 18% Gratuity....

[dqpowell]

If you are tipping them based on the discounted amount (which has nothing to do with their service), you are stiffing your server. [...] But if you are doing it based off of the discounted amount, you are stiffing your server, be they good or bad. [...] I'm sorry, but there is no way that anyone can say that tipping based off of the discounted amount is not considered stiffing the server.

Here's a scenario for you. Assume we're talking about right now, before the 2008 changes go into effect.

Full food bill: $125
Bill with DDE discount applied: $100

Person leaves a tip of $20.

Question: Is this somebody who, in your estimation, "stiffed" the server?
Question 2: How do you know?

I am tipping on the discounted cost, did not know there was a LAW that said I couldn't do that!

There isn't a law specifying that... you may have misunderstood what I was saying. I'm saying that by law, tips are discretionary. That means the diner decides how much money to tip, or whether to leave the tip at all. A restaurant cannot legally force somebody to leave a tip or to leave a particular percentage.

WHY would I tip on the non-discounted cost, when I am not paying that amount?

Maybe it would help if I gave you a rather extreme example. Let's say you won a free meal for four at a restaurant. On the night of the visit, two friends come along with your family of four. All six of you eat, and you are presented with a bill that says:

Subtotal: $120
4 free meals: - $80
Total: $40

Now you tell me -- would it be fair to the waitstaff that served six meals to your table to receive tips on only two meals? Does it seem fair to you in this example that you would tip (say) 20% of $40 ($8.00) rather than 20% of $120 ($24)?

Same deal with the DDE discount. If you want to tip according to standard practice, tip on the full amount, not the discounted amount.

David

 

[Poohbear123]

I want to know where the resteraunt is that is giving out these free meals? Now, I usually eat ALONE, and I don't see DDE being feasable for me.

 

[Bill From PA]

There is no law. Rather, the issue is that the discount offered to you is offered by the restaurants, and it is a discount on the cost of food. It is not a discount on the cost of service. It is therefore appropriate to grant all gratuities to the servers just as if the restaurant wasn't being generous.

Disney is not 'offering' me squat. First, I made the decision to pay $151 more for me to get an AP than to just get a 10 Day MYW Hopper Plus which would have handled my park needs, in order to qualify for a DDE, THEN.. I paid an additional $65 for the DDE. No generosity was involved, least of all by anyone associated with Disney.

Further, if I choose a TS restaurant, the service is not separate from the food. I cannot choose to get my own grub at Le Cellier, much as I might like to. So, Disney is not giving me a discount, I bought one, and what I paid for the meal and drinks is the basis for the tip. I've still got until March 31, 2008 on my DDE card so our next trip is covered. Clearly, Disney has changed the rules of the game after the opening kickoff, so to speak. I don't care if the fine print allows this, we'll use the card and they'll get their 18%, a figure they settled on.

Bill From PA

 

[TDC Nala]

According to the current 2008 DDP brochure,

"Gratuities are not included unless otherwise indicated. An 18% gratuity will be added automatically for all parties of 6 or more. A gratuity may also be added automatically for ordered items that are not included in the Disney Dining Plan (e.g. alcoholic beverages)." (italics mine)

 

[Tricia1972]

I want to know where the resteraunt is that is giving out these free meals? Now, I usually eat ALONE, and I don't see DDE being feasable for me.

I don't understand how the DDE isn't feasible for you when you already have the card.

Taking a look at your bill from Kona - here are the financial break downs.

2007 Plan - 15% tip on discounted bill
$121.50 - Food Bill
-$24.30 - DDE Discount
+$14.58 - 15% tip on Discounted B ill
$114.78 - Total Bill

2007 Plan - No Tip
$121.50 - Food Bill
-$24.30 - DDE Discount
$97.20 - Total Bill

2008 Plan - DDE
$121.50 - Food and Beverage Bill
$24.30 - DDE Discount
$21.87 - 18% Tip on food and beverages
$119.07 - Total Bill

2008 Plan - No DDE and no Tip
$121.50 - Food and Beverage Bill

2008 Plan - No DDE and 15% Tip
$121.50 - Food and Beverage Bill
$18.23 - Tip
$139.73 - Total Bill

You save $20 using DDE and giving the 18% gratuity over not using the plan and paying a 15% tip to the server. You even save $2 using the DDE and tipping the server 18% than not using the DDE and not tipping the server at all.

Assuming you eat 4 TS dinners at Disney each year, with similar bills, you'd more than pay for your card. Personally, it doesn't matter to me if you get the card or not, but to say it's not economically feasible doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Colson39]

Since it's obvious so many people tip on the discounted amount, I am now very happy that Disney instituted this policy.

Congratulations Disney servers, you will no longer have to deal with this problem!!

This must be exactly WHY they instituted this, because so many people were doing this and stiffing their servers, and now I can't tell you how happy I am that it has been corrected.

No more taking advantage of the wait staff, woohoo!!!

 

[dqpowell]

Since it's obvious so many people tip on the discounted amount, I am now very happy that Disney instituted this policy.

Congratulations Disney servers, you will no longer have to deal with this problem!!

As has been clearly indicated (either on this thread or one of the others about this topic) Disney servers were opposed to this change and for the most part, voted against it.

Also wondering if you'd respond to the questions I asked you in my previous post.

David

 

[apostolic4life]

What about this scenerio:
We usually charge our restaurant bill and leave cash as a tip for the server. Having had friends/family in the industry this is what they have always said is a preference for them. So we pay the restaurant for our food and pay the server for their service to us. (Usually about 20-25%)
With this new policy is this still possible? Can we ask for the tip to be left off our bill so we can leave cash? Wonder how the restaurants will handle this now? I'm sure we're not the only ones to do this.

Servers prefer cash tips for two reasons:

1.) They can take those tips home with them every night
2.) They can get away with tax fraud by not fully reporting how much they made in cash tips........reporting cash tips is strictly on the honor system. My dear wife came under scrutiny from here fellow servers because she did a full disclosure of her tips every night. They told her she was making them look like thieves and liars; I told her their own actions made them thieves and liars. That was seven years ago but I am sure the practice still goes on.

As for getting them to leave it off the bill, I would not bet on that. Everyone will be held to the same standard and that includes making every server accountable for that 18% auto-gratuity for DDE.

 

[apostolic4life]

As has been clearly indicated (either on this thread or one of the others about this topic) Disney servers were opposed to this change and for the most part, voted against it.

Also wondering if you'd respond to the questions I asked you in my previous post.

David

Of course they are against it......now they will not as easily be able to under report the tips they collect every night (see my previous post). Now they will have a larger tax amount to pay due to the auto-gratuity being in the system already.

 

[TLSnell1981]

Servers prefer cash tips for two reasons:

1.) They can take those tips home with them every night
2.) They can get away with tax fraud by not fully reporting how much they made in cash tips........reporting cash tips is strictly on the honor system. My dear wife came under scrutiny from here fellow servers because she did a full disclosure of her tips every night. They told her she was making them look like thieves and liars; I told her their own actions made them thieves and liars. That was seven years ago but I am sure the practice still goes on.

As for getting them to leave it off the bill, I would not bet on that. Everyone will be held to the same standard and that includes making every server accountable for that 18% auto-gratuity for DDE.

It was stated on this board...by a disney server no less.....that they are tipped out in cash for their credit card gratuities. It was said while they may make $500 in tips, their checks may only be for $50....and this person works part-time.

 

[Tricia1972]

Of course they are against it......now they will not as easily be able to under report the tips they collect every night (see my previous post). Now they will have a larger tax amount to pay due to the auto-gratuity being in the system already.

Yes, they will need to post the auto gratuities for those bills using the DDE card. However, in reality they may have to report less overall. I would guess that many more use the DDP than use the DDE. DDP patrons have the option now of tipping in cash, which would not need to be reported.

 

[bicker]

Disney is not 'offering' me squat.

All mass-market business transactions consist of an offer by a service provider and an acceptance by a customer. This isn't a debatable issue... it's a matter of speaking a common language so we can discuss something.

First, I made the decision to pay $151 more for me to get an AP than to just get a 10 Day MYW Hopper Plus which would have handled my park needs, in order to qualify for a DDE, THEN.. I paid an additional $65 for the DDE. No generosity was involved, least of all by anyone associated with Disney.

The generosity I referred to was the generic cases where the restaurant extended considerations that it was under no obligation to offer, specifically, allowing a patron to get a $30 meal for $25, due to extending the patron a $5 discount. Again, my comment was discussing this issue in the general case. Yes, you paid for that discount, so perhaps that one word in my message, "generosity", doesn't resonate with your specific situation. However, you didn't pay the server for that discount, and that discount was only on the food portion of the bill, so the general principles with regard to tipping based on the pre-discounted sub-total stands as I explained them.

 

[apostolic4life]

It was stated on this board...by a disney server no less.....that they are tipped out in cash for their credit card gratuities. It was said while they may make $500 in tips, their checks may only be for $50....and this person works part-time.

Yes, I have read the posts you refer to, but I don't buy it.......on another thread where the auto-gratuity has been interjected into the discussion, a reliable DIS'er has stated references to 3 other servers informing them that credit card tips are not cashed out by WDW but instead held and added to paychecks. The one here only has 16 posts so I will not be able to accept their word as gospel truth.....they could have an agenda or even an axe to grind....we don't know for sure so I will be a little skeptical of the newbie. Sorry, but a poster has to earn my trust!!!

 

[apostolic4life]

Yes, they will need to post the auto gratuities for those bills using the DDE card. However, in reality they may have to report less overall. I would guess that many more use the DDP than use the DDE. DDP patrons have the option now of tipping in cash, which would not need to be reported.

Yes, but the whole idea of the auto-grat is not an issue with the DDP (unless it is a party of 6+), but many people on the DDP thread are still debating if they should pay with KTW card or Credit Card when addressing the tip issue because they do not want to carry the cash in with them just for tips. If they pay with any way except for cash the tip has to be reported since it will have an electronic record.

 

[apostolic4life]

All mass-market business transactions consist of an offer by a service provider and an acceptance by a customer. This isn't a debatable issue... it's a matter of speaking a common language so we can discuss something.

The generosity I referred to was the generic cases where the restaurant extended considerations that it was under no obligation to offer, specifically, allowing a patron to get a $30 meal for $25, due to extending the patron a $5 discount. Again, my comment was discussing this issue in the general case. Yes, you paid for that discount, so perhaps that one word in my message, "generosity", doesn't resonate with your specific situation. However, you didn't pay the server for that discount, and that discount was only on the food portion of the bill, so the general principles with regard to tipping based on the pre-discounted sub-total stands as I explained them.

As much as I hate it, I have to agree with you bicker.

No one forces us to purchase the DDE card do they! When we purchase it, it is a form of acceptance on our part of the offered contract of the pending benefits. If the perceived benefits did not out-weigh the cost why would we even bother???

 

[paulh]

When a disney CM phoned me acouple of months ago regarding the 18% gratuity for next year i was told:-
1.if on the DDP/DDDP everyone from 1 person up will have to pay a 18% gratuity on the full value of the meal
2.if on the DDP and want an appitizer you will have to pay cash for it plus the added 18% gratuity
3.partys of 6 or more paying cash will have to pay an added 18% on the full price of meal
4.If using the DDE card an 18% gratuity will be added to the full bill before any discount aplyied
5.partys of 1 to 5 paying cash for a meal can tip what they want
This was in responce to an email i sent them regarding the removal off appitizer and tip from ddp next year
Looks to me they have changed number 5 to inline with rest
Guess we will be eating more ofsite rather than poor service TS onsite
Have yet to here if they are adding 18% to CS meals but thats a bit rich if they do
Paulh

I posted this on page 9

No thank you (and the other mods) for working so hard to keep all the discussions together and on-track!

Now, I tried to keep up with all 50+ pages but, contrary to what my dh thinks, I do have a little bit of a life outside the DIS, so forgive me if this has been asked and answered. In the olden days (you know, like, until the end of 2007), if you had the DDP (with the 18% auto-gratuity) and ordered anything extra (adult beverages, more food, etc.), most of the restaurants added an 18% auto-gratuity to your separate check for those extra items.

Does anyone have any guesses as to whether this will work the other way next year? If you have the DDP (no gratuities included, or auto-calculated), but also use your DDE card (with it's mandatory 18% gratuity) for appetizers (which won't be included) or a couple of quarts of lapu lapus (which I'm really going to need if I spend much more time calculating the pros and cons of the various dining discount options), will the restaurant carry over the 18% gratuity from the DDE portion of your bill to the DDP portion?

I realize there probably isn't an answer to this yet, other than we'll have to wait and see. I just wondered what everyone thought (not to mention I wasn't ready to see this thread drop off the first page quite yet).

Like you would find it strange to order drinks get a bill for drinks + 18%(as on 2007 ddp)order an app and it be on same bill +18% then be presentd with a surgested bill for the gratuity for the food on the ddp ect.you will get one bill with app+drinks+ 18% gratuity for whole meal in one go
Paulh

 

[Tricia1972]

The only thing in your post is that the DDP and DDDP customers - parties 1-5 will not be assessed an auto gratuity.

 

[TLSnell1981]

Yes, I have read the posts you refer to, but I don't buy it.......on another thread where the auto-gratuity has been interjected into the discussion, a reliable DIS'er has stated references to 3 other servers informing them that credit card tips are not cashed out by WDW but instead held and added to paychecks. The one here only has 16 posts so I will not be able to accept their word as gospel truth.....they could have an agenda or even an axe to grind....we don't know for sure so I will be a little skeptical of the newbie. Sorry, but a poster has to earn my trust!!!

I found many inconsistencies in these posts. I also used to own a restaurant and know several people that do ....so I do have a little experience in this area.

I wouldn't think a company the size of Disney would tip out in cash. This would be an accounting nightmare for one( but not the only reason.)

I think it's interesting...that many Epcot restaurants are not owned by Disney..but uses their employees? Is this correct?

 

[wezee]

I hate to say this, and I'm already ducking the spit balls that I know will be flying my way..... but....... After reading the posters on the Dis and Allears complaining that the servers received an automatic gratuity from the DDP patrons in the past....and these same posters felt they did not receive the same service as the cash paying customer........I am not at all surprised they removed the paid gratuity from the DDP. I have heard over and over from many of you, that you think you would receive better service if the tip was controlled by the customer. Is it the fact that WDW decided on 18% that bothers so many people??? Would 10% be more acceptable? Or may 5%??
I would like to think that no one at WDW would totally stiff a server at a TS restaurant, when there is always a manager to talk to.

DH and I have been on the DDP and paid out of pocket at WDW restaurants and have never noticed any difference in our service.

We tip 20% and above and usually receive a seperate bill for alcoholic beverages, so this will not really affect us at all. They are doing me the favor of doing the math for me....and probably shorting their servers the extra 2% to 7% we used to pay.

Concerning the 18% on the DDE, those of you who say they will only receive a 2% savings instead of the 20%...........did the DDE card include the gratuity like the DDP used to???? Or did these OP just not leave a tip to capitalize on the DDE discount card??

 

[apostolic4life]

I found many inconsistencies in these posts. I also used to own a restaurant and know several people that do ....so I do have a little experience in this area.

I wouldn't think a company the size of Disney would tip out in cash. This would be an accounting nightmare for one( but not the only reason.)

I think it's interesting...that many Epcot restaurants are not owned by Disney..but uses their employees? Is this correct?

On the other thread I also discussed the nightmare an employer faces if they do not hold the CC tips till checks are cut.....I too have extensive food industry experience and own my own company so the whole tipping out cash for CC tips does not make sense for a company the size of WDW. I am not sure about how the employee issue is handled there, but if I my restaurant was located in WDW I do not think I would leave hiring to Disney. I have pretty high standards for hiring in my kitchens and front of house needs......just do not think Disney could get the right people that fit with my restaurant philosophy.