Baseball topic - Hating Steinbrenner

[Briar Rose 7457]

itsan alias, I'd hardly say George llacks backbone. he's ruthless and willing to do anything to succeed. men like that may lack a moral compass, but they are certainly not spineless. you are sounding more and more like an embittered Red Sox fan who has labored under the curse of the Bambino and seeks to make Steinbrenner a convenient scapegoat.


Steinbrenner can be a nasty and ruthless SOB, he can be very controversial. but he's a symptom of what's wrong with professional baseball, not the cause.

 

[Itsanalias]

I'm not a Red Sox fan. I'm a baseball fan. See, your definition of spineless and mine differ, obviously. My definition of spineless (well one of them, anyhow) is talking trash about something - in this case he talked trash that his "team" was better than Boston's team - and then not backing it up. The team that the Red Sox beat over the weekend is NOT the team that Georgie has today. Whether the Yanks are better now or not remains to be seen, but like I said, if he had a spine, he would have kept his team intact to see if they were truly the better team, I mean a 162 game schedule will decide who is the best team in each division. The playoffs are different, it's all about who's hot.

And whereas he may not be the cause, the phrase "if you're not part of the solution then you're part of the problem" applies most aptly here.

 

[Briar Rose 7457]

excuse me, but none of the teams that played in April are the teams that are playing today, and the teams playing today are not the teams we'll see in september.

you're upset with Steinbrenner "talking trash", but guess what? how many World Series trophies are sitting in the Bronx? and how many in Fenway? he backs up what he says. that seems to be your real issue.

 

[FunkyRooster]

I'm a Yankee fan and although I dislike many of the choices that Stein does, you have agree that he does know what he is doing. When you have the money and the fan base,you want to spend it the way you want to in order to win. Look at players like A-Rod and Griffy Jr. who are talented players but just ask for tons of money. At one time they played for valuable teams, but who do you blame when Texas spends tons of money and is in last place. Not a very good GM move. The Yankees, win because they have the fans, they have the money from the fans and therefore can afford the players that fit. But Boston, San Fran, Atlanta, and Seattle are big money makers too...why not blame them as well. Yes it's unfair for other teams b/c is seems as if the same teams will be winning every year but as every year goes by, there's another rookie coming in that will blow everyone away and another hero that is on their way out. Look at Puljos who is helping the Cards...who knows where they will be in a couple of years.

 

[Itsanalias]

Originally posted by Briar Rose 7457
excuse me, but none of the teams that played in April are the teams that are playing today, and the teams playing today are not the teams we'll see in september.

you're upset with Steinbrenner "talking trash", but guess what? how many World Series trophies are sitting in the Bronx? and how many in Fenway? he backs up what he says. that seems to be your real issue.

Sweetie, he didn't make those statements in April. He made them in July. Actually, he made them Monday. And actually, yes, these will be the teams we'll see in September/October for the most part. I mean no major blockbuster deals will be done now with the trade deadline passed. Minor deals may be made through the waiver wire, but nothing major will get done. I mean if the Expos put Vladimir Guerrero on waivers to try to trade him to NY, I guarantee you that each and every team would have a waiver request in on him post haste.

And just b/c he's bought past championships in this same manner, doesn't mean he backs up what he says...it means he has the cash to cover his hind end when his mouth runs without the benefit of his brain working at the same time.

 

[Adrianna]

Ding Ding Ding!

And round one goes to.........

 

[madonna31]

I just want to say 'I hate to love the Yankee's'...

...but I mean - when it comes down to it, shouldn't you just pick the team that you KNOW is gonna win the pool???

 

[TiggerPiglet]

I personally feel that expansion is what's killing baseball. There are just too many teams and as a result you have people playing that shouldn't be playing. The Yankees are victims to this too. I was watching a little of the Yankee game with my DH last week, and I see Jesse Orosco (sp?) pitching. He's 46 years old!!!! I asked my DH if this was the Old Timer's game and he said, no, the Yankees just got him
If they would get rid of some of these teams, you could get rid of a lot of these old players that have no business playing anymore and you would see a lot more teams being able to compete. Like someone pointed out, the Mets have a high payroll and they stink. Money doesn't buy everything. You also have teams putting all their eggs in one basket, like Texas getting A-Rod and Cinn. getting Ken G., Jr., one man cannot win a championship. I think a lot of teams could take a lesson from George. If you look back to the late 90's when the Yankees started winning the World Series again, their team was not made up of superstars. They had good solid players, the talent was spread around. There was always a different guy coming through to win the game. Okay, maybe as of late George is starting to concentrate on getting big names, but that isn't always the case.
So, as I stated before, George is not killing baseball, expansion is. Just this Yankee fan's humble opinion

 

[Briar Rose 7457]

People have been hating the Yankees since long before I was born. (remember "Damn Yankees"? -- in a minute I expect Silky to ost a picture of Gwen as Lola. )

but I think the point you're making about expansion is a valid one. if the market doesn't support so many teams, why do we have them?

and itsanalias, my friend, George has been spouting his tough talk for years. just because he made a comment on Monday and not several months ago is irrelevant. the Yankees weren't the only ones making trades like crazy just before the deadline. there's a reason there's a deadline, after all.

 

[joeokw]

OK let's take a look at this.. All of this Anti- Steinbreener thing.. is because there plenty of envious Yankee haters out there. I have a few points. No complains of the Mets's 110 millon payroll albleit ..since they dumped a lot of payroll recently. secondly Steinbrenner's fortune almost exclusively comes from the Yankees. Most of baseball teams are owned by large corporations.. ie AOL/time Warner owns the Braves, Tribune Corp. owns the Cubs, the guy who owns FOX owns the Dodgers.. who have a 105 millon payroll and they are out of it,the guy who owns the Mariners who owns NIintendo.The Angels were owned by a small company named Disney up until this year..lol Toronto are owned by Molson 's.. and the rest of the teams are owned by multi-millionaires/ billonaires.. Steinbrenner in fact is worth less than most of these owners. The BIG difference between Steinbrenner and the rest of thse owners.. that he believes the only way to make money is to spend money. Every penny is reinvested into the team . He built and owns the cable system here that broadcast the Yankees.. The fact the Yankees are in the biggest media market in the country helps too. No one twists his arm when the New York local radio station WCBS 88 pays him more than most of the the teams get from TV and cable combined. The Yankees pays a huge luxury tax. Most owners justs pocket this money without putting back into the team. The Yankees make the most money from merchandising than any team in sports. The Yankees draw more fans on the road than any team in baseballl. This year when the Yankees go to a city say like Aniheim the Angels double their attendence.. that makes more money for them. The Phillies, White Sox, Cubs, Astros, Angels, are considered small to mid market sized teams despite being in the second, third, fourth and fifth largest metro areas in the country. why is that? simple their ownersa do not want to spend to win!!!

All I can say is he plays by the rules afforded to him. is that his fault? Boston, San Francisco, got plyers too.. It is just sour grapes when the Yankees win.

 

[joeokw]

OK let's take a look at this.. All of this Anti- Steinbreener thing.. is because there plenty of envious Yankee haters out there. I have a few points. No complains of the Mets's 110 millon payroll albleit ..since they dumped a lot of payroll recently. secondly Steinbrenner's fortune almost exclusively comes from the Yankees. Most of baseball teams are owned by large corporations.. ie AOL/time Warner owns the Braves, Tribune Corp. owns the Cubs, the guy who owns FOX owns the Dodgers.. who have a 105 millon payroll and they are out of it,the guy who owns the Mariners who owns NIintendo.the angels y a small company named Disney up until this year..lol Toronto are owned by Molson 's.. and the rest of the teams are owned by multi-millionaires/ billonaires.. Steinbrenner in fact is worth less than most of these owners.

 

[madonna31]

Toronto are owned by Molson 's

um - yeah....no....The Blue Jays USE to be owned by Labatt's Blue (that must be where your getting the beer thing from) but they are now owned by Rogers Communications...which is a FAR cry from a big corporation in the likes of Disney...

 

[Miss Jasmine]

I hate the Yankees. They represent EVERYTHING that is wrong with baseball right now. Steinbrenner is taking advantage of weak leadership in MLB. If he truly cared about baseball and not just with winning, he would lend his skills to improving MLB not just the Yankees.

Yes, Selig screwed up with expansion. I do believe he is one of the dumbest men on earth. Aren't the Owners looking around and watching the WHOLE organization crumbling before them. The majority of ball parks are EMPTY, even teams with a winning record, no one is coming out to see.

It's a sad state of affairs. And it really bothers me. Some of my fondest memories are of my dad taking me to pirates games. Baseball began my love for all sports. And to see where MLB is today is just terrible.

 

[madonna31]

"There's no crying in baseball!!!"

Come on guys - what? This isn't a movie - this is REAL life...these idiots don't care about "For the Love of the Game"...it's a BUSINESS - and what's the purpose of a business??? To make money...

Why do NHL teams now have like 3 different home jerseys? Yep - so they can sell more jerseys...it's about making money - not playing a game anymore...

I mean once the players are in the majors - all they care about is the almighty dollar anyhow - hence the reason that minor league games are always better - they are still playing w/heart...

 

[Itsanalias]

As jimmiej pointed out on the Debate Board, the thing that Steinbrenner isn't getting that the business isn't the New York Yankees. The business is Major League Baseball. What you Steinbrenner backers don't get is that without Major League Baseball, there is no NY Yankees. MLB could exist without the Yanks, but the Yanks couldn't exist without MLB. THAT'S the difference.

And I'll reiterate once more, if Georgie would have flapped his yap on Monday on how the Sox hadn't won anything yet (even after the Yanks were embarassed at Fenway), and kept his team intact to prove that they truly had the better squad (with their $150million payroll), then this thread is non-existent. The fact that he brought in "hired guns" to "win" him the division shows that he's spineless.

And joeokw, yes, Boston and San Fran got players too, but they didn't sport the highest payroll in the league before doing so, and certainly don't sport the highest payroll in the aftermath of the trades. I think that SF was stupid for giving up two quality arms to get Ponson for potentially half of a year, but that's a whole other subject. Boston really didn't give up anything to get Suppan, who is going to struggle at Fenway anyhow, so that's a non-issue. The Sox made their deals in the off-season and are pretty much sticking with their team.

 

[Briar Rose 7457]

a song just for Itsanalais:

Damn Yankees Soundtrack Lyrics

Six Months Out of Every Year

Meg:
Six months out of every year
I might as well be made of stone
Six months out of every year
When I'm with him...
Meg:
I'm alone
Men:
Ooo...ooo...
Meg:
Six months out of every year
He doesn't take me anywhere
Six months out of every year
When I play cards,
Solitaire
Men:
Come on Come
Damn!
Meg:
The other six months out of every year
We are hardly ever seen apart
But then the Washington Senators
Take over my place In his heart
Six moths out of every year
I might as well be wearing crepe
Life is just an awful bore
From which I find no escape
Women:
Six months out of every year
Meg:
When we met in Nineteen Thirty-Eight
It was November
Sister:
When I said that I would be his mate
It was December!
Gloria:
I reasoned he would be the greatest husband
That a girl had ever found...
Paula and Cynthia:
That's what I reasoned...
Nancy and Amy:
That's what I reasoned...
All woman:
Then April rolled around!
Men:
Strike three ball four
Walk a run'll tie the score
Fly ball double play
Yankees win again today
Those Damn Yankees why can't we beat 'em
He's out He's safe
He's out He's safe
He's out He's safe
He's out
Yer blind Ump
Yer blind Ump
Ya must be outta yer mind Ump
Women:
Six moths
Out of ev'ry year
He lives by the television set
Meg:
He's Out
He's Safe,
He's Out,
Women:
If you
See that man of mine;
How does he look?
I forget
Men:
Let's go!
Women:
Six moths
Of ev'ry year,
We know there is no other dame.
Men:
He's Out,
He's Safe,
He's Out
Women:
If he
Isn't home by six,
It's six to one
There's e game.
Men:
Let's Go! Let's Go!
Women:
Six months out of ev'ry year,
When we cook for them,
It never pays.
Men:
AAHH!!
Women:
Instead of praising our goulash,
They're appraising the plays
Of Willie Mays
Women:
He's Out,
He's Safe,
He's Out,
He's Safe,
He's Out,
He's Safe,
He's Out!

Women: Meg:
Six months, Strike Three,
Out of ev'ry year, Ball four,
Walk,
A run'll tie the score.
We might as Fly ball,
Well be wearing crepe. Yankees win again today!
Life is Those Damn Yankees!
Just an awful bore from which Why can't we beat 'em.

Girls: Men:
We find He's Out,
He's Safe,
He's Out
He's Safe,
He's Out
He's Safe,
He's Out!
No escape Yer blind Ump,
Yer blind Ump,
Ye must be outta yer mind Ump!
We're dying for the mercury Let's Go!
To drop to three below.
We're crying for the happy days Let's Go!
Of icicles of snow,
We don't mind sleeping solo, Those Damn Yankees!
That is,
Once a year or so,
But with them it's a career. What are we waiting
For? April, May
Men June, July,
Blah! August, September.
April, May
June, July,
August, [BURP!]
September,
All
Six months out of ev'ry year...
Men:
Yer blind Ump,
Yer blind Ump,
Ye must be outta yer mind Ump!
Women:
Year!





your posts reek of Yankee-bashing. nothing new there.

 

[Itsanalias]

BR - I'm not Yankee Bashing...I'm Georgie Bashing, BIG difference. I thought you were an attorney.

 

[Briar Rose 7457]

what you're doing, itsanalias, is bashing George for what he's doing with his team. obviously you wouldn't feel so strongly if George wasn't so successful at it. your argument is something along the lines of "Of course those damn Yankees win. Steinbrenner bought the championship." do I have that right?

 

[Briar Rose 7457]

and let me pose a query -- if tomorrow George decided he'd rather just be a fan and decided to sell the team (fantasyland, i know), would that "cure" everything? of course not.

 

[Itsanalias]

No, I wouldn't feel so strongly about it if Georgie weren't dumping on the game and hurting it. THAT'S the bottom line. It has nothing to do with success. He may be playing within the rules of the game, but it still doesn't absolve him from not hurting it at every turn.