Avatar!

That's not the problem people I know are having with it. . . Trying to think of how to say it, without setting off a fire storm. . .hmm. . .the problems American Indians have with Pocahantas are the same problems people are having with Avatar.

That said, I loved the special effects :-).

I'm not sure what you mean. I understand that American Indians sometimes feel like portrayals such as Pocahontas unfairly stereotype them, but how does that relate to Avatar? The native race in Avatar are the Na'vi. As far as I know, this alien race is science fiction, so they can't be upset about their portrayal. They don't exist. I'm confused.:confused3 Can you spell it out for me?
 
We loved it so much we saw it twice last weekend! The first time was just me and DH. The second time around we decided we needed to bring more people with us. We got my mom, the in-laws, my dd and her friend! I loved it even more the second time around!
 
We are going to see on Saturday - Can't wait :)
 
intially didn't want to post this, as it is a very long read and certainly goes against the grain, but since at least a few of you were also not that impressed by the film, I wanted to share an in-depth analysis from the negative perspective.

Warning: Many spoilers.
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My wife and I were finally able to witness James Cameron’s latest epic ‘Avatar’ . With all the hype that has surrounded this film, it would seem almost necessary to see it at some point or another. So, did it live up to expectations? Well, truth be told, we were ultimately somewhat underwhelmed. Here I shall do my best to break down and list the essential issues that were brought up in discussion upon leaving the screen.

Firstly was the storyline. Be honest – how many times have you seen this template in film and literature?

• Disillusioned soldier is sent on mission by his technologically superior people against ‘primitive’, spiritually-minded aboriginals.
• Said character ends up among aboriginals following an unfortunate incident, but his life is spared because his behaviour under the circumstances leads one of the natives to believe he is different from his fellows and they reluctantly teach him their ways.
• In spite of some difficulties in adapting to this foreign culture, the soldier eventually settles into his new life and finds that he actually prefers his hosts’ way of living to those of his own people, even falling for a native woman.
• His own people eventually move to attack the natives in spite of his diplomatic efforts to avoid this, leading him to side with his adopted culture against his former comrades.
• He goes from being viewed by his new associates as a guest and stranger to a figure of leadership and genuine member of the society, leading them into a climactic final battle against the aforementioned former comrades in spite of their technological superiority.
• Said last stand leads to either of the following endings: A) The defenders are ultimately defeated, but the enemy leader is touched by their heroism in the face of certain death, finding new respect for his vanquished foes and recognising their culture’s right to exist, even if they will likely not survive for much longer. B) Using a sophisticated battle plan based around their knowledge of the landscape and their enemy’s exploitable weaknesses, the defenders are miraculously able to defeat their oppressors and the protagonist’s sense of belonging is cemented among his new people.

I'll give James Cameron credit for applying this concept to science-fiction, as this has not to my knowledge been undertaken to this extent within this particular genre, but nonetheless I found his adherence to this template blatantly obvious to the point of irritation. This is a film that is being almost universally acclaimed as a masterpiece; a challenge that has never before been made in the world of cinema. You may think this unreasonable of me, but if I am about to view a film for the first time that is being described from every angle with various, colourful synonyms for ‘extraordinary’, I do not expect a plot so ‘cookie-cutter’ in it’s essentials. I even go so far as to suggest the film’s title should have been ‘Dancing With Aliens’. While under most circumstances I can take a fair amount of tropes and clichés, I as a viewer would like to feel that the creative team is treating me as though I have a modicum of intelligence. Yet instead of any subtle food-for-thought, I had themes foreseeable for anybody familiar with this premise shoved into my face with vivid colours. There was even a moment when I was treated to an environmental message seconds before the inevitable final battle, near-comically shoehorned in as the protagonist leads his troops into their first assault. As I have made several references to the plot’s predictability, I shall illustrate my sentiments with a few examples that me and the cousin brought up while watching the film:

• As Jake is brought into the Na’vi settlement and begrudgingly accepted as their guest and student – Cousin: ‘He’s going to betray his own race, isn’t he?’
• As Jake pathetically attempts to follow Neytiri’s example of how to descend to the ground by breaking one’s fall with leaves during his training – Me: ‘There’s obviously going to be a point later on where he’ll have to do that to save his life.’
• As Neytiri explains to Jake that only five Na'vi have tamed the Toruk and those who bond with it can unite the Na'vi clans – Me: ‘And let me guess: you’re going to be the next one who does it, thus cementing your position as their pseudo-Messianic saviour in spite of your alien status?’

Seriously, there are practically no plot developments across the entire film that one would find any difficulty in foreseeing. Now, if this were simply yet another blockbuster action film, I may be able to take this in my stride. But I reiterate: this is a film that people are lauding as a modern landmark in cinema. If I can potentially work out the entire film after watching it for less than 10 minutes, that doesn’t strike me as a ‘masterpiece’. It strikes me as a fundamentally average film that has been given exceptional cosmetic treatment.

Whilst some of the presented sci-fi concepts caught my interest and succeeded to an extent in distinguishing the film from other comparable works, such as the previously alluded-to ‘Dancing With Wolves’, I found them to be somewhat of double-edged sword, in several places actually hurting the delivery of the film’s message. One manner in which I mean is the love story between Jake and Neytiri. In most cases, one can accept a man becoming romantically involved with a person of his adopted society, since the only difference presented between the two is cultural. However, while the film’s eponymous Avatars are established as being produced in substantial part from Na’vi DNA, they are presented as being nothing more than remote vehicles for their human users and while the mentally-inhabiting nature of the Avatars would believably cause one to become more immersed in the world of the Na’vi, the human mind is ultimately independent from the ‘host’ shell, meaning that Jake became enamoured of a Na’vi entirely under his own psychological accord. I could understand Jake experiencing strong emotional attachment to his newfound alien associates, but unlike explorations of human/alien romance in such franchises as ‘Star Trek’ where sapient aliens exist that are similar enough to humans for romantic attraction to be reasonably comprehendible, I find it impossible to stomach that a human could become sexually interested in a giant, blue, furry creature that looks like a cross between a feline and a monkey. It is easy enough to understand the film’s message in this regard of inter-cultural harmony and being able to recognise inner beauty in spite of apparent barbarity, but as presented here between characters of completely different species that only resemble each-other in the vaguest sense, it simply proved too bizarre (and borderline zoophiliac) for me to suspend my disbelief over. With all the imagery in the film that was obviously intended to evoke such real-world conflicts as Vietnam, I only half-jokingly suggested that they may as well have simply set the film in Vietnam. Sure, cutting out all of the sci-fi aspects would likely throw its ‘distinct’ status clean out the window, but I reckon it would do wonders for the film’s internal logic.

While giving this its own paragraph will likely make it stick out rather awkwardly in the scope of the critique, I cannot really fit it under any of the general headings I’ve made thus far, but wish to address it at some point or another. Can anybody inform me why it is that while their Hometree is being destroyed by the gunships, the Na'vi’s arrows are ineffective against their armour plating and bulletproof glass in spite of their weight of fire to the point that their human crews are simply amused by their efforts, yet when the climactic battle finally occurs, their windscreens seem to offer such little protection that single arrows can smash clean through and take out the pilot, even though the Na'vi appear to be using the same sort of longbows as previously? For that matter, why is it that the bombing shuttle loaded with explosives is so integral to the human’s plan to destroy the Tree of Souls when the far larger Hometree had been successfully toppled with a barrage of conventional missiles? Considering how little firepower would logically be required to bring down the Tree of Souls, surely all that the humans would have needed to do was have the surviving aircraft open fire with their standard weapons once the target was in range? Ok, it is very easy to accuse me and my cousin of being overly-fastidious over such details and we should easily be able to suspend our disbelief and enjoy these sequences as simple entertainment, yet the very fact that our suspension of disbelief in the film had completely faded to the point that we were actively making fun of it during the climax says a lot about how little emotional investment the film succeeded in gaining from us. The plain truth is that we had grown so tired of being able to predict every step of the story that these little hiccups in internal logic were sticking out to us like sore thumbs. This is not to guarantee that should you see the film for the first time, you will also fail to become emotionally invested. Far from it – it’s very clear there are floods of people who enjoyed every bit of this film and we who treat it scathingly are but a small minority. However, what baffles me and my cousin is how overwhelmingly positive the film’s reception has been. I can imagine why a lot of people would for the most part be satisfied with their experience, but a great many seem to ardently believe that this film does no wrong whatsoever and truth be told, I feel as though I am stepping into a firing line simply for bringing up any of the negative points I’ve mentioned thus far.

However, while I have probably made myself sound as though I detested every aspect of this film, this actually is not the case. It has been said time and again that the visuals are spectacular and trust me, they really are. The graphics include some of the best I’ve ever seen and the atmosphere of a truly alien world is captured by the surreal palettes and flora/fauna designs. While one can easily find parts that would suspend disbelief as was the case for me and my cousin, the action sequences are directed in an ambitiously imaginative fashion and will likely prove a popular choice for fan-made music videos once the DVD has been released. Yet while I feel somewhat of a grumpy old man for thinking this way, outstanding graphics should not automatically grant a ‘masterwork’ status to an otherwise colour-by-numbers film. While succeeding in resembling little of what has been seen before in science-fiction, at times the pseudo-spiritual network of the Pandora wildlife seemed to be somewhat too extensive for me to be able to believe as a form of symbiosis achievable from a Darwinian standpoint. The manner in which it appeared the Na’vi could bond with practically anything else on the planet even led to us conversing over whether or not they could pick up squirrels and mind-meld with them too. Prior to the release of either film, I recall somebody voicing their disappointment over how the seeming lack of popular value for creative science-fiction would guarantee that this year, only limited audiences would bother to see ‘Moon’ yet ‘Avatar’ would be an instant blockbuster. I almost don’t wish to say this at the risk of sounding like a hard sci-fi purist, since there is still a place in my favourite films for space opera and action/sci-fi (such as, oddly enough, Cameron’s earlier classic ‘Aliens’), having now been able to view both of these, I must say that I understand the feeling. With its banal plot and stock characters, ‘Avatar’ was certainly a disappointment for me. If there was anything remotely ‘thought-provoking’ in its shallow, predictable themes, it evidently went clear over my head. One need only look as far back as the 2003 film ‘The Last Samurai’ to find a cinematic entry with an almost identical story template and underlying message.

Final verdict: 6/10
 

My take on the film is the opposite of PK Disney Dork.

I enjoyed the storyline. I have never seen Dances with Wolves, so I can't compare the two. I thought the character development throughout the story was excellent to watch and fully believable. You watched this soldier who was basically sent in as a spy for the army in order to help with an upcoming attack. Then, we see how he begins to identify and even sympathize with the tribe he has infiltrated. Watching him as he realized that he was on the wrong side, and come to terms with this fact were handled wonderfully by the director. I also found the final battle scene to be believable. Sure the Na'vi were outgunned and out numbered, but they had the advantage of knowing the lay of the land. It was like Vietnam. We had the greater army, but they used their terrain to their advantage. Same thing here. Also, they staged a multi front attack. There was a ground attack, an air attack from the front and another from the back. It was totally believable. Also nice, was the fact that while the battle was going on, you could follow what was happening. In many action films today, once the action starts, everything becomes a blur of explosions and special effects to the point that the viewer can't tell what is happening. In this film, the action scenes were well directed and helped to move along the plot.

I also was able to predict some future scenes in this movie. It didn't bother me much that I kind of knew where the movie was going. This wasn't supposed to be a M Night Shyamalan movie where the viewer is supposed to keep guessing and then be surprised at the end. The story was so well written and fleshed out that the ride alone made it worth it. Also, it wasn't just the main character that had a significant change. Many in the Na'vi tribe also had great character growth throughout the film. Many films focus on one main character and their change and treat the other characters like cardboard cutouts. This film showed how many characters changed and grew as a result of new relationships.

I found the interspecies love story that developed to be entirely believable. There was a connection on a cerebral level that was entirely believable between the two. I found the alien to look quite humanoid, except for the tail and feline features on the face. Also, as the main character was learning about the Na'vi, he was slowly becoming one of them. So, I could see falling for her.

This film really took science fiction to a new level. The same way that Star Wars or Matrix were landmarks in sci-fi, this film is the next landmark. The message of this film may have been told before, but not in such an entertaining and visually impressive way. This is one of the best films I have seen this year.
 
OK.....I have to ask. Did the plants in the movie remind anyone else of th ET ride at universal? :rotfl:
 
This may be a stupid question/comment, but I always assumed this movie was based off of the Avatar cartoons that my DS10 is forever watching. From the posted synopses, though, it doesn't sound like the two are related, so.... are they? lol
 
This may be a stupid question/comment, but I always assumed this movie was based off of the Avatar cartoons that my DS10 is forever watching. From the posted synopses, though, it doesn't sound like the two are related, so.... are they? lol

They aren't. That movie is called The Last Airbender. Avatar is about an alien race tying to fight off an evil Earth corporation from destroying their planet.
 
They aren't. That movie is called The Last Airbender. Avatar is about an alien race tying to fight off an evil Earth corporation from destroying their planet.


This is correct! And to add to it...Cameron and the studios behind Avatar basically muscled the makers of The Last Airbender into dropping the "Avatar" portion of the title. So that their Avatar would be the only one.
 
We loved the movie. I thought it was so beautiful. I was probably the only one who made the connection but it made me miss Disney. Sometimes a few bars of the music made we think of Illuminations.
 
OK.....I have to ask. Did the plants in the movie remind anyone else of th ET ride at universal? :rotfl:

Now that you mention it, yes. Now, that we have found a connection there, let's see if we can somehow connect this film to Kevin Bacon. Lets see...

Sigourney Weaver was in Working Girl with Harrison Ford.
Harrison Ford was in Air Force One with Glenn Close.
Glenn Close was in Mars Attacks with Jack Nicholson.
Jack Nicholson was in A Few Good Men with Kevin Bacon.

Can someone do it in less than four degrees of separation?
 
I liked it. :thumbsup2 But then, I'm very upfront about going to movies to be entertained. I feel no need to analyze the plot and when the holes are so big it's silly I'll usually just laugh and enjoy the effects (Like "2012"). I enjoyed the story and sat in awe of the animation. Did anyone else notice that there were a few scenes where the female lead moved in almost the same sequence of movements as Pocahontas?
 
Now that you mention it, yes. Now, that we have found a connection there, let's see if we can somehow connect this film to Kevin Bacon. Lets see...

Sigourney Weaver was in Working Girl with Harrison Ford.
Harrison Ford was in Air Force One with Glenn Close.
Glenn Close was in Mars Attacks with Jack Nicholson.
Jack Nicholson was in A Few Good Men with Kevin Bacon.

Can someone do it in less than four degrees of separation?

Sigourney Weaver was in Copycat with Harry Connick JR
Harry Connick JR was in My Dog Skip (narrator) with Kevin Bacon :woohoo:

I really expected to like this movie, but I was one who HATED it. I'm a big sci fi fan and also like epic movies like Dances With Wolves, etc. To me this movie was all about the visuals with a weak cliche story and script.
 
OK.....I have to ask. Did the plants in the movie remind anyone else of th ET ride at universal? :rotfl:


oh yea..
& the walking on the ground, like the exit from epcot at night.

LOTS of stuff reminded me of the "parks"

I think that is why I loved it so much.....
plot holes, yea..... but the scenery *wow*

even the bugs flying around at the beginning.. just detail. detail.....
 
Well, DH and grandsons made it a whole day outing day consisting of lunch, shopping and movies :goodvibes. DH rated Avatar an 11*, 15yo DGS 10*, and 13 yo DGS an 8*. :thumbsup2
 
I just saw this movie in 3D, thought it was very good :thumbsup2

I was almost disoriented mentally going back to the "real world" after seeing it...I hadn't had that happen since the Lord of the Rings films. That's how immersive the visuals and story are.

Yes, the plot is not the most original but I didn't care.
 
To all who saw Avatar, did you see trailers before the movies. Someone told me they had a trailer for a foreign movie is that true? She said it looked good but she did not understand.
 
To all who saw Avatar, did you see trailers before the movies. Someone told me they had a trailer for a foreign movie is that true? She said it looked good but she did not understand.

I saw the trailers, but no foreign movies....a few fantasy epics like Legion and Clash of the Titans
 















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