At what point are adults responsible for themselves?

[Planogirl]

Addiction also needs to be addressed. It's fine and understandable to be frustrated that people with health issues continue to smoke but it's not that easy to give up the smokes for many people.

 

[superme80]

I agree with OP and leaving it at that!

 

[arminnie]

I had an ER visit recently that started about 8 am. I hadn't eaten a thing so I was really hungry and getting a headache about 3 pm. I asked my nurse if there were any vending machines around.

He was so sweet and got me a meal. He said they normally did not provide food in the ER as their ER population TRIPLED if people thought they could get free food. How sad to spend hours in an ER to get a $3 lean cuisine.

I got admitted a few hours later, and my first question was "Do I get dinner?"

 

[Carly_Roach]

I agree with the OP. If you can buy cigarettes you can buy your medication. To go further,there should be a requirement that Medicaid recipients be tobacco free. Why should the taxpayer have to be burdened with medical costs that can be prevented by not smoking? Personal responsibility needs to be addressed.

If we're going to do that than I want to add another requirement: no medicaid recipient should be above the weight of 150 pounds. Why should the taxpayer have to be burdened with the medical costs that can be prevented by eating right? As a matter of fact, ANYONE who weighs over 125lbs should have their health care revoked and have to pay for everything themselves. They made the choice to gain weight, they should make the choice to lose it.

And no women medicaid recipients. We all know that the costs for treating women (childbearing, reproductive issues, etc) are more than the costs for treating men. The taxpayer shouldn't be burdened with that, either.

And get those kids off medicaid as well. With their battery of immunizations, childhood illnesses and proclivity to fall and hurt themselves, I shouldn't have to pay for someone else's decision to reproduce. Children are money hogs and I, as the taxpayer, shouldn't be responsible for paying for them.

The next rule should be at the first sign of cancer, diabetes or other disease, the medicaid stops completely. We taxpayers can't afford to pay for the treatment of those diseases. At $215 a pop (death benefit for SS recipients) funerals are cheaper.

If you're going to make such a requirement about one thing, then why stop there? Childless people have been paying for schools for centuries. But if we've decided that we're going to start limiting what our tax dollars go for based on our own personal choices, then that's the next thing I want cut after the tobacco restriction.

 

[mhsjax]

My apologies. That was rude. I could have said it in a nicer way. I'm a little tense tonight.

No problem what so ever. And I know that it is hard, however, I don't like giving it to him for free when he could buy it but refuses to spend the money and yet he buys his cigs. I don't have a problem with medicaid for those who need it, but they have to help themselves a little

Another thing, you hear all the time about the elderly not being able to afford their prescriptions, so they either don't take them or occasionally you hear about them eating dog food so they can pay for them. 'Yet this man won't pay the $4.00 for this meds yet he buys cigs. Yes, that really burns me up. I have the weakest will power out there, and I managed to quit and if I can then anyone can.

 

[mhsjax]

Addiction also needs to be addressed. It's fine and understandable to be frustrated that people with health issues continue to smoke but it's not that easy to give up the smokes for many people.

It isn't easy for ANYBODY. it is extemely addictive, but it can be done and it is done all the time. NOt an excuse in my book.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Ou know what, I can judge, I was a smoker for 15 years. I decided that I had smoked long enough and I had kids therefore I would quit, I knew it was bad for me and I didn't even have any health problems, so I don't buy that it is an addiction, it is hard excuse. Sure it is hard, what in life isn't, he needs to quit, buy his meds and quit expecting the hospital to give it to him for free. End of story, back and white, cut and dry.

It isn't easy for ANYBODY. it is extemely addictive, but it can be done and it is done all the time. NOt an excuse in my book.

I am NOT a fan of cigarette smoking but I'll have to respectfully disagree with your stance. Not everyone is able to overcome their addictions.

I have taken care of patients whose dying wish was a cigarette and they used their last breath to continue to ask for one. Literally. And sadly.

And as others have repeatedly pointed out, our society is frought with diseases related to addictions. It doesn't mean we can't strive for change, but unfortunately, not everyone will be successful all the time.

And in the meantime, people are still deserving of compassionate care.

 

[mhsjax]

I am NOT a fan of cigarette smoking but I'll have to respectfully disagree with your stance. Not everyone is able to overcome their addictions.

I have taken care of patients whose dying wish was a cigarette and they used their last breath to continue to ask for one. Literally. And sadly.

And as others have repeatedly pointed out, our society is frought with diseases related to addictions. It doesn't mean we can't strive for change, but unfortunately, not everyone will be successful all the time.

And in the meantime, people are still deserving of compassionate care.

As I stated I quit so anyone can. Sorry but it is the truth. And I believe that anyone deserves compassion, up to a point. There is no way that I can justify in my head giving a man a medication for free that would have only cost him $4.00 and yet he buys cigs. Sorry but no amount of explaining will ever convince me that this is ok. Isn't going to happen. Sounds like we are talking about a man that knows what his conditions are and really would rather spend his money on cigs and then demand his medication for free. Not in my book, if it were up to me, he wouldn't get it. WE aren't talking about a med that costs a small fortune, I am strictly talking about this particular case.

If it were a case of this man had quit smoking and maybe had illnesses due to his smoking, sure I would think that he deserves to get the meds and yes maybe for free if he truly can't afford the meds. But to have a $4..00 drug and he won't buy it but yet he finds the money for cigs. NO WAY.

 

[Planogirl]

I don't think that everyone can just quit. I believe that addiction is worse for some. I don't know if that's the case for this man but I won't judge him either way.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

As I stated I quit so anyone can. Sorry but it is the truth. And I believe that anyone deserves compassion, up to a point. There is no way that I can justify in my head giving a man a medication for free that would have only cost him $4.00 and yet he buys cigs. Sorry but no amount of explaining will ever convince me that this is ok. Isn't going to happen. Sounds like we are talking about a man that knows what his conditions are and really would rather spend his money on cigs and then demand his medication for free. Not in my book, if it were up to me, he wouldn't get it. WE aren't talking about a med that costs a small fortune, I am strictly talking about this particular case.

If it were a case of this man had quit smoking and maybe had illnesses due to his smoking, sure I would think that he deserves to get the meds and yes maybe for free if he truly can't afford the meds. But to have a $4..00 drug and he won't buy it but yet he finds the money for cigs. NO WAY.

You and I really have no idea about this man's history and why he continues to smoke. For all we know he may have quit before many times and fallen off the wagon. Maybe he just lost his wife, his home or his job. Or maybe he has a mental illness or special needs. Or maybe he's quit but just bought that one pack. None of us know.

But bottom line is that I would expect that a non-health professional might feel the way you do. As health professionals, we're taught from the beginning that we need to be accepting of all patients and non-judgemental, etc. You don't have to be Mother Teresa to feel this way - it's Nursing and Medicine 101; elementary, if you will. It's why I said in my first post that you will have different reads on it. And the links I subsequently posted show the complexities involved in such an issue as well as show both the frustrations and best ways to deal with patients having these types of issues. (One link wasn't working but I'm going to try to find the article again as it was a good one.)

So if you are not a nurse, then I give you a pass, mshjax. If you are, then I say you need to step back and remember your lessons and why you went into nursing in the first place, as well as take a good look at how you're responding to issues that push your buttons.

 

[mhsjax]

I don't think that everyone can just quit. I believe that addiction is worse for some. I don't know if that's the case for this man but I won't judge him either way.

Fine you don't have to judge him, but I don't have a choice and neither do you when we have to pay for drugs that he and people like him won't pay for in order to keep up their habits. Being that just about everyone in my family smokes at one time or another and some for 30 plus years and we have all quit, I don't believe that you can't quit. I speak from experience, and anyone that says they can't is a cop out. You don't know me and you don't know how my addiction was, I went into a panick just thinking about quiting, I finally did. Went cold turkey 12 years ago and never looked back as did most of my family. So yes it can be done. But that isn't what the problem is really, can you give me a good reason why you would be ok with paying for someone else drugs because they refuse to give up a bad habit. Not me.

It is hard to give up alcohol too, does that mean we have compassion for the drunk driver that kills a family, where do you draw the line?

 

[mhsjax]

You and I really have no idea about this man's history and why he continues to smoke. For all we know he may have quit before many times and fallen off the wagon. Maybe he just lost his wife, his home or his job. Or maybe he has a mental illness or special needs. Or maybe he's quit but just bought that one pack. None of us know.

But bottom line is that I would expect that a non-health professional might feel the way you do. As health professionals, we're taught from the beginning that we need to be accepting of all patients and non-judgemental, etc. You don't have to be Mother Teresa to feel this way - it's Nursing and Medicine 101; elementary, if you will. It's why I said in my first post that you will have different reads on it. And the links I subsequently posted show the complexities involved in such an issue as well as show both the frustrations and best ways to deal with patients having these types of issues. (One link wasn't working but I'm going to try to find the article again as it was a good one.)

So if you are not a nurse, then I give you a pass, mshjax. If you are, then I say you need to step back and remember your lessons and why you went into nursing in the first place, as well as take a good look at how you're responding to issues that push your buttons.

Nope not a nurse, and this is the reason I won't be one. YOu have to help yourself first. Too may people out there with real needs that aren't being met yet this type of person gets what he needs for free. Not my cup of tea thankyou. And I am basing my thoughts on what the op stated an not anyting more, lest anyone think that I am a total which, cuase I am not and would give someone the shirt off my back if they needed it. But I worked in a physicians office for 11 years and dealth with this type of thing, so I am a little jaded in the area.

We actually had an employee, 2 kids divorced didn't get one dime of child support for her deadbeat hubby. She refused to stay home an collect welfare and medicaid even though she would qualify and in fact was advised to quit so she could get these things. She couldn't do it, did think it was right. One Christmas she was over heard talking to someone about how it was supposed to get extememly cold and she didn't have any gas, she couldn't afford to get gas to heat her home and get Christmas presents for her kids. I told everyone about her problem and we collected a huge amount of money to give to her. It didn't turn cold and she tried to give up the money back, we told her to keep it, she deserved a break. AGain, she was trying to help hersilf and so I felt very fortunate to be able to pitch in to help. that is the big difference.

 

[eliza61]

I'm asking at what point an adult male is responsible for his own decisions/actions.

He could buy his medications, but he'd have to buy less cigarettes. Or he could buy no medications and buy lots of cigarettes. Or he could buy no cigarettes and actually take care of himself ( not that it's going to happen ) But, if he choses option B, why should the taxpayers decide that he deserves lots of cigarettes AND meds. He's an adult and he's made his choice.

He is responsible for his own decisions. he's purchasing what he wants with the resources available to him.

As a taxpayer we all pay for stuff we don't like. I didn't like funding 2 useless wars but that's exactly where some of my money goes to. thats the cost of living here. We all get to chose how we want to live.

The only control you have is over your life.

P.S here is a great slide show on roughly where tax dollars go to. I think it's about 3 years old but still pretty accurate.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/24033281/?photo=1

42.2 cents of every tax dollar goes to military expenses
22.1 cent of every tax dollar goes to health care
10.2 cent of every tax dollar goes to non military debt
Only 8.7 cent of tax dollar goes to anti poverty expenses.
see the link for the rest.

 

[chloelovesdisney]

I don't think that everyone can just quit. I believe that addiction is worse for some. I don't know if that's the case for this man but I won't judge him either way.

I don't think it's at all easy to quit, I also don't think it's up to the taxpayers to pay for his addiction. He can smoke all he wants to if he can pay his cigarettes himself.

 

[bored]

I don't think it's at all easy to quit, I also don't think it's up to the taxpayers to pay for his addiction. He can smoke all he wants to if he can pay his cigarettes himself.

If we wasn't spending "TAXPAYERS MONEY" than you folks are right do what he wants non of my business. When he's spending my money because he chooses to smoke vs buy meds I'll judge him all I want! If we don't make some changes in the US in the next few years it's gonna get much worse.

 

[eliza61]

I don't think it's at all easy to quit, I also don't think it's up to the taxpayers to pay for his addiction. He can smoke all he wants to if he can pay his cigarettes himself.

He does pay for his cigarettes. Op is upset that he uses the money he has for what she feels is not a necessity while getting his medication for free.

 

[sbell111]

As I stated I quit so anyone can. Sorry but it is the truth. And I believe that anyone deserves compassion, up to a point. There is no way that I can justify in my head giving a man a medication for free that would have only cost him $4.00 and yet he buys cigs.

As I understood the OP, his meds run about ten dollars per day. This doesn't sound like much until you need to buy a thirty or sixty day supply. Then, it gets into real money for the guy. Cigs, on the other hand, can be purchased for as little as $60 per month. (This estimate assumes a pack-a-day smoker buying cheapo cigs via the internet.)

Sorry but no amount of explaining will ever convince me that this is ok. Isn't going to happen. Sounds like we are talking about a man that knows what his conditions are and really would rather spend his money on cigs and then demand his medication for free.

As I recall from the OP, the patient didn't make any such demands. It was the doctor who brought it up and made the decision.

Not in my book, if it were up to me, he wouldn't get it. WE aren't talking about a med that costs a small fortune, I am strictly talking about this particular case.

Whether the med is expensive or not is in the eyes of the guy that has to buy them.

If it were a case of this man had quit smoking and maybe had illnesses due to his smoking, sure I would think that he deserves to get the meds and yes maybe for free if he truly can't afford the meds. But to have a $4..00 drug and he won't buy it but yet he finds the money for cigs. NO WAY.

My brother died of cancer a few years ago. He was a smoker and was DEFINITELY going to quit when the doctor informed him of his cancer. That decision changed when the doctor told him he was terminal. In his mind, there was no point in going through the difficulty of quitting smoking when it wouldn't change anything. Also, from his point of view, smoking had it's benefits. Who was I to argue with him? As much as I tried to talk him into quitting for decades prior, starting that day, his smoking was fine with me.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

There are still things I don't understand about this:

1. If he wasn't smoking, would he still be on Medicare? If so, who is paying that $4 for the prescription? The hospital or the government?

2. What are the suggestions that the hospital does instead of paying that $4? Do they refuse any medical treatment at all? Isn't it cheaper to pay the $4 than to provide treatment after he finally has a heart attack?

I understand it's frustrating to see people like this work the system, but what's the alternative?

 

[Hoodie]

Sadly we have created an entitlement class in this society. It needs a major overhaul, where most people are dropped.

I'd drop this guy for the smoking. I have no issues making it a requirement of Medicaid/Medicare or any gov't assitance to be drug free, including cigarettes.

 

[eliza61]

Sadly we have created an entitlement class in this society. It needs a major overhaul, where most people are dropped.

I'd drop this guy for the smoking. I have no issues making it a requirement of Medicaid/Medicare or any gov't assitance to be drug free, including cigarettes.

So then you would deny him medical care because he's not drug free? interesting. Doesn't that open up all types of ethical questions? who gets to decide? do we pay for the old guy who is 85 but wants a heart transplant even though statistically he has a short life span?

What about the boozer who needs a liver transplant but is on medicaid? Does he not get it because you think he shouldn't be drinking in the first place?

And all these dropped people? Do they magically disappear and never get sick again? or do they have to pass a test where they only get treatment and services if they sign some morality clause to live they way we deem is acceptable?

Heck why not add all types of requirements? can't be overweight, can't have bad breath, can't be old, can't be Jewish? yes, I'm being extreme but when you start down the slippery slope of trying to regulate morality and life style 9/10 it leads to gross abuse and discrimination.

If we are going to run around screaming, FREEDOM, FREEDOM, FREEDOM at the top of our lungs while wrapped in a flag, that means everyone one gets to make personal choices. even the ones we abhor.

I doubt very seriously that a guy who can't afford 10 meds is rolling around town in a limo feeling real entitled.