At the world now, went to DVC tour today, didnt buy here is why

[clarkinstlouis]

Can someone convince me I am crazy for not buying?

$120/point for Bay View. I am looking for around 250ish points. I am a complete noob at this timeshare thing. They were offering a 10% discount on purchase price and a years points for this year before march of next year when you get 2011 points.

I just dont understand why I wouldnt buy secondary market. I may not understand all this, I like the idea and I like the flexibility, but I think the price is too steep for the current market

they wouldnt even talk about anything than Bay View, wouldnt show me numbers on Animal kingdom or sarasota

Any and all advice welcome. Here until Saturday

Thanks

 

[Brandis]

No need to rush things, I would first compare what's available on the resale market and also learn all you can about how DVC works etc.

Also, if you live in the US, I think you can buy pretty much anytime you want, especially resale. If you live outside the US, like me, Disney will only work with you while you are there, but resale still should be possible. So no need to rush things.

 

[Havana]

I agree with the PP, this isn't a purchase to rush. It took us about 9 months to think it through, gather as much information as we could and run many number models.

 

[jsivigny]

I was just at WDW for 10 Days in September and stayed at Bay Lake Tower. Great place. I sat through a DVC review and had no prior timeshare experience. I liked what I heard about DVC, given I have a family of 4 and want to stay in larger villa style rooms. However, the prices seemed high, given the current economic downturn, especially in Real Estate Market. After leaving WDW, I did some searching and found a couple of sites selling DVC timeshares. Although you can't get much of a discount at BLT on Resale, you can find some good values at other resorts. Unless you REALLY love a certain resort, I found buying resale to be the most economical approach. My advice would be to take it slow, read these boards and don't buy on impulse. To me, DVC looks great and I'm currently waiting to hear back on the ROFR for a 285 point purchase at SSR (hope I pass), at a discount over new WDW prices. If you do choose to buy new, you still can even after you leave WDW. They'll call you back with incentives. That was my experience, hope it helps. BTW...this is only my second post and I am a "newbie", I was like you just last month and knew nothing about DVC. I recommend reading other threads on this board, as it's outstanding. Some very knowledgeable folks here.

 

[mac_tlc]

The OP did the right thing. No need to rush, especially given the current resale market. It is a major investment for most so take your time and learn as much as you can.

mac_tlc

 

[JimMIA]

Can someone convince me I am crazy for not buying?

$120/point for Bay View. I am looking for around 250ish points. I am a complete noob at this timeshare thing. They were offering a 10% discount on purchase price and a years points for this year before march of next year when you get 2011 points.

First of all, congratulations on not falling for the "weasel-speak!"

The offer of "...a years points" is a scam.

They are offering you a March Use Year. Use Year means the points can be used from the begining of March until the last day of February the following year. Currently that contract is in it's March 2010 UY and the points they are "giving you" are really simply the points you are paying for, and 2/3 of their useful life has already gone by. They're not giving you a thing; they're selling you a used car at a new car price!

In addition, you will be paying dues on those points between your closing and December 31. There's nothing sneaky about that; it's the proper way to apportion dues, but it will be an expenditure of +/- $150 for which you will receive absolutely nothing if you don't visit again prior to Dec 31, 2010.

March 2010 points have to be banked by the end of October or they expire on Feb 28, 2011. I assume they offered you an extension of that banking deadline so that those points would have some value to you. If not, those points will have zero value to you unless you use them by Feb 28, 2011. Even with the banking extension, those points have nothing like the value of a full year's points that you could use or bank as your needs dictate.

You're looking at an expenditure of approximately $27,000, so I would take your time, do your research, and make a careful decision away from the pixie-dust environment you are in right now.

For example, you mentioned Saratoga Springs, saying they wouldn't even discuss SSR with you. You can buy 250 SSR points RESALE for about $10,000 LESS than the direct BLT price...and you can buy Old Key West for less than that and own at a resort with the largest villas and the lowest points cost per night.

There are numerous contracts on the resale market for both of those resorts, so you should have no problem finding a size and UY that fits your needs.

Take your time...do your homework. Good luck!

 

[backyardponder]

To the OP: You are there until Saturday. Take some time to visit the other DVC resorts so, if you decide to buy resale, you know where you want to buy. Stop at the front desk and ask for a resort map. Also ask for a recommended route to view the resort.

John

 

[clarkinstlouis]

Thanks everyone. We dont want to rush this but we do want to become a member, just what is the best way.

Funny thing, they never mentioned anything about a time limit to "bank" points, and one of my issues was with the "free" points was that you had to use them so quickly. didnt know I had to use them or not use them or at least decide what I wanted to do by the end of the month!!!!!

I will be reading and learning but I know I will become a member within the next few months. What a great christmas present for the family!!

 

[clarkinstlouis]

"March 2010 points have to be banked by the end of October or they expire on Feb 28, 2011. I assume they offered you an extension of that banking deadline so that those points would have some value to you. If not, those points will have zero value to you unless you use them by Feb 28, 2011. Even with the banking extension, those points have nothing like the value of a full year's points that you could use or bank as your needs dictate."

This is news to me like I said. I just asked the wife and no one mentioned anything about timeline to bank. We asked if there was any extention on those bonus points and were told no.

More more question, if you buy resale does Disney treat you differant or is it more difficult to use?

 

[JimMIA]

This is news to me like I said. I just asked the wife and no one mentioned anything about timeline to bank. We asked if there was any extention on those bonus points and were told no.

IF that's true, the 2010 points (which you are paying full price for) are worthless unless you plan another trip prior to the end of Feb 2011. Plus, as I said above, you'd be paying about $150 for the Nov & Dec dues on those points.

I'd be surprised if that's the case, though. You have absolutely zero ability to bank those points -- you'd have to buy, close, and bank by this Sunday and that's not happening. They normally offer an extension and do everything they can to convince you that you're getting something for nothing. You're not.

More more question, if you buy resale does Disney treat you differant or is it more difficult to use?

No...with a caveat.

Since the start of DVC, there never has been any difference in ownership between resale points and points purchased directly from Disney. However, whenever you are buying any timeshare, it's important to understand the fine print...most of which you aren't even provided until after you've purchased!

In truth, with DVC we are only really guaranteed two things (somebody add to the list if I miss anything).

1. We are guaranteed to be allowed to use our points at our home resort (subject to availability, of course) for the life of the contract.
2. We are guaranteed is that as long as Disney allows the use of DVC points at non-home resorts (a core selling point of DVC and something that should never go away), we will receive at least a one-month booking advantage over non-home guests. Since the inception of DVC, that advantage has been four months (11 vs. 7).

So...could DVC change things down the road? Yes, theoretically they could change pretty much anything. In fact, they change perks of DVC all the time. But, so far, they have left the main components of DVC the same.

It's possible DVC could create some difference between direct and resale points, but they have to be very careful what and how they change things. For example, I think it's a no-brainer that they will not change our ability to book at non-home resorts. Why? Because a) it's a critically-important sales tool for them that we can use our points anywhere in the DVC system, and b) it is also critical to maintaining the high occupancy levels they need. Timeshares are designed to operate at close to 100% occupancy, and if they drop much below that, the whole financial equation changes (for the owners, not DVC itself).

Another problem they will have is that thousands of DVC owners (us included) own contracts purchased resale and contracts purchased direct. How do you handle those owners? The logical approach to any distinctions they might make between resale and direct would be to grandfather all existing owners and implement any changes from a certain date forward.

 

[kwdw]

Hey - I am also looking at buying BLT (in Nov.). I was told very specifically last night that I can use some of the UY March 2010 at the time of purchase (for booking whenever I want in the future) and then bank the rest. I think that's allowed right now on a purchase direct from Disney - even though it will be past the Oct. 31st deadline. I'd double check with your sales person.

 

[JimMIA]

Hey - I am also looking at buying BLT (in Nov.). I was told very specifically last night that I can use some of the UY March 2010 at the time of purchase (for booking whenever I want in the future) and then bank the rest. I think that's allowed right now on a purchase direct from Disney - even though it will be past the Oct. 31st deadline. I'd double check with your sales person.

I think this is probably correct, as I said above. This is the usual sales gimmick they use to partially outweigh the fact that you're buying points that are essentially worthless.

There is some legitimate value to the banking extension, but I don't know any rational way to value it. DVC timeshare salespersons will sometimes say the value is $10 per point because that's sort of a typical rental price, but that's a nonsensical value that assumes you paid zero for the points (which is not true) and are willing to do the work and take the risk of renting the points. It also assumes that you will be successful in renting 100% of the points and will have no issues at all...which is not realistic. Not many of us are willing to do that, so that's a bogus value, IMHO.

The relevant question to me is whether that banking extension outweighs the huge savings of resale.

To me, it would not. Even comparing apples to apples (BLT to BLT), you're talking about $108 per point direct vs +/-$92 per point resale...which for OP's 250 points, would be a difference of +/- $4,000. If you don't have to have BLT, the potential resale savings are off the chart.

 

[Coach81]

Agree.. I would check resale.. research.. then make the best educated decision I could.

 

[disneynutz]

It's possible DVC could create some difference between direct and resale points, but they have to be very careful what and how they change things. For example, I think it's a no-brainer that they will not change our ability to book at non-home resorts. Why? Because a) it's a critically-important sales tool for them that we can use our points anywhere in the DVC system, and b) it is also critical to maintaining the high occupancy levels they need. Timeshares are designed to operate at close to 100% occupancy, and if they drop much below that, the whole financial equation changes (for the owners, not DVC itself).

Another problem they will have is that thousands of DVC owners (us included) own contracts purchased resale and contracts purchased direct. How do you handle those owners? The logical approach to any distinctions they might make between resale and direct would be to grandfather all existing owners and implement any changes from a certain date forward.

Nothing that DVD does would surprise me. 90% of todays DVC buyers don't know what they are buying so changing the rules won't really hurt sales.

Existing members who understand the system may get upset but I don't think that Disney really cares. What choice do we have, sell our points at a loss to someone else, or pay dues and never use our points?

Disney's actions speak louder than words. Recent changes to policies and rules may seem small and insignificant but together they add up.

My biggest disappointment is the way that DVC members are treated after the sale because there isn't an incentive for Disney to keep members happy. On more than one occasion, we have been told that we were being moved to another room due to maintenance or cleaning issues, then told that they didn't realize that we were staying on points, so they can't move us. Maybe they should have kept extra rooms in reserve as spares and not turned them over to CRO! Another answer would be not have as many maintenance and cleaning issues in the first place.

If members are truly valued by Disney, you would think that they wouldn't take 10 months to send out the planning guide and that they would publish the locations and/or times for the Merry Mixer and Members Meeting several months in advance, not 30 days or less. They don't seem to have these issues when sending out sales info.

Bill

 

[Disneypubgal]

To the OP: You are there until Saturday. Take some time to visit the other DVC resorts so, if you decide to buy resale, you know where you want to buy. Stop at the front desk and ask for a resort map. Also ask for a recommended route to view the resort.

John

Couldn't agree with this more!!

 

[RMBittner]

Can someone convince me I am crazy for not buying?

$120/point for Bay View. I am looking for around 250ish points. I am a complete noob at this timeshare thing. They were offering a 10% discount on purchase price and a years points for this year before march of next year when you get 2011 points.

I just dont understand why I wouldnt buy secondary market. I may not understand all this, I like the idea and I like the flexibility, but I think the price is too steep for the current market

they wouldnt even talk about anything than Bay View, wouldnt show me numbers on Animal kingdom or sarasota

Any and all advice welcome. Here until Saturday

Thanks

Well, you're clearly not crazy! But I'll disclose that I didn't even know a secondary market existed when I became a DVC member about two weeks ago. We heard about DVC while on our second Adventures by Disney trip, where we were the only nonmembers in a group of about 40. We got a lot of great information from our fellow travelers and just decided that, given our own vacation habits and finances, it made sense to join up as soon as possible.

So... we bought 320 points at BLT, full Disney price. I'm certainly not unhappy about it; it seemed a fair price for us, given what we get in return. But...we also weren't aware that there were any other options. Frankly, for us, the ease of working directly with Disney and not having to do tons of independent research and paperwork -- when what we actually want to do is visit WDW and Concierge Collection options in NY and Europe -- made it a good decision for us.

But that's just us. You'll almost always be able to find *anything* you want to buy at a cheaper price, if you're willing to spend the time and trouble to track down the deals and cover all the bases. Sometimes, I'm fine with that (say, when buying electronics or cars). But sometimes it's nice to just make a couple of phone calls and pay for a trouble-free experience.

That said, the information you receive from Disney pre-purchase is very thorough -- you just have to read it all (and it's not always logically delivered in the printed material). We went back to our rep several times with questions before we were ready to pull the trigger.

Bob

 

[kt_mom]

Can someone convince me I am crazy for not buying?

$120/point for Bay View. I am looking for around 250ish points. I am a complete noob at this timeshare thing. They were offering a 10% discount on purchase price and a years points for this year before march of next year when you get 2011 points.

I just dont understand why I wouldnt buy secondary market. I may not understand all this, I like the idea and I like the flexibility, but I think the price is too steep for the current market

they wouldnt even talk about anything than Bay View, wouldnt show me numbers on Animal kingdom or sarasota

Any and all advice welcome. Here until Saturday

Thanks

We just did the tour last week on our trip. Our guide did push BLT but when asked said that he could get us points wherever we wanted. He did discourage us from the other resorts by saying that the dues were higher and that the contracts expired sooner. But I think if we had pushed he would have given us more info on them.

 

[Dean]

It's possible DVC could create some difference between direct and resale points, but they have to be very careful what and how they change things. For example, I think it's a no-brainer that they will not change our ability to book at non-home resorts. Why? Because a) it's a critically-important sales tool for them that we can use our points anywhere in the DVC system, and b) it is also critical to maintaining the high occupancy levels they need. Timeshares are designed to operate at close to 100% occupancy, and if they drop much below that, the whole financial equation changes (for the owners, not DVC itself).

Jim, the rumors and credibility thereof that suggest a change to differentiate resale from retail points are mounting. I have a credible source who's saying the same. That source has suggested that current contracts would be grandfathered and that resale buyers will be limited to direct DVC options only. No way to tell where this will fall until it happens but I think there's enough smoke now to think something will happen along these lines. They could also limit banking, borrowing and transfers as well as institute nickel and dime fees for non qualified contracts. Likely one of the biggest issues for those who own already, is this would likely limit the ability to combine contracts going forward.

 

[SSR]

Jim, the rumors and credibility thereof that suggest a change to differentiate resale from retail points are mounting. I have a credible source who's saying the same. That source has suggested that current contracts would be grandfathered and that resale buyers will be limited to direct DVC options only. No way to tell where this will fall until it happens but I think there's enough smoke now to think something will happen along these lines. They could also limit banking, borrowing and transfers as well as institute nickel and dime fees for non qualified contracts. Likely one of the biggest issues for those who own already, is this would likely limit the ability to combine contracts going forward.

Unfortunately, I agree. This is the only plausible explanation I have for why SSR went to $120/pt. If I was a DVC salesperson, I think I'd be saying the following every sales meeting: "How do you expect us to sell a product when the exact same product is 60-70% cheaper across the street?"

Well, Disney can solve that issue (with no real impact on its bottom line) by creating Tier A and Tier B. Sure, it will cause an administrative headache for them, but they're one of the best logistical companies in the world.

All I know is I'm thankful that I'm already in and (likely/hopefully) grandfathered. Fingers crossed.

 

[JimMIA]

Jim, the rumors and credibility thereof that suggest a change to differentiate resale from retail points are mounting. I have a credible source who's saying the same.

My main point in that post was to try to detail for the OP the very few things that are actually guaranteed to DVC owners.

To your point, with the spread that now exists between resale and direct, it's really hard to justify purchasing anything directly through Disney...unless one is simply a hostage to their financing at high rates (which is another whole topic unto itself). So, unless they turn that spread around, they're going to have to do something to provide some advantage to purchasing direct.

The sign I've been looking for is ROFR activity. If DVC continues to be quiet on the ROFR front as the new fiscal year unfolds, that would indicate to me that they are going to try some other method of encouraging direct sales other than the perceived "comfort" of purchasing from Disney...which ain't worth paying DOUBLE! I don't have any reliable sources, but I think they have to do something to make direct purchases more attractive.

The logical method of providing some advantage to direct purchases would be to create some kind of qualified/non-qualified difference.

That source has suggested that current contracts would be grandfathered and that resale buyers will be limited to direct DVC options only. No way to tell where this will fall until it happens but I think there's enough smoke now to think something will happen along these lines. They could also limit banking, borrowing and transfers as well as institute nickel and dime fees for non qualified contracts. Likely one of the biggest issues for those who own already, is this would likely limit the ability to combine contracts going forward.

Losing all of the non-DVC options wouldn't matter to me, because I bought DVC for DVC and I know that's where the real value of DVC is. If I were a new prospective buyer facing that qualified/non-qualified question -- and I DID MY RESEARCH -- I'd still buy resale because I know I'd be getting the real value of DVC without the inflated prices. I'd rather pay cash for the extra stuff, or go buy Wyndham or some other good timeshare for $1 on eBay.