Are you a creationist?

[Momvic5]

To be complete we would need every organism ever. A scientific theory is based on empirical evidence, otherwise known as facts, and it's the best we got. There is more to learn, but what we have yet to learn is the specifics of how evolution works, it is well established that evolution is the reality. If your argument were true, for any of us to accept the theory of gravity we would need to test every single square centimeter of the universe, but that doesn't stop the fact that when you drop something, it falls.

Let me put it another way, the fact is that organisms change and become other species, the theory of evolution explains how.

The fact that organisms change and become other species doesn't prove the idea that the world as we know it today is a result of evolution. To be complete, the observable facts or data would need to explain the missing links. The missing links are observable facts too, and they render strong evidence against the idea of evolution as the beginning of the world. All the evidence in the world for evolution does not outweigh or erase the missing links. "More to learn" and "the best we got" is not enough to claim evolution as "the reality" of the history of the world and its beginning.

 

[freckles and boo]

The fact that organisms change and become other species doesn't prove the idea that the world as we know it today is a result of evolution. To be complete, the observable facts or data would need to explain the missing links. The missing links are observable facts too, and they render strong evidence against the idea of evolution as the beginning of the world. All the evidence in the world for evolution does not outweigh or erase the missing links. "More to learn" and "the best we got" is not enough to claim evolution as "the reality" of the history of the world and its beginning.

So, because we are missing some pieces of the puzzle, the picture that is clearly emerging must be dismissed? Instead we are to trust a lovely creation story found in mulitple ancient cultures that is obviously allegorical, oft interpreted, reinterpreted, translated, retranslated, edited, and manipulated to serve the purpose of the early church?

 

[Pooh Girl 71]

I'm an other. I believe God created but he used evolution as a means.

I agree with this.

 

[TnTsParty]

If we truly evolved from other things how come we havent evolved to something else by now?

 

[Disney Doll]

Another atheist here voting no.

But at the same time, I have no interest in mocking those who believe differently than I:

Pigeon does that a lot on threads.
Some "issues" there with religion I think.
But certainly everyone has a right to their opinion, even if it is a mocking one.

 

[Momvic5]

So, because we are missing some pieces of the puzzle, the picture that is clearly emerging must be dismissed? Instead we are to trust a lovely creation story found in mulitple ancient cultures that is obviously allegorical, oft interpreted, reinterpreted, translated, retranslated, edited, and manipulated to serve the purpose of the early church?

You can trust what you want to. The fact is the missing links can not be dismissed. The missing pieces make your "puzzle" complete. The missing pieces are observable facts against the idea the evolution no matter how you put it. The missing pieces distort your emerging picture. The missing pieces are of equal value to the "puzzle" or theory. You can choose to fill in the missing pieces with personal beliefs or human logic, but then the idea of evolution is no longer a science.

 

[freckles and boo]

You can trust what you want to. The fact is the missing links can not be dismissed. The missing pieces make your "puzzle" complete. The missing pieces are observable facts against the idea the evolution no matter how you put it. The missing pieces distort your emerging picture. The missing pieces are of equal value to the "puzzle" or theory. You can choose to fill in the missing pieces with personal beliefs or human logic, but then the idea of evolution is no longer a science.

We will have to either agree to disagree or you will have to accept that I am right. Either way, have a good evening.

 

[raysnkaysmom]

We will have to either agree to disagree or you will have to accept that I am right. Either way, have a good evening.

LOL...I'm not saying which of you I agree with (honestly, because I've skipped the debate aspect and not read them thoroughly)...but it reminds me of a shirt I saw...
"You can agree with me, or you can be wrong"

 

[crcormier]

I believe in a creator, but I believe he created evolution.

 

[Buckalew11]

Yes, I believe God created the world and all that is in it. At VB this week I was digging for sandcrabs and was amazed at how many there were, each a creation of God, (JMHO). Then, thinking of the grains of sand and how the ocean waves never stop, it all made me think of my belief in a God who created it all so perfectly, (JMHO). I am not interested, as some are, in the hows and science of it all--but, I do think science and God go hand in hand. I believe I know the "why".
I do not claim to understand all of it, but I do believe in God the creator. I do believe there were such things as dinosaurs. I also have never met a christian who did not believe in dinosaurs but I'm sure they are out there somewhere.

 

[perla75]

I just wanted to say thank you for all of your posts & explanations. I realize now that I did not know much about creationism & the views of those who believe in this concept. I had heard (on the overdramatic media) that creationists do not believe that dinosaurs ever existed and it prompted me to find out more. Thank you for your clarifications & for sharing your views with me.

 

[Pigeon]

Pigeon does that a lot on threads.
Some "issues" there with religion I think.
But certainly everyone has a right to their opinion, even if it is a mocking one.

Ad hominem attacks, very classy.

I don't have an issue with people subscribing to any particular mythology. What I do have an issue with is when they try to thinly veil their particular religious belief as a pseudoscientific theory in order to have it taught to children in public school.

It is a perfectly valid question to ask--if we are going to pass off Christian creation mythology as science in schools, should we not also teach the mythologies of other cultures and religions? They are every bit as scientifically valid, after all.

 

[Momvic5]

We will have to either agree to disagree or you will have to accept that I am right. Either way, have a good evening.

We will agree to disagree.

You have a good night too.

 

[Nomi]

I do not believe that man has ever witnessed any species 'evolve' into another different species.
I do not necessarily believe that this is a 'fact'.

I do not believe that there is any empirical evidence of this.


PS: from my Websters New Dictionary
empirical : based on observation

Observed instances of speciation: http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-speciation.html

More instances of observed speciation: http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/speciation.html

One common and easily observed instance of evolution is the reason we need new flu shots every year, the flu virus evolves to become resistant to the old vaccine.

Here is another good explanation, it is under the first heading: http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-misconceptions.html

More instances where speciation has been observed: http://wiki.cotch.net/index.php/Observed_speciation

I can produce more links and instances if you need them. Hope this was helpful to clear your misconception!

 

[Nomi]

The fact that organisms change and become other species doesn't prove the idea that the world as we know it today is a result of evolution. To be complete, the observable facts or data would need to explain the missing links. The missing links are observable facts too, and they render strong evidence against the idea of evolution as the beginning of the world. All the evidence in the world for evolution does not outweigh or erase the missing links. "More to learn" and "the best we got" is not enough to claim evolution as "the reality" of the history of the world and its beginning.

The very concept of 'links' and the idea that they are somehow missing is a fallacy. There are many, more than enough, transitional species found. This article explains it much more eloquently than I could at this point: http://evolution-101.blogspot.com/2006/05/what-are-transitional-species.html

 

[Nomi]

If we truly evolved from other things how come we havent evolved to something else by now?

Really? Are you joking? I hope so, otherwise some serious problems are going on with education!

Evolution happens when a species needs to adapt to a changing environment, in that the organisms with the changes to survive are better able to pass on their genetic codes. Humans are at the point of controlling and maintaining their environment, suiting it to them instead of the other way around, so there is no evolution. That said, people are losing their teeth (less instances of wisdom teeth overall) and their toes (well, smaller toes) because we don't need them any more, what with cooking our food and using shoes.

 

[pr surfer]

No. I find creation myths fascinating and sometimes beautiful. But like most myths, they are stories people devised to answer the "unknown".

agreed.

 

[Planogirl]

If you believe in a supreme creator, why is it such a leap that said creator used evolution? I don't see why the two can't work together in harmony.

 

[Uncle Remus]

Ad hominem attacks, very classy.

I don't have an issue with people subscribing to any particular mythology. What I do have an issue with is when they try to thinly veil their particular religious belief as a pseudoscientific theory in order to have it taught to children in public school.

It is a perfectly valid question to ask--if we are going to pass off Christian creation mythology as science in schools, should we not also teach the mythologies of other cultures and religions? They are every bit as scientifically valid, after all.

Well said!!

Observed instances of speciation: http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-speciation.html

More instances of observed speciation: http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/speciation.html

One common and easily observed instance of evolution is the reason we need new flu shots every year, the flu virus evolves to become resistant to the old vaccine.

Here is another good explanation, it is under the first heading: http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-misconceptions.html

More instances where speciation has been observed: http://wiki.cotch.net/index.php/Observed_speciation

I can produce more links and instances if you need them. Hope this was helpful to clear your misconception!

Thanks for the great links.

 

[bicker]

Creationism is put forward as defense for the assertion that the Christian Bible is gospel. What is interesting is that this is often done in a manner as to call into question the knowledge we do have regarding evolution and even basic physics. However, the foundation for creationism itself would not stand up to even a portion of that type of scrutiny. The variety of creation stories, itself, belie the assertion that any of them assert the truth. The value of them as parables isn't of issue; just their standing as foundation for the assertion of authority of specific "priests, gurus or scriptures".