Anyone watch "The Cove"

[KBF]

The whale that is going to Seaworld had beached itself in January of 2004 as a calf when it was separated from its mother. I dont understand what these recent purposeful strandings of Pilot whales in 2010 have anything to do with Seaworld since they DID NOT recieve a permit for these whales. The whale they got was rescued out of a marine life park in Japan. They are taking it out of an abysmal condition in that marine park and caring for it the right way in San Diego. The whale was not driven to the shore by fisherman. It stranded itself in 2004. Therefore its a rescue. Seaworld has NOTHING to do with drive fisheries.

And about "THE COVE". The movie is a farce and total lie. The creator of the movie has his own personal agenda against marine life parks due to the fact that he was fired from one back in the 1970s. It was proven in the past that he had lied about "A dolphin committing suicide in his arms" the dolphin was found to have an infection and that was its cause of death. Not suicide. For supporters of the cove, where is the money made from the movie going? To animal rescues? Nope. To his pockets. All to benefit him. What he is doing in Japan is 100% illegal in that country. Him cutting holes in the nets so the dolphins escape would be like you going to a cattle ranch here and tearing down the walls of the barn so all the cows escape. Its illegal. And he says its to save the dolphins. I question him on that. Its more for publicity in my opinion. Its more for the money for him. He does nothing as far as research, conservation and rehabilitation which are the three things that the profits made by Seaworld go to. All he does is illegally tear down some nets and profit off of the movie he makes showing him doing this which gives him money and makes him look like a hero.

Now is the dolphin slaughter in Japan wrong? In my opinion, yes it is. Its morally and ethically wrong. But thats MY OPINION. Who am I or who are we to tell people in Japan what they can and can not do? They have been doing these drive fisheries for hundreds of years. Its a source of food and a source of their income. Its a way of their life. Who are we to demand them to change that? Cows are sacred in India, but I dont see anyone from India coming here and "Freeing the Cows" from slaughterhouses. You know people in other countries eat dogs and cats right? The same dogs and cats that we keep as pets and companions, they eat as food. Why dont we tell them to stop doing that? Is it wrong? In my opinion yes, plus its gross to me. But its something they have been doing for hundreds if not thousands of years. So I dont think we have the right to tell them not to eat dogs or cats. The same way we dont have the right to tell people of Japan how to make their living.

 

[MoneyNeverSleeps]

The whale that is going to Seaworld had beached itself in January of 2004 as a calf when it was separated from its mother. I dont understand what these recent purposeful strandings of Pilot whales in 2010 have anything to do with Seaworld since they DID NOT recieve a permit for these whales. The whale they got was rescued out of a marine life park in Japan. They are taking it out of an abysmal condition in that marine park and caring for it the right way in San Diego. The whale was not driven to the shore by fisherman. It stranded itself in 2004. Therefore its a rescue. Seaworld has NOTHING to do with drive fisheries.

And about "THE COVE". The movie is a farce and total lie. The creator of the movie has his own personal agenda against marine life parks due to the fact that he was fired from one back in the 1970s. It was proven in the past that he had lied about "A dolphin committing suicide in his arms" the dolphin was found to have an infection and that was its cause of death. Not suicide. For supporters of the cove, where is the money made from the movie going? To animal rescues? Nope. To his pockets. All to benefit him. What he is doing in Japan is 100% illegal in that country. Him cutting holes in the nets so the dolphins escape would be like you going to a cattle ranch here and tearing down the walls of the barn so all the cows escape. Its illegal. And he says its to save the dolphins. I question him on that. Its more for publicity in my opinion. Its more for the money for him. He does nothing as far as research, conservation and rehabilitation which are the three things that the profits made by Seaworld go to. All he does is illegally tear down some nets and profit off of the movie he makes showing him doing this which gives him money and makes him look like a hero.

Now is the dolphin slaughter in Japan wrong? In my opinion, yes it is. Its morally and ethically wrong. But thats MY OPINION. Who am I or who are we to tell people in Japan what they can and can not do? They have been doing these drive fisheries for hundreds of years. Its a source of food and a source of their income. Its a way of their life. Who are we to demand them to change that? Cows are sacred in India, but I dont see anyone from India coming here and "Freeing the Cows" from slaughterhouses. You know people in other countries eat dogs and cats right? The same dogs and cats that we keep as pets and companions, they eat as food. Why dont we tell them to stop doing that? Is it wrong? In my opinion yes, plus its gross to me. But its something they have been doing for hundreds if not thousands of years. So I dont think we have the right to tell them not to eat dogs or cats. The same way we dont have the right to tell people of Japan how to make their living.

Probably one of the silliest posts I have read in a long time on the Dis. Congrats

Just because a country has had a practice for hundreds of years doesn't make it right. Society evolves. Codes of ethics change.

 

[KBF]

Probably one of the silliest posts I have read in a long time on the Dis. Congrats

Just because a country has had a practice for hundreds of years doesn't make it right. Society evolves. Codes of ethics change.

What you said has got to be one of the most stupid posts I have ever read on this board. So congrats to you.

Its right in their eyes. Its their way of life. Its their means of food and their means of income. Who are you to dictate what other people do? Who died and made you god of the universe? And how is it affecting your life personally?

So if society evolves, then lets go into the rain forests and find tribes who have no knowledge and understanding of current world. They only know what has been passed down to them for thousands of years. Lets throw them on a job and make them contribute something to society. Enough of their primitive ways. Time to join the rest of the world. Time to join 2010. Shows how selfish you are and how ignorant you are of other societies and cultures.

 

[MoneyNeverSleeps]

What you said has got to be one of the most stupid posts I have ever read on this board. So congrats to you.

Its right in their eyes. Its their way of life. Its their means of food and their means of income. Who are you to dictate what other people do? Who died and made you god of the universe? And how is it affecting your life personally?

So if society evolves, then lets go into the rain forests and find tribes who have no knowledge and understanding of current world. They only know what has been passed down to them for thousands of years. Lets throw them on a job and make them contribute something to society. Enough of their primitive ways. Time to join the rest of the world. Time to join 2010. Shows how selfish you are and how ignorant you are of other societies and cultures.

Why should dolphins and whales have to suffer because a country feels they can do whatever they want? Who made that country God of the Universe? You're logic is backwards and incredibly naive and flawed.

 

[KBF]

Why should dolphins and whales have to suffer because a country feels they can do whatever they want? Who made that country God of the Universe? You're logic is backwards and incredibly naive and flawed.

So explain why its any different than slaughtering a cow or chicken here in the U.S? Just because they are more "intelligent" than a cow or chicken? Because they are "cute" when a cow or chicken really aren't cute?

Like I said in my post, I'm against the slaughter too. I just don't think we have a right to go in and tell other people how to live their life especially when its something they have been doing for hundreds of years. And when its their means of making a living for themselves. And especially when the way Ric O Barry goes about rescuing dolphins in Japan is illegal in their country.

Totally unrelated topic, but what if Muslims decided that they were going to demand women in America to change the way they dress and make them wear Burkas, even though some women aren't Muslim. Would it be ok to force their beliefs on us even if the majority of the population disagrees with it? After all, woman have never had to cover their bodies completely for the 200+ years that America has been a country. But its what Muslims believe is right when people of other religions don't think so. Is it right for a group of people to force their beliefs on another group of people?

I think the world has a tough time accepting the fact that everyone is different and nobody and no culture is the same. And there is an attitude of "if your not like me and like and support what I like then we have a problem" I'm sorry the dolphins in Japan suffer. Alot of animals suffer in this world at the expense of humans. But what makes one animal superior over another animal? Like a dolphin over a chicken. Unless your a full out animal rights activist and you don't eat meat etc. Then I can understand why you think the way you do. But if your opinion was swayed because of a stupid movie, then you need to get out and realize the world is different. And people are different from you and have different beliefs than you. Whether these beliefs come at the cost of an animal or not.

 

[MoneyNeverSleeps]

So explain why its any different than slaughtering a cow or chicken here in the U.S? Just because they are more "intelligent" than a cow or chicken? Because they are "cute" when a cow or chicken really aren't cute?

Like I said in my post, I'm against the slaughter too. I just don't think we have a right to go in and tell other people how to live their life especially when its something they have been doing for hundreds of years. And when its their means of making a living for themselves. And especially when the way Ric O Barry goes about rescuing dolphins in Japan is illegal in their country.

Totally unrelated topic, but what if Muslims decided that they were going to demand women in America to change the way they dress and make them wear Burkas, even though some women aren't Muslim. Would it be ok to force their beliefs on us even if the majority of the population disagrees with it? After all, woman have never had to cover their bodies completely for the 200+ years that America has been a country. But its what Muslims believe is right when people of other religions don't think so. Is it right for a group of people to force their beliefs on another group of people?

I think the world has a tough time accepting the fact that everyone is different and nobody and no culture is the same. And there is an attitude of "if your not like me and like and support what I like then we have a problem" I'm sorry the dolphins in Japan suffer. Alot of animals suffer in this world at the expense of humans. But what makes one animal superior over another animal? Like a dolphin over a chicken. Unless your a full out animal rights activist and you don't eat meat etc. Then I can understand why you think the way you do. But if your opinion was swayed because of a stupid movie, then you need to get out and realize the world is different. And people are different from you and have different beliefs than you. Whether these beliefs come at the cost of an animal or not.

The movie didn't sway my mind. I've been against dolphin and whale captivity for a long time.

But by your logic, it was wrong for the civilized world to go into Germany and tell Hitler to stop killing Jewish people. Who were we to interfere in that country's behavior right?

And before anyone gets their panties in a bunch, no I am NOT comparing the Holocaust to dolphin killing.

 

[KBF]

The movie didn't sway my mind. I've been against dolphin and whale captivity for a long time.

But by your logic, it was wrong for the civilized world to go into Germany and tell Hitler to stop killing Jewish people. Who were we to interfere in that country's behavior right?

And before anyone gets their panties in a bunch, no I am NOT comparing the Holocaust to dolphin killing.

You have a good point. However I dont think actions that are done to humans can compare to actions being done to animals. There is a difference between killing humans and killing a dolphin.

 

[MoneyNeverSleeps]

You have a good point. However I dont think actions that are done to humans can compare to actions being done to animals. There is a difference between killing humans and killing a dolphin.

My point is that when a country is wrong, clearly wrong, it is prudent that the rest of the world put a stop to that destructive behavior. I believe that dolphin massacres fall into that category. If you don't that's fine, but nobody is gong to convince me otherwise. I know what's right and what's wrong.

 

[julieannbabe]

Question, though, for ChicagoFitnessClub, DisneyRockstar and julieannbabe -- and I ask you three specifically, because you are so outspoken and vehement about your positions. You talk a great game and yell at a lot of people, but seldom note anything positive (other than not buying tickets to SeaWorld) that one can do to improve the situation.

The question ... what do you do to help stop this situation that you so vehemently rail against? I ask because there are people I know who have seen The Cove who are now spurred to action, but they have no idea where best to focus their efforts. Do you donate money? Do you attend rallies? Do you write to government agencies? Do you organize protests?

I'm not looking for a general, "Look on the internet -- there's plenty of stuff" or "stop going to SeaWorld". I'm looking for those things that those of you who are knowledgeable and passionate about the cause are actually doing -- those things with which you have experience -- so that I can pass along those examples to others of reputable organizations or activities that will help. No one wants to focus their efforts on a cause only to find out that their money is being misused or their time is supporting a one-sided vendetta. So I ask those of you who seem to have experience. It's one thing to argue on a message board, but what have you actually found out there in the real world to help?

Thanks for any insight.

i have donated money to a charity for rescuing dolphins. let me know if you want the details. i have written to seaworld about captivity issues. i have written to the fisheries in japan about the slaughter and the japanese government.
(no reply from either)

i was thinking of taking two weeks holiday next year and going out to volunteer to watch over 'the cove' - but i think that i am not strong enough and would fine it too upsetting.
still debating it though.

i know you don't want to hear it - but for me not buying a ticket to watch whales/dolphins in captivity is the biggest thing i can do to make my voice heard that i am against captivity.

 

[DCLMan]

The Japenese hunt whales and are condemned for it. But closer to home the same thing happens in Europe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grindadr%C3%A1p

 

[julieannbabe]

The Japenese hunt whales and are condemned for it. But closer to home the same thing happens in Europe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grindadr%C3%A1p

i remember watching that about the faeroe islands while i was at school back in 1993 - broke my heart.

all in the name of tradition?

terrible. terrible. terrible.

People i think are still trying to stop it

http://www.seashepherd.org/whales/danish-faeroe-islands.html

 

[WDSearcher]

i have donated money to a charity for rescuing dolphins. let me know if you want the details. i have written to seaworld about captivity issues. i have written to the fisheries in japan about the slaughter and the japanese government.
(no reply from either)

i was thinking of taking two weeks holiday next year and going out to volunteer to watch over 'the cove' - but i think that i am not strong enough and would fine it too upsetting.
still debating it though.

i know you don't want to hear it - but for me not buying a ticket to watch whales/dolphins in captivity is the biggest thing i can do to make my voice heard that i am against captivity.

Thanks for the response. I will pass along the info and get back with you if anyone needs / wants more details.

Although I will say that "not buying a ticket to watch whales/dolphins in captivity" is only a major statement if (a) SeaWorld knows about it (which, from your post, it appears that they do) and (b) you would normally have bought one, but have changed your mind. For a lot of people (my friends included), not buying a ticket to SeaWorld would mean nothing, because they don't go to theme parks anyway. They have never been to a SeaWorld or Disney or Six Flags or Cedar Fair theme park, and likely never will, so saying "I protest the capturing of dolphins by not buying a ticket to SeaWorld" is hollow, at best. They wouldn't have bought one anyway. It's like giving up something you hate for Lent.

 

[julieannbabe]

Thanks for the response. I will pass along the info and get back with you if anyone needs / wants more details.

Although I will say that "not buying a ticket to watch whales/dolphins in captivity" is only a major statement if (a) SeaWorld knows about it (which, from your post, it appears that they do) and (b) you would normally have bought one, but have changed your mind. For a lot of people (my friends included), not buying a ticket to SeaWorld would mean nothing, because they don't go to theme parks anyway. They have never been to a SeaWorld or Disney or Six Flags or Cedar Fair theme park, and likely never will, so saying "I protest the capturing of dolphins by not buying a ticket to SeaWorld" is hollow, at best. They wouldn't have bought one anyway. It's like giving up something you hate for Lent.

i disagree. if more people decide to stop visiting seaworld that had done in past then sooner or later seaworld will look at the figures and start questioning why.

 

[WDSearcher]

So explain why its any different than slaughtering a cow or chicken here in the U.S? Just because they are more "intelligent" than a cow or chicken? Because they are "cute" when a cow or chicken really aren't cute?

Yeah ... I'll admit that this bothers me too. If the Japanese were rounding up carp and trapping them to send to aquariums in Europe and the US, I somehow doubt there'd be the same outcry. If it were fruit bats instead of chimpanzees that were being trapped and sold to zoos ... again, probably not the same passion wrapped around that cause.

Animals are slaughtered every day in horrible conditions. Puppies are bred in puppy mills. Cats and mice are used for product testing. Dogs and roosters are fought for sport. There are appalling acts all over the animal kingdom.

However ... it's impossible for someone to support every organization they would need to support to save all mistreated animals everywhere, so people make choices. The people here who have chosen to fight against dolphin capture / captivity are not saying that cows and chickens don't matter. They're just saying that they are choosing to put their dollars, their time and their efforts into the dolphin fight because that's the one that touches them most. Others may not care a whit for dolphins, but care deeply for stray and abused dogs or feral cats or endangered species or gator hunting. Some people go a step further and don't care at all about saving animals because there are plenty of humans out there who are homeless and starving and need help.

This is a topic specifically about "The Cove", which kind of makes it specifically about saving dolphins (and, by association, whales). It's not really likely that you'd find a lot of posters here who are passionate about reforming slaughterhouses or ending dog fighting. The people here are here because dolphins are their "thing". They're not condemning all other animals.

 

[WDSearcher]

i disagree. if more people decide to stop visiting seaworld that had done in past then sooner or later seaworld will look at the figures and start questioning why.

I think you're missing my point.

If my friends decide to not visit SeaWorld, it doesn't mean anything because they were never planning to visit anyway. SeaWorld would not have gotten their money either way. And if SeaWorld asked them why, they would say, "we don't like theme parks and never go to them." It has nothing to do with the dolphins. SeaWorld could be a totally benign park that uses only animatronic sea mammals and doesn't capture or contain any animal of any kind and my friends still wouldn't go.

Like I said, it's like giving up something you don't like. Saying to someone, "I'm never eating chocolate again" sounds like a big sacrifice. Unless you don't like chocolate and never ate it to begin with. Then it's just grandstanding.

 

[PaulaSB12]

Im sure they do it with great love and care and plenty of time with them.
I don't think they are been mistreated in any way I think that the work seaworld does is amazing and they care a great deal for them And I will continue to support them.

This tread is about the movie The cove and to me it feels like it is a bash seaworld tread maybe Im miss reading things but that is how I am seeing it

They care for their whales so much that the life span of a killer whale is halfed in captivity. Kalina who died had 5 calves in 25 years (the first when she was 71/2 when in the wild she wouln't have started until she was about 15 NOrmally a female would produce 5 calves in a 40 year life span. These animals life in family pods for life the whole business of breeding and shipping them to strange groups with different dialets is inhuman. Yes you can't release them but that doesn't meen you can't provide them with a cove to swim in (at least they would be out of clhorinated fresh water instead of the salt water they are mean't to be in) stop breeding them and just let them die out naturally instead of forcing them to perform tricks so we idiots can go home and think how much more intgellegent we are to everything else on the planet.

 

[julieannbabe]

I think you're missing my point.

If my friends decide to not visit SeaWorld, it doesn't mean anything because they were never planning to visit anyway. SeaWorld would not have gotten their money either way. And if SeaWorld asked them why, they would say, "we don't like theme parks and never go to them." It has nothing to do with the dolphins. SeaWorld could be a totally benign park that uses only animatronic sea mammals and doesn't capture or contain any animal of any kind and my friends still wouldn't go.

Like I said, it's like giving up something you don't like. Saying to someone, "I'm never eating chocolate again" sounds like a big sacrifice. Unless you don't like chocolate and never ate it to begin with. Then it's just grandstanding.

i don't understand what you are saying. apologies.
if people don't go to theme parks, then people don't go.
i am talking about people who get educated about captivity that choose not to go. or people like myself who have been to seaworld in the past then find out more info about capitivity then decide not to visit again.

 

[julieannbabe]

They care for their whales so much that the life span of a killer whale is halfed in captivity. Kalina who died had 5 calves in 25 years (the first when she was 71/2 when in the wild she wouln't have started until she was about 15 NOrmally a female would produce 5 calves in a 40 year life span. These animals life in family pods for life the whole business of breeding and shipping them to strange groups with different dialets is inhuman. Yes you can't release them but that doesn't meen you can't provide them with a cove to swim in (at least they would be out of clhorinated fresh water instead of the salt water they are mean't to be in) stop breeding them and just let them die out naturally instead of forcing them to perform tricks so we idiots can go home and think how much more intgellegent we are to everything else on the planet.

i don't doubt that SW care for their whales/dolphins, etc but the fact of the matter is these should be in the ocean.

 

[WDSearcher]

i don't understand what you are saying. apologies.
if people don't go to theme parks, then people don't go.
i am talking about people who get educated about captivity that choose not to go. or people like myself who have been to seaworld in the past then find out more info about capitivity then decide not to visit again.

I know. I understand what you're saying. But you had suggested that not buying a ticket to SeaWorld would be something significant that people could do. My comment was simply that it's only significant if those people would have NORMALLY gone to SeaWorld. If they'd never gone before and weren't ever planning to go, then it wasn't really a way to prove the point.

Which was why I was looking for other suggestions.

 

[julieannbabe]

I know. I understand what you're saying. But you had suggested that not buying a ticket to SeaWorld would be something significant that people could do. My comment was simply that it's only significant if those people would have NORMALLY gone to SeaWorld. If they'd never gone before and weren't ever planning to go, then it wasn't really a way to prove the point.

Which was why I was looking for other suggestions.

i see. thanks for clearing it up.