Anyone else watch Dr. Phil today?

[m&m's mom]

I am surprised that there are so many SAHM's represented in this thread and so few WM's.
I can't believe no one has mentioned how wrong the comment someone made a few pages back about if she worked she would be costing another person a job. You've got to be kidding. If you work, you create jobs. It's that simple. I work, make money, pay taxes, spend my money. All that creates jobs for the economy.
My DH has more respect for me because of my professional career as well. He loves telling people about my position and what I do (not that it's THAT great). We actively talk about work and ask each other's opinions. If I was not in the working world I could not do that. He gets excited telling me something he discovered and I enjoy the same.

We seem to have a more equal balanced life as most couples I see as well. We just moved and most women are SAHM's. Their poor husbands are having to work much more to support the whole family. My DH and I are both home by 4 and do things together as an entire family a ton more than the SAHM's around here. They look at us enviously as all 4 of us jump on our bikes and go for a ride at 5 when their DH's don't come home until 7 or so.
I heard a while back a study that men would brag about their wives being SAHM's. Not in my company. The men try to out do each other on their wives accomplishments.
If you are happy being a SAHM - great! More power to you!
Also, don't assume because I work my kids are being raised by someone else and worse yet in a filthy daycare. Talk about stereotypes

 

[totalia]

I know a single mom who really should go to work. They despearately need the money and can barely afford to pay the rent and buy food and are on welfare because otherwise she'd be out on the street. Why is this? She could go to work. Her daughter is 5 years old. But she simply refuses to, instead preferring to stay home to take care of her daughter.

Her daughter, instead of learning what its like to be independant, and strong... instead of having enough food in her belly... instead of learning to understand the real value of things and having new clothing when she needs it... is learning that you can play the system and welfare will pay for you to live.

They have been on welfare since the child was born.

I find this deplorable and disgusting. The mom may want to stay home, but there are priorities that she's ignoring to do it.

Oh and I should mention that she had her daughter at 14 years old.

For the stay at home mom's, I really hope you don't look back on your life after your kids are gone with regret. You gave up everything to take care of them, including yourself. What will you do when they really are gone and moved out of the house?

My mom said that her life felt empty and it was then that she realized she should have done at least some of the things she had wanted. She never regretted my sister and I, but she sure regretted not having filled some of those dreams. It was years before she no longer felt lost after my sister and I left.

See, my mom was as involved as all of you. She was very active in our figure skating lessons (and came to EVERY practice and performance even when I was just coaching Begginners classes for little kids for a couple hours twice a week). She played the music, helped with the sewing of costumes for all the girls in the club, helped with the years carnival, etc. My mom went to all the school meetings and was very active in pretty much everything the school did or needed her to do. Mom had a huge garden in the backyard that she canned and bagged vegetables from so we would have fresh vegetables every day (we ate alot more of those than sweets).

My mom did everything she could for us and more. We had more toys and games than anyone else I ever knew. She wasn't rich but she made sure we didn't know want from her. And she spent time with us every day. From homework to playing those games.

BUT when we were finally gone and grown, she realized what she gave up and she missed it. Her girls were her life but now we weren't there anymore. What could be her life after that? She was lost and depressed because she had given up ALL her dreams to take care of us.

I hope that you don't go through that, I really do.

Just remember that your kids will love you, whether you work or not. Don't give up yourself for them. If you do, you won't love yourself when they are going on with their own lives without you.

And my father.... they used to fight. Alot. They had a bad relationship. One of the reasons (though there were a great many more) is that she expected him to take on the entire burden of taking care of us himself and it was alot for him to do. He had to work more often (usually 10 hours a day or more) to be able to pay for the things because he didn't have her help. He was never able to spend time with us.

Eventually things escalated and he stopped coming home, started going out with the boys every night, etc. When he did come home it would be to a fight because he was by that time, drunk.

They separated when I was 14 and divorced 3 years later.

Imagine my mother's shock when she suddenly had to go to work or risk being out on the street.

To this day, my father is NOT close with his daughters and probably never will be. We don't understand him and we don't like him.

I hope that nothing like this ever happens to you. I really do.

One thing I find very interesting though is that there are no father's in this thread who have a stay at home wife. I'd love to know what their opinion would be without their wife's knowledge that they were here. I can imagine they would be a bit more angry than they let on.

 

[Jenn Lynn]

Originally posted by m&m's mom

We seem to have a more equal balanced life as most couples I see as well. We just moved and most women are SAHM's. Their poor husbands are having to work much more to support the whole family. My DH and I are both home by 4 and do things together as an entire family a ton more than the SAHM's around here. They look at us enviously as all 4 of us jump on our bikes and go for a ride at 5 when their DH's don't come home until 7 or so.
I heard a while back a study that men would brag about their wives being SAHM's. Not in my company. The men try to out do each other on their wives accomplishments.
If you are happy being a SAHM - great! More power to you!
Also, don't assume because I work my kids are being raised by someone else and worse yet in a filthy daycare. Talk about stereotypes

My DH works until 6 MWF because he is a Doctor and that's when the working patients come to see him-when they get off of work at 4 or 5. He doesn't work "a ton more" either. We base our lifestyle on his income which is how it should be.

I'm not envious of others because it's not MY life.

 

[momof2inPA]

Originally posted by m&m's mom
My DH has more respect for me because of my professional career as well."

My husband respects that I made the choice to give up my career and raise my children full time. Does he have MORE respect for me as a SAHM than if I worked? No, he loves and respects me for who I am, period.

"My DH and I are both home by 4 and do things together as an entire family a ton more than the SAHM's around here."

No one I know gets home by four. What do you do? You say you are a professional, what kind?

"I heard a while back a study that men would brag about their wives being SAHM's. Not in my company. The men try to out do each other on their wives accomplishments. "

I know what you mean. The moms I know try to out do each other bragging about their children's accomplishments. I guess it's a matter of focus and priorities.

"If you are happy being a SAHM - great! More power to you!"

Thanks. Why the need to be so competitive? You made your choice. Other people choose differently. Why so bitter?

 

[totalia]

Bitter?

Hmm, from the posts it seems almost like the SAHM are trying to say that the WM made the wrong choice and almost talking down to them for it.

OH and just because a man says that he respects the choice to stay at home, doesn't mean he actually does. Its amazing what people will say to each other to avoid a fight when they love someone.

 

[Jenn Lynn]

Originally posted by totalia
I know a single mom who really should go to work. They despearately need the money and can barely afford to pay the rent and buy food and are on welfare because otherwise she'd be out on the street. Why is this? She could go to work. Her daughter is 5 years old. But she simply refuses to, instead preferring to stay home to take care of her daughter.

Her daughter, instead of learning what its like to be independant, and strong... instead of having enough food in her belly... instead of learning to understand the real value of things and having new clothing when she needs it... is learning that you can play the system and welfare will pay for you to live.

They have been on welfare since the child was born.

I find this deplorable and disgusting. The mom may want to stay home, but there are priorities that she's ignoring to do it.

Oh and I should mention that she had her daughter at 14 years old.

For the stay at home mom's, I really hope you don't look back on your life after your kids are gone with regret. You gave up everything to take care of them, including yourself. What will you do when they really are gone and moved out of the house?

My mom said that her life felt empty and it was then that she realized she should have done at least some of the things she had wanted. She never regretted my sister and I, but she sure regretted not having filled some of those dreams. It was years before she no longer felt lost after my sister and I left.

See, my mom was as involved as all of you. She was very active in our figure skating lessons (and came to EVERY practice and performance even when I was just coaching Begginners classes for little kids for a couple hours twice a week). She played the music, helped with the sewing of costumes for all the girls in the club, helped with the years carnival, etc. My mom went to all the school meetings and was very active in pretty much everything the school did or needed her to do. Mom had a huge garden in the backyard that she canned and bagged vegetables from so we would have fresh vegetables every day (we ate alot more of those than sweets).

My mom did everything she could for us and more. We had more toys and games than anyone else I ever knew. She wasn't rich but she made sure we didn't know want from her. And she spent time with us every day. From homework to playing those games.

BUT when we were finally gone and grown, she realized what she gave up and she missed it. Her girls were her life but now we weren't there anymore. What could be her life after that? She was lost and depressed because she had given up ALL her dreams to take care of us.

I hope that you don't go through that, I really do.

Just remember that your kids will love you, whether you work or not. Don't give up yourself for them. If you do, you won't love yourself when they are going on with their own lives without you.

And it may be a working Mom who doesn't do all of those things. Maybe has to miss some soccer games or those "firsts." And then when her kids are grown she wonders where did the time go? And regrets not spending more time with them because that time can never be gotten back.

Are you going to feel less fullfilled when you retire? After all, it's what you have been doing your whole life. Won't a part of you be lost? I would think it would be natural to feel that way.

And I also think that WM feel empty nest syndrome like SAHM. Even Dad's feel it.

And I also wonder why it cannot be accepted that being a SAHM IS ourself? That we are not giving up ourselves up because this is WHAT WE WANT TO DO. Like you want to go to work everyday. Why is that such a hard concept to grasp? I don't need a job outside the home to help me feel validated as a woman.

 

[Beth76]

Originally posted by totalia
I know a single mom who really should go to work. They despearately need the money and can barely afford to pay the rent and buy food and are on welfare because otherwise she'd be out on the street. Why is this? She could go to work. Her daughter is 5 years old. But she simply refuses to, instead preferring to stay home to take care of her daughter.

Her daughter, instead of learning what its like to be independant, and strong... instead of having enough food in her belly... instead of learning to understand the real value of things and having new clothing when she needs it... is learning that you can play the system and welfare will pay for you to live.



For the stay at home mom's, I really hope you don't look back on your life after your kids are gone with regret. You gave up everything to take care of them, including yourself. What will you do when they really are gone and moved out of the house?

Just remember that your kids will love you, whether you work or not. Don't give up yourself for them. If you do, you won't love yourself when they are going on with their own lives without you.

Are you kidding me? Are you really comparing SAHMs with this woman who refuses to work? We don't stay at home because we're lazy. We stay at home because we choose to. My children are in no danger of learning to depend on the government. My children are in no danger of being hungry.

And NO, I won't look back on my life and regret this decision. I've known all my life that I wanted to stay at home with my children. A career isn't important to me. My family is important to me. I'm not saying that women who work value their careers over their family. They have just made a different choice for themselves. And that's fine.

And just like you said, our kids will love us whether we work or not. Just because we want to raise them full time rather than work full time doesn't mean we're giving up on ourselves. Believe me, I'm going to look back on my life and remember how fortunate I was to be able to stay home and raise my children. I know many other women are not as fortunate.

 

[momof2inPA]

Originally posted by totalia
For the stay at home mom's, I really hope you don't look back on your life after your kids are gone with regret. You gave up everything to take care of them, including yourself. What will you do when they really are gone and moved out of the house?

Child, I have given up nothing compared to what I have gained. Now, I didn't have my kids at 14. I had my first at 30, after having gone to grad school and worked and played and travelled.

It's through years of progress for women that we are able to choose to work or not (if we have enough financial stability). Why look down on someone who chooses differently than you? My choice might not make you happy. Your choice would not make me happy.

And when the kids are gone, my husband and I plan to travel extensively and possibly live abroad. We'll see. Doesn't sound boring or depressing to me.

 

[totalia]

And we don't need to stay at home taking care of the kids to feel validated as a woman.

Though thats an odd word. I never said that you need to feel validated. I said that you need to fulfill your dreams and spend time doing other things besides taking care of your kids and kid related things. You need to do things that are for YOURSELF as a person, not for someone as else. Your kids are NOT going to always be there.

And btw, most of the firsts are within the first year. Maybe its different where you are, but we get a minimum of 6 months (usually a full year) of maternity leave. Missing your kids crawl or walk, etc, just doesn't happen much.

Beth76

The implication that has come out of all of this is that of SAHM patting themselves on the back and looking down on WM because they decided not to stay home. I read this entire thread and that's what I've seen on here.

And yes I am comparing you to her. She chose to do the same thing. She chose to stay home because she wanted to see her daughter grow up. She wanted to be part of her life and raise her child herself instead of having day care do it. Except that she's living on welfare in order to accomplish that.

The only difference between you and her is where the money is coming from.

momof2inPA

Do NOT call me "child." Just because I happen to think a woman should work because its doing something OTHER than taking care of her children and fulfilling other needs besides motherhood, does not make me a child.

I haven't once looked down on you for deciding to stay home. If you think that then you haven't read any of my posts at all.

 

[momof2inPA]

Originally posted by totalia
OH and just because a man says that he respects the choice to stay at home, doesn't mean he actually does. Its amazing what people will say to each other to avoid a fight when they love someone.

It's a mutual decision between adults that love and trust each other, but something tells me that you couldn't grasp that concept.

 

[Beth76]

Originally posted by totalia
Bitter?

Hmm, from the posts it seems almost like the SAHM are trying to say that the WM made the wrong choice and almost talking down to them for it.

OH and just because a man says that he respects the choice to stay at home, doesn't mean he actually does. Its amazing what people will say to each other to avoid a fight when they love someone.

I don't see many SAHMs here putting down WMs. I see them defending themselves from accusations that we are lazy, dependent, unintelligent and incapable of making our own choices.

And who are you to imply that someone's husband is lying to her about how he feels because he supports her decision to stay home. What basis do you have for making such a comment?

 

[tonyswife]

Originally posted by m&m's mom

My DH has more respect for me because of my professional career as well.

Respects you more than what? More than the husband of a SAHM respects his wife? How do you know? If you lost your job, would your DH still respect you? I would certainly hope so. Spouse's should respect eachother for reasons a whole lot deeper than work status, otherwise they probably shouldn't get married. My husband respected me when I was working and he respects me now.

They look at us enviously as all 4 of us jump on our bikes and go for a ride at 5 when their DH's don't come home until 7 or so.

Wow, such ego. They "look" at you enviously? Give me a break, you don't know what the "looks" mean, you just feel very, very smug and superior. Good for you that you love your job and your life. You should. Everyone should, without having to viciously tear down their neighbors in order to do so.

I heard a while back a study that men would brag about their wives being SAHM's. Not in my company. The men try to out do each other on their wives accomplishments.

Maybe they should focus on their own accomplishments instead of trying to "one up" eachother.

If you are happy being a SAHM - great! More power to you!

But according to you, SAHMs don;t have as much respect as you do. nd, their lives are unbalanced. Whatever.

Also, don't assume because I work my kids are being raised by someone else and worse yet in a filthy daycare. Talk about stereotypes

I agree, daycare is not hell on Earth, no one should imply any such thing. Daycare can be an enriching and loving environment for children. On the other hand, in regards to stereotypes and generalizations, people that live in glass houses should not throw stones.

 

[tonyswife]

Originally posted by totalia


OH and just because a man says that he respects the choice to stay at home, doesn't mean he actually does. Its amazing what people will say to each other to avoid a fight when they love someone.

This works in reverse, of course. A family should make choices that fit their own life, regardless of what the bitter and jealous people on the other side say. The "bitter and jealous" comment fits some women on both sides of this debate, BTW.

 

[Jenn Lynn]

Actually I said "I don't need a job outside of the home to feel validated as a woman."

Edit-Ok I didn't understand the way you wrote that line. Took me a minute.

Well, I am glad you don't need to take care of kids to feel validated. I am happy you are happy with your choice. Now can't you accept mine?

I think most women get 6 weeks maternity leave. I don't know first hand since I obviously don't work. But I think 6 months would be highly unusual here.

And where did anyone say we didn't do anything for ourselves? What about the Mom's who say they go work out or have coffee with the girls? I'm sure SAHM have hobbies that don't revolve around their children. I guess I don't know what you think a SAHM needs to do?

In our house when DH come home we are both "home from work" so to speak. He doesn't just sit on the couch while I continue to take care of the DD, make dinner, clean the house, etc. Sometimes he has an activity going on, sometimes I do, sometimes DD does. We balance it out and it works for us.

 

[tonyswife]

Originally posted by totalia

For the stay at home mom's, I really hope you don't look back on your life after your kids are gone with regret. You gave up everything to take care of them, including yourself. What will you do when they really are gone and moved out of the house?

Thanks for your condescending concern. But, I assure you, I did not give up myself.

 

[totalia]

Originally posted by Beth76
I don't see many SAHMs here putting down WMs. I see them defending themselves from accusations that we are lazy, dependent, unintelligent and incapable of making our own choices.

And who are you to imply that someone's husband is lying to her about how he feels because he supports her decision to stay home. What basis do you have for making such a comment?

There have been very few posts from working mom's in this thread. NONE of them said that you are lazy, dependent, unintelligent or incapable of making your own choices. I never said that either.

I did, however, say that it was wrong to forget yourself to take care of your children.

Why is that so hard for you to grasp?

Let me ask you this.... how would you feel in your husbands place? You are expected to work long hours to make enough money to pay all the bills. You can't spend time with the kids because your SO wants to stay home and take care of the children and most of the money and time that you could be spent doing something else goes to working. Then you come home and its either too late to spend time with the children your SO gets to see every single day or they don't know you at all because your never there and so they don't want to spend time with you save for maybe your SO.

So, your husband needs to go to work. While you get to stay home and be part of all these firsts for your child, he gets to see and be part of very little of it.

Perhaps in the beginning he will agree with you. But how would you feel in his place after you've been doing that for years? You got to miss almost everything because you were working while your SO got to be part of it all. You got to miss the first word, when they first crawled, their violin recitals, first football game, and even first boyfriend/girlfriend, because you had to spend your time working in order to make enough money to support them and all their hobby's and needs because your SO thought it better to stay home? How would you feel?

If I were a man, I'd be livid about the inequality of it.

 

[Beth76]

Originally posted by totalia
You need to do things that are for YOURSELF as a person, not for someone as else. Your kids are NOT going to always be there.

Beth76
And yes I am comparing you to her. She chose to do the same thing. She chose to stay home because she wanted to see her daughter grow up. She wanted to be part of her life and raise her child herself instead of having day care do it. Except that she's living on welfare in order to accomplish that.

The only difference between you and her is where the money is coming from.

What do you do that is for yourself, as a person? Your job? Isn't that for your employer?

And I am now completely insulted that you are comparing to me this girl who is on welfare. (This is in no way to slam teen-age or unwed mothers--that's a different topic). I have a college degree. I have a husband. And we waited until we were ready and able to have children. My husband makes enough money to fully support us. If he didn't then I would have to work--and I would.

I don't put you down for making your decision to work. Why would you put down my decision to stay home and compare me to someone on welfare? I'm beginning to suspect that you are either a troll or really bitter that you can not afford the luxury of staying home with your children.

 

[Jenn Lynn]

Uh, DH loves his job and is glad that I am here at home. A happy wife makes a happy Husband.

My DH works 40 hours a week. I would hardly call that "never there." And why would he hardly know the children at all? Frankly if my DH had to work 70 hours just to make ends met I probably would get a job because that would not be fair to him. But he doesn't, so I don't need too. Simple as that!

 

[Beth76]

Originally posted by totalia
I did, however, say that it was wrong to forget yourself to take care of your children.

Why is that so hard for you to grasp?

Why is it so hard for you to grasp that I DO do things for myself. You have no idea what I do in my life.

And you know, I could say that I think it's wrong for you to forget your children to take care of yourself. But, I won't because I don't believe that to be generally true for working moms. I'm sorry that you feel that way about us.

 

[momof2inPA]

Originally posted by totalia
The implication that has come out of all of this is that of SAHM patting themselves on the back and looking down on WM because they decided not to stay home. I read this entire thread and that's what I've seen on here.

And yes I am comparing you to her. She chose to do the same thing. She chose to stay home because she wanted to see her daughter grow up. She wanted to be part of her life and raise her child herself instead of having day care do it. Except that she's living on welfare in order to accomplish that.

The only difference between you and her is where the money is coming from.

momof2inPA

Do NOT call me "child." Just because I happen to think a woman should work because its doing something OTHER than taking care of her children and fulfilling other needs besides motherhood, does not make me a child.

I haven't once looked down on you for deciding to stay home. If you think that then you haven't read any of my posts at all.

Hon, I probably have more time to pursue my own interests as a stay at home mom than I would as a working mom. If my family needed the money for some reason, I would definitely go back to work, but we just don't. And I feel so incredibly fortunate to be able to trust my husband enough to not lead me on a road to divorce court and to support me staying home.

Most of the moms I know are former doctors, nurses, chemists, reporters, environmentalists, you name it. We're just normal people who choose to be sahm's.