Any child psychologists lurking?? Help!!

[Lorikr65]

I have a 12 year-old daughter who really doesn't seem to get it!! She seems to think she can do what she wants and have no consequences. Yesterday she came home with a sheet of paper (she didn't hand it to me, I found it in her backpack). She didn't hand in a timeline that was do in her Science class. She claims she though they were going to do it in class. I did question as to why she didn't say anything to the teacher when it was a day or 2 away and she said she didn't know. So she lost her tv for 2 wks and use of the computer for 1 week.

Another issue with her - she's not suppose to use her cell phone in her room during the day becuase I don't feel like using minutes when she can pick up the home phone and talk to her friends. Gee, guess who was on her cell phone yesterday after she got yelled at for the homework. She said she didn't think I would let her use the home phone so she used her cell.

3rd issue with her - she knows she has to be in bed by 9pm. Well, she barely makes it every night. It's like she tries to push it and see if she can make it. If she isn't in bed by 9pm she loses her tv for the next day. 1/2 the time she doesn't make it.

4th issue - she has a planner that the school gave her for her homework, to write down when projects are due, etc. I look at it everyday. I think she's leaving things off that so that I won't know she has something done and she can do it whenever she feels like it without me knowing. I told her she needs to use it. If I found that homework was not written in there that she would lose privileges. She didn't write homework in there that's due Monday - she got grounded for a week. I left a message with 1 of her teachers on Friday to call me. I want to see if I can get a list of homework, project due dates, test/quiz dates for all her classes.

I just don't understand what goes on in these kids hormone-ridden brains!! I tell her not to do something or else she'll be punished, she does it anyway. I must admit in the past I've been a little lax with following through. If she lost computer privileges I would let her check her email once or twice that night, etc. Within the last month though I have been very consistent because I know she'll figure she can do something and then I'll pull the punishment.

When I do punish her she gets really mad, stamps her feet, etc. I find it strange though that within an hour she'll come to where I am and hug and kiss me and all of a sudden be really nice - and not trying to get something from me. I know all kids are sweet as pie when they want something but she doesn't ask for anything - just wants to sit with me or watch what I'm doing. To me that says she wants to be disciplined.

Any thoughts/suggestions would be greatly appreciated!! Lori

 

[debbi801]

No advice just let's hope it gets better soon vibes. I am going through the exact same issues with my 13 yr old son. I've watched my friends go through it with their middle school aged sons and daughters. Sooner or later, they turn into respectable people. I just hope we all survive until that point.

 

[MUFFYCAT]

Lori, All I can say it's only the beginning!
My DD is 15 and does some of the same things.

Yelling doesn't work. My DD will even say it goes in one ear and out the other.
Right now she doesn't bring her phone to school and I've seen an improvement.

Good luck!!!

 

[KerriSue]

I swear you just described my DS12.

He also has a school planner the difference is that he has to show me and I have to sign it once a week. If an assignment doesnt get completed the teacher will stamp it with HOMEWORK INCOMPLETE/NOT TURNED IN sort of thing. What drives me bonkers is the amount of time the kid he sits and complains about having to the work. If I punish him for not finishing his homework or failing grades Im the bad person.

I wish it would just click and he would get it. I thought that toddlers were hard work, no one ever mentioned to me the pre-teen years.

We also have the bedtime issue at my house. A bed time of 900 means you are in bed with book by that time, not starting to THINK about getting in bed. It kills me. Every single night I have to have a minor heart attack just to get the kids in bed.

Im telling you, my kids are killing me.

OP you are not alone. Maybe we should start a support group

Kerri

 

[The Mystery Machine]

I have a 15yodd who we just found out she did NOT turn in 2 things in chemistry...Yep...So have been through a bunch.

For starters, grounding for 1 week isn't cutting it.

Your punishments should be taking the TV out of the room, boxing up the computer, and taking the cell phone away, until she shapes up.

She has to earn it back.

It is you that doesn't "get it"...so what if she is grounded from "things", that really is not a punishment.

Punishment is something that she has to do, earn, etc...not something that is "taken away".
Although when you do take the stuff away, do that first and then she has to earn it back.

Yea, they act like they care but the secret is they don't.

 

[disneycutie84]

I'm not a child psychologist, but I am a Psychology major and I might be able to help out a bit.
Just as a previous poster stated, taking things away completely and having her earn them back might work quite well. We have learned that negative reinforcement is better for changing behavior than punishment. Punishment is when a negative stimulus is added following negative behavior, negative reinforcement is when a negative stimulus is taken away...following good behavior.
So maybe you could take away the tv, the cell phone, and etc (as the other poster said) and that way, the negative stimulus would be the fact that she doesn't have any of those things in her day to day life. As she does something right (using her planner, doing what she's supposed to do, turning in homework, being polite) a part of the negative stimulus is taken away...by giving one of those items back to her. That would be reinforcing the good behavior, instead of just punishing the bad behavior.
Ok. Just realized how long this post is! I hope I was helpful in some way, even though I basically just expanded on what someone else said!
Good luck!!

 

[rkwells]

My pediatrician says the teen years are Gods way of making you glad when it's time for them to leave home!

 

[DawnCt1]

there are just some kids that make growing up so much harder than it ever needs to be. ds#4 failed algebra in 9th grade so i sent him to summer school. he failed summer school. now believe me it takes effort to fail summer school. in his junior year he failed geometry. he begged me to send him to summer school so he could take geometry and graduate on time. i told him that i learned my lesson and i wasn't wasting my money. if he wanted to go he had to go on his own dime. he got a job and paid for it himself. (i enrolled him ahead of time but didn't tell him). guess what? he did great in summer school. i have an endless supply of stories but the bottom line is, some kids MUST learn the hard way. he is in the process now of learning yet, another lesson. its on going but they eventually do grow up.

 

[DVC Jen]

I'm not a child psychologist, but I am a Psychology major and I might be able to help out a bit.
Just as a previous poster stated, taking things away completely and having her earn them back might work quite well. We have learned that negative reinforcement is better for changing behavior than punishment. Punishment is when a negative stimulus is added following negative behavior, negative reinforcement is when a negative stimulus is taken away...following good behavior.
So maybe you could take away the tv, the cell phone, and etc (as the other poster said) and that way, the negative stimulus would be the fact that she doesn't have any of those things in her day to day life. As she does something right (using her planner, doing what she's supposed to do, turning in homework, being polite) a part of the negative stimulus is taken away...by giving one of those items back to her. That would be reinforcing the good behavior, instead of just punishing the bad behavior.
Ok. Just realized how long this post is! I hope I was helpful in some way, even though I basically just expanded on what someone else said!
Good luck!!

That is exactly what DH and I have been doing with our 13 yr old DD. She has been "a bit on the challenging side" for the past 9 months. It is working.. and working well.

 

[ducklite]

I just don't understand what goes on in these kids hormone-ridden brains!!

You answreed your own post. There's no figuring it out. Kids lose their brains in their teenage years, and regain them as they become adults. Girls usually get them back faster, if it's any consolation.

Anne

 

[Lorikr65]

I guess I am using the work punishment incorrectly. What I do do is take things away, but maybe I'm not taking them away correctly. Should I be taking them away for an undetermined amount of time?? Like when she didn't turn in her assignment I took her TV away for 2 weeks and the computer for 1 week. The TV was physical taken out of her room and the 2 computers are in open areas so she can't sneak going on them.

I found her on the phone this afternoon when she was suppose to be doing her homework and I took the phone from her. She aked when she'd get it back and I said when the homework is done. I think she's just being stubborn because I went in her room 2 minutes ago and she had the same amount done she did an hour ago - she says she's "thinking". Then I see a notebook open that says "christmas list" on the top and her friends names and what she wants to get them. So I closed it and took it. I mentioned to her that I find it funny that she asks when she'll get her phone back and I tell her when her homework is done and she still continues to not do it!!

I don't ground her that often but she likes to go over her friends house so it does bother her when I say no because she's grounded. But I normally take away her favorite things - tv, ipod, cell phone, computer. I just wonder if I'm giving them back to her in the correct way/timeframe.

Thanks all for your help - I'm glad I'm not alone!!

 

[ilovejack02]

I guess I am using the work punishment incorrectly. What I do do is take things away, but maybe I'm not taking them away correctly. Should I be taking them away for an undetermined amount of time?? Like when she didn't turn in her assignment I took her TV away for 2 weeks and the computer for 1 week. The TV was physical taken out of her room and the 2 computers are in open areas so she can't sneak going on them.

I found her on the phone this afternoon when she was suppose to be doing her homework and I took the phone from her. She aked when she'd get it back and I said when the homework is done. I think she's just being stubborn because I went in her room 2 minutes ago and she had the same amount done she did an hour ago - she says she's "thinking". Then I see a notebook open that says "christmas list" on the top and her friends names and what she wants to get them. So I closed it and took it. I mentioned to her that I find it funny that she asks when she'll get her phone back and I tell her when her homework is done and she still continues to not do it!!

I don't ground her that often but she likes to go over her friends house so it does bother her when I say no because she's grounded. But I normally take away her favorite things - tv, ipod, cell phone, computer. I just wonder if I'm giving them back to her in the correct way/timeframe.

Thanks all for your help - I'm glad I'm not alone!!

I support Dr. Phil's way of thinking, you find their "currency" and take that away and dont give it back until they earn it back and he doesnt mean give it back with 1 or 2 completed homework sessions. What is her currency? Is it dance classes or gymnastics or her great designer clothes? OR maybe you should follow more closely with teachers, I got into the habit of following up everyday with my 8th grader (now 17.5 yr old) teachers and If i didnt feel like I was getting the info i needed because he was hiding homework or letters, I would walk into school with him everyday to find teachers to discuss homework, a little embarasment did wonders LOL

 

[The Mystery Machine]

Should I be taking them away for an undetermined amount of time??

Yes. They have to earn it back. 1 or 2 weeks is nothing. When we take away it is for the rest of the grading quarter.

So her report card better come back at a "whatever your rules are" and then we will see if you get it back.

Our rules are 80% and up...to have "stuff", mainly computer for my 15yodd.
Also rule is NO COMPUTER Monday-Thursday. If her grades are 80% and up she gets it on the weekend....if it isn't can't have computer time.

We got lax...and she blew off some chemistry and DH is eating it because I told him she was going to blow it and she did. (grrr...)

 

[Lorikr65]

Our rules are 80% and up...to have "stuff", mainly computer for my 15yodd.

The problem is, she just got her report card, 4 B's, 1 A- and 1 B-. So, even though she misses an assignment here and there, her grades are good so I really can't complain about that. When we went to her parent/teacher conference at least 2-3 teachers said she is a B student but had the potential to be an A student - that's my issue.

Just 5 mintues ago she got done with her homework - a comparison of 3 movies. It was suppose to be 1-3 pages long. She did it and it was 1 full page and 2 lines onto the second. Well, it was in size 16 font. I made her put it into 12 and it wasn't even a full page. She got all mad when I told her she had to think of more things to write. So, I said, "fine, you hand that in and see what you'll get." Then I told her she'll get her phone back when she does it the right way. That didn't go over too well!! I know wonder no more why I am on high blood pressure medication!!

 

[cruisnfamily]

Well, we were having some school work issues with DD14 begining last year in the 7th grade. We talked about it with her and tried to come up with a solution. We found out she hated me being on top of her and riding her for every single assignment. She found out that we wanted As and Bs only on her report card(she's never had anything lower on a report card, but she's had some low, low individual test grades). So here's what we decided.

1)We would only worry about progress reports and report cards. We wanted to see all As and Bs on those.The individual tests and projects were up to her. We wouldn't make her study or even do homework for that matter, it was all up to her. If she got a zero on an assignment or failed a test it was her problem
2)If she brought home anything lower than As and Bs she'd be grounded until the next piece of paper...meaning if it was a progress report, she'd be grounded until report card and if it was a report card, she'd be grounded until mid quarter progress reports. By grounding we found her "currency" and we mean she can't go out with friends, at all. She still had use of the computer and cell phone which are the additional "currency" in her world
3)If on the next report(progress report or report card only) she had As and Bs she was free to go about her business. If however she still had something that was not an A or a B she would lose the cell phone and computer in addition to the grounding of not going out.

Well this worked sooo, sooo well. It removed so much stress from our household to put it on her. And you know what, she rose to the challenge and handled it. All of last year she brought home As and Bs but mostly all As. We didn't worry about nagging her for tests or assignments just left it to her and she did it and nobody was fighting or yelling. We were all very happy.

Fast forward to this year, 8th grade. DD is taking Algebra I for highschool credit. She's struggling. Manages a B first quarter. Second quarter progress report brings a C(her first one ever on a progress report or report card) The grounding kicks in ...you've never seen a kid doing extra, extra work and begging for extra credit and asking her Uncle(a HighSchool math teacher) for help. She managed to bring that grade up to...get this....80.8. A B by the skin of her teeth.

The system is still working.

That doesn't mean we dont' get teenage drama and angst in our house....we certainly do! We just don't have it over school work.

Sorry so long but this has worked so well and really lowered the stress level in our house so I thought I'd share. Hope it helps.

 

[Lorikr65]

Crusinfamily - I know you say you didn't worry about tests and projects, but what would happen if she came home with a note stating she didn't complete her assignement on time? Would you just sign it and leave it up to her or would you ground her? And if you would ground her how long would you ground her for??

Thanks - Lori

 

[cruisnfamily]

Crusinfamily - I know you say you didn't worry about tests and projects, but what would happen if she came home with a note stating she didn't complete her assignement on time? Would you just sign it and leave it up to her or would you ground her? And if you would ground her how long would you ground her for??

Thanks - Lori

I'd probably give her a lecture about how she's going to mess up and be grounded when progress reports come out because if you don't complete your assignments it may bring you down to lower than a B, blah, blah, blah. I would ramble on long enough for her to know I'm annoyed and then I'd tell her that I hoped she was making good decisions and good choices and I'd sign the note. No, I wouldn't ground her because that's not our deal. Our deal is progress reports and report cards only. If she messes up individual tests, assignments, projects, that's on her and she just better hope that it doesn't impact her progress reports or report cards because that's when we step in.

We just didn't want to spend every day going over the assignment book and keeping a time line of tests and projects and nagging. DD didn't want us to do it either, she wanted to do it on her own. So we let her and she's so happy not to get grilled and nagged every day.

Now I just want to mention that I tell her I'm always available for help in studying or whatever she needs. And she did come to me and ask me to help her keep on track with the science fair this year so I would tell her "you need to work on XYZ this week" that kind of thing. But that was at her request. We put it all on her.

Another reason we did this, in addition to alleviating the stress in our house, was because of something DH said one day. He said, "I hope you're going to be ready to pack your bags and go to college with her when she graduates because you're creating a situation where she won't be able to succeed without you". Basically he thought I took on too much of keeping her on task and he thought she needed to do it for herself not just because we told her to

By the way, this is only the 2nd time in DD's life that she's ever been grounded. We don't ground lightly or often. But when we do it has a dramatic effect. It's been a long 5 weeks of grounding but she's more proud of that 80.8 than she's ever been of any grade she's ever gotten. She worked hard for it. Granted it's a low B, but it's a B at one point over the quarter she was as low as a 72 overall so it took a lot of effort to get it to where it is.

Sorry, I tend to ramble. I'm just very happy with how this has worked for us.

Now ask me next year when DS11 starts middle school....it may not work for him. Different kids, ya know. And grounding wouldn't be his "currency", for him it would have to be video games....oh gosh, now I'm dreading his middle school years.

 

[hidmickey:myantidrug]

Granted it's a low B, but it's a B at one point over the quarter she was as low as a 72 overall so it took a lot of effort to get it to where it is.

Just out of curiosity, would the grounding still be as intense if she had gotten .9 lower? I realize that it would make it a C but it is very obvious that she was working her butt off to get there. Is it really fair to ground her for 5 weeks when she is doing everything in her power to get her grade up, which it seems like she is really doing?

This isn't a criticizing of your methods, though. It seems very effective and it's a good plan.

 

[cruisnfamily]

Just out of curiosity, would the grounding still be as intense if she had gotten .9 lower? I realize that it would make it a C but it is very obvious that she was working her butt off to get there. Is it really fair to ground her for 5 weeks when she is doing everything in her power to get her grade up, which it seems like she is really doing?

This isn't a criticizing of your methods, though. It seems very effective and it's a good plan.

Just between you and me(and the DIS ) we were planning to lift her grounding anyway because she was working her butt off. She really was. And if you're trying your hardest and you bring home a C I'm OK with it. It's only if you're not trying that we get upset.

We didn't tell her that though. We were waiting to see how she did. So she still thinks the grounding would have kicked up another notch and she would have lost the cell and computer in addition to no seeing friends. It provides good motivation and allows her to pat herself on the back for doing what she thought was impossible and bringing her grade up to a B.

This quarter she got 5 As and 2 Bs which is about how her report cards generally are. Rarely straight As but always very good.

 

[hidmickey:myantidrug]

Just between you and me(and the DIS ) we were planning to lift her grounding anyway because she was working her butt off. She really was. And if you're trying your hardest and you bring home a C I'm OK with it. It's only if you're not trying that we get upset.

We didn't tell her that though. We were waiting to see how she did. So she still thinks the grounding would have kicked up another notch and she would have lost the cell and computer in addition to no seeing friends. It provides good motivation and allows her to pat herself on the back for doing what she thought was impossible and bringing her grade up to a B.

Great plan! Queen of punishment right here, ladies and gentleman!