Anther school vent...............

[PrincessKsMom]

And speaking of salaries, since teachers only get paid for a 10 month year, then a $30-$60k salary doesn't sound bad for 10 months out of the year. Trying griping to someone working 10 hour shifts in McDonald's who is making significantly less than that and having to put up with nasty customers during the lunch/dinner hours. It's all a matter of perspective.

I don't know what offends me more-that people think I work "part-time" or that my level of education and professionalism was compared to someone who works at McDonald's. See my original comment above. Where in there did I compare your education or professionalism to a McDonald's worker. I simply stated that they probably work just as hard as you, or me, if not harder, and get paid a hell of a lot less to do so. I'm sure some single mom working at McDonald's would be thrilled to be able to work making $30-$60k a year for 10 months' work No wonder students don't respect teachers anymore-their parents are teaching them not to. I get to work at 7:15 every day, and I never leave before 3:30. 2 days a week I stay until 4:30 to tutor. And at least once every 2 wks we have an after school meeting. How many hours is that? That isn't counting the hours I spend at sporting events, choral events, band events, etc. because my students want me there. No lunch break-I get 25 min and have my 5th pd with me in the cafeteria. I have a 50 min planning pd-not quite time to make out lesson plans for my 6 classes (3 different subjects), grade 120 papers, make out tests, run copies, contact parents, etc. Well, I have a planning pd a few days a week anyway, when I'm not tutoring students who are trying to pass the wonderful state tests or covering classes for other teachers. No, most of my grading and preparing happens at home, at night and on the weekends. I was off today for some medical tests, but still went in this morning for 30 min from 7:15 until 7:45 in case my students had any last min questions about the test the sub was giving today, for no pay. I get 7 sick days and 2 personal days a year-after that my pay is cut.

Yes, I knew the pay going in. Unfortunately, I didn't know about the pissy attitudes of some parents. Wow, very professional indeed.Respect-that is the rule in my classroom. Too bad so many parents on this board don't seem to have any for my profession. As you obviously don't for many parents.

Oh, and with a degree in math and 12 yrs experience, a supplement for being dept head, and a supplement for mentoring a new teacher, I finally topped $37,000 this year. I know, I'm way overpaid for my part-time job. No one said you were overpaid. Indeed, I also mentioned I believe most teachers are underpaid and unappreciated.

And for those who don't understand how the pay works. I work 187 days a year. My pay is based on 8 hrs a day for those 187 days. That amount is then divided up into 12 equal paychecks. So no, we aren't getting "paid" holidays all year-my check is based on the days I'm contracted to work only. Yeah, I know. McDonald's workers are envious. How many CEUs do they need every year to keep their jobs? Again, I never said you were getting paid for holidays, etc. I did say you were getting paid $30-$60k for a 10 month position.

I love working in education, and love my kids. I've tried other jobs, and always come back to teaching. But sometimes these threads make me wonder why.

Again, my only point is you know what type of education is required to be a teacher, approximately what type of money you will make, and what kind of hours you need to put in.

 

[Bluestars]

I also don't find it surprising that a 4th grader would joke around about a bomb. I agree, it is all over the TV shows, movies, and videos. I don't think a "trigger word" such as, "bomb", is explained as being a "no-go" in school. I bet none of the kids in that class will say that word again in school though, after the reaction the OP's nephew got!

Could none of the administrators understand how the word was used in jest, in context of the gift? Could none of them explain it wasn't a word to be taken lightly without using such extreme measures? There are a variety of approaches to take in different situations, I'm saddened by how this child was treated. On the flip side, there are times where the approach they took might have been appropriate. Just my .02.

Strange and bewildering.

A 4th grader should know better than to tell people a package they have may be a bomb. It doesn't matter that he was given the package, people can take things out of a box and put other things in it, but that doesn't even matter. When will some parents start making their kids behave and quit making excuses for them?

If any of my kids told kids at their school that they might have a bomb, well then they would deserve to be punished. I wouldn't make excuses for them or say it was a joke. That's what's wrong with some kids. Their parents are always excusing bad behavior instead of not tolerating it.

 

[OceanAnnie]

A 4th grader should know better than to tell people a package they have may be a bomb. It doesn't matter that he was given the package, people can take things out of a box and put other things in it, but that doesn't even matter. When will some parents start making their kids behave and quit making excuses for them?

If any of my kids told kids at their school that they might have a bomb, well then they would deserve to be punished. I wouldn't make excuses for them or say it was a joke. That's what's wrong with some kids. Their parents are always excusing bad behavior instead of not tolerating it.

Okay. You are entitled to your opinion as I am mine. I'll agree to disagree with you.

 

[Bluestars]

Okay. You are entitled to your opinion as I am mine. I'll agree to disagree with you.

That's fair enough. My son goes to a private school with a lot of rules, so I don't mind them. It is one of the things I like about the school. I would hope if any of the kids there started talking about having a bomb, even a 4th grader, it would be taken seriously. I just think that bombs and weapons aren't things that kids need to ever talk about at school.

The problem is the school cannot assume kids are joking. If they did and someone actually had a bomb, they would be in huge trouble and those same parents would be freaking out because the school didn't do anything. There really is no reason for a student to ever tell other kids at school that they have a bomb. Ever.

 

[december]

Again, my only point is you know what type of education is required to be a teacher, approximately what type of money you will make, and what kind of hours you need to put in.

And the people who work at McDonalds knew that when they didn't pursue an education what kind of jobs they would be qualified for.

I did not quote you. The only thing I referenced from your post was the McDonald's comment. It was insulting. I didn't go to med school-I don't expect to make as much as a dr, but would be "thrilled" to of course! I was referencing quite a few posts on this thread, and others that have been popping up on the dis lately. The theme seems to be that the teacher is always wrong. I have tons of respect for good parents-just not for those who are teaching their kids that teachers don't deserve respect for what we do!

 

[OceanAnnie]

That's fair enough. My son goes to a private school with a lot of rules, so I don't mind them. It is one of the things I like about the school. I would hope if any of the kids there started talking about having a bomb, even a 4th grader, it would be taken seriously. I just think that bombs and weapons aren't things that kids need to ever talk about at school.

The problem is the school cannot assume kids are joking. If they did and someone actually had a bomb, they would be in huge trouble and those same parents would be freaking out because the school didn't do anything. There really is no reason for a student to ever tell other kids at school that they have a bomb. Ever.

FTR, we are mostly in agreement. I'm all for rules and policies. I don't mind them at all. Without such things schools would be utter chaos. I do think talk of bombs should be taken seriously, even with a 4th grader. I would never want any school official to assume anything with that kind of language.

I just happen to think this situation could've been handled better from what was mentioned by the OP. It didn't sound like the administrators got to the bottom of the situation. It was a dumb, inappropriate joke. The administrators could've talked and reasoned it out. That was my point. The child was put in handcuffs.

I agree it isn't appropriate to use the word "bomb" at school. I don't think it's something that is, "as widely known", with children as in the adult world of post 911 and other tragedies. I believe that's where we disagree. And as I stated, I'm okay with disagreeing on that point.

 

[Bluestars]

OceanAnnie, it does seem like the school's reaction was a little extreme based on the OP's statement. But who knows what really happened? Maybe this kid is often in trouble and has made other similar comments. It's very hard to know what really happened based on the OP's obvious hatred of all the teachers and the school. Since her views are very negative, who knows what all went on. I have a feeling there's more to the story. I see what you are saying though.


I know kids joke around, but I think parents really need to stress with their kids about what things are inappropriate to say and do at school.

 

[OceanAnnie]

OceanAnnie, it does seem like the school's reaction was a little extreme based on the OP's statement. But who knows what really happened? Maybe this kid is often in trouble and has made other similar comments. It's very hard to know what really happened based on the OP's obvious hatred of all the teachers and the school. Since her views are very negative, who knows what all went on. I have a feeling there's more to the story. I see what you are saying though.


I know kids joke around, but I think parents really need to stress with their kids about inappropriate things to say and do at school.

We agree on more things than not.

 

[PrincessKsMom]

And the people who work at McDonalds knew that when they didn't pursue an education what kind of jobs they would be qualified for.

I did not quote you. The only thing I referenced from your post was the McDonald's comment. It was insulting. I didn't go to med school-I don't expect to make as much as a dr, but would be "thrilled" to of course! I was referencing quite a few posts on this thread, and others that have been popping up on the dis lately. The theme seems to be that the teacher is always wrong. I have tons of respect for good parents-just not for those who are teaching their kids that teachers don't deserve respect for what we do!

Unfortunately, with the economy the way it is, any of us could find ourselves vying for those jobs in McDonalds all too soon, regardless of education and work experience.

Just for the record, I expect my daughter to have more respect for her teachers than I expect her to have for me. I'm her mom, I expect that she'll talk back to me and disagree with me. She is 13 after all. I have been very fortunate in that my daughter has had some wonderful teachers. We did have problems with two, but I think that's just the law of averages at work, considering she's been going to school since PreK3 and she's now in 7th grade. The one thing I constantly instill in her is even if you don't like your teacher, you need to be able to learn from your teacher. Take every last thing they're willing to teach you and run with it! There are people I work with that I may not particularly like, but I do need to be professional and be able to have a professional relationship with them. I expect the same from her regarding the student/teacher relationship. I will always believe that most teachers should be paid more money, just like I believe the POTUS deserves to be better paid -- even when it was George Bush.

 

[december]

Unfortunately, with the economy the way it is, any of us could find ourselves vying for those jobs in McDonalds all too soon, regardless of education and work experience.

Just for the record, I expect my daughter to have more respect for her teachers than I expect her to have for me. I'm her mom, I expect that she'll talk back to me and disagree with me. She is 13 after all. I have been very fortunate in that my daughter has had some wonderful teachers. We did have problems with two, but I think that's just the law of averages at work, considering she's been going to school since PreK3 and she's now in 7th grade. The one thing I constantly instill in her is even if you don't like your teacher, you need to be able to learn from your teacher. Take every last thing they're willing to teach you and run with it! There are people I work with that I may not particularly like, but I do need to be professional and be able to have a professional relationship with them. I expect the same from her regarding the student/teacher relationship. I will always believe that most teachers should be paid more money, just like I believe the POTUS deserves to be better paid -- even when it was George Bush.

Agreed. Fortunately for me, there is still a teacher shortage here, especially in high school math.

As for the AR comments-I love our AR program! Sadly, many kids won't read unless you "make" them. The 1st 20 min of our school day is silent sustained reading time. I can't force my class to read, but I can make them open a book and sit quietly. Most will read, and some have even figured out that they like it! And it gives me time to get my day organized since I usually have kids in my room for tutoring before school.

 

[richmond282]

Can you clarify for me?
Are you saying that the 37 days off for Holidays (our 08-09 school cal., Not the summer off days ) are UNPAID in your state/district?
You said you do not get paid for summer off, but you're off, or are you saying you are REQUIRED to work and then NOT get paid? I am just trying to understand your post.

My teaching contract is for 190 days. That includes 180 teaching days and 10 inservice/ work days. The other stuff is not included in my teaching contract. I get a stipend over and above my teaching salary. I figured it out one year. I make somewhere between 50 and 75 cents an hour for the stuff covered under my stipend. Those underpaid McDonald's employees wouldn't work for that, I'd bet!

And, No, I don't get paid for days I don't work.

 

[monsterkitty]

in my local district, the specials teachers have 4-5 one hour periods versus the "academic" teachers that have 6-7 periods. The specials teachers have one hour preps versus a 42 minute prep for the academic period teachers.

There are trade offs being the special teachers. They usually have to travel inbetween schools and they do have larger amounts of students. (for example, a gym teacher can/does have 2 classes of kids and can/does travel to multiple locations)

Sure, the pay scale is the same, but there is a sort of envy/jealousy that the specials teachers have it easier...

In my world as a specials teacher, we do not have it "easier". I teach six 55-minute class periods and a 30 minute homeroom, and I have a 55 minute planning period just like every other "real" teacher.

Our contract states we cannot have more than 3 preps unless we are a specials teacher. I do not teach the same class twice during the day, so I have 7 different preps. My smallest class has 43 students. Please, do not tell me I do not have papers to grade. We are required to give a writing assignment every day in order to support our building goal to increase our writing scores. This is in addition to my content assignments.

I do not get paid extra for concerts, basketball games, etc, nor do I expect to. I knew going into teaching what to expect in regards to pay. Obviously, I am not in this for the monetary rewards, but rather, for the love of teaching children to appreciate music as I was taught to by several incredible band directors.

I am so lucky in my school that each and every teacher respects and values what we do. We look at each other as equals with a common goal. We support each other, without envy or jealousy. We stand by each other when times are tough and cheer each other for the successes of our students. If we feel a teacher is not pulling his or her weight, we guide them so that they join our team. If they can't or won't pull their weight, we ask them to get off our bus at the end of the year. We believe that we are partners with each other, parents, and even the students in the educational process.

While not all is rosey in our world, we do the best we can to work with each individual who walks through the doors of the school. We will not always agree; however, we will always remain focused on why we are in that building regardless of whether we are a teacher, administrator, support staff, or parent.

 

[horseshowmom]

No, you're right, they don't look for pity, but I also don't want to hear how they don't get paid during the summer, work long hours, have little budgets to work with. YOU KNEW THAT BEFORE YOU BECAME A TEACHER. It's like a fireman complaining that they make him run into burning buildings, or that they have to work 3-24 hours shift.

The only time I've ever heard a teacher mention any of that is when people start talking about how teachers get all that time off - as was asked on here about all the "holidays" that teachers get. Clearing up incorrect assumptions is not looking for sympathy.

I completely agree that teachers are underpaid, spend much of their own money and are sometimes unappreciated. But teachers shouldn't spend the rest of their lives complaining about how bad they have it when they knew that before they took the job.

I'm not complaining about the pay. It is a fact though that teachers spend a great deal of time working that is unpaid (there are other professions that do the same but for some reason people tend to single teachers out more often). I agree that I knew the salary before I went into it and factored in that I wanted to not be at work summers (at least that was my original plan, back before I started working summers too). On the other hand, I am definitely going to correct others when I see huge salaries thrown out as the norm.

And speaking of salaries, since teachers only get paid for a 10 month year, then a $30-$60k salary doesn't sound bad for 10 months out of the year.

My $58,000 per year is based on a year round contract since I also work full-time during the summer (and that's with 23 years experience and a Master's degree).

Trying griping to someone working 10 hour shifts in McDonald's who is making significantly less than that and having to put up with nasty customers during the lunch/dinner hours. It's all a matter of perspective.

I have the utmost respect for anybody who is willing to work, however the shift worker at McD's probably didn't put the years and money into getting a Master's degree.

As another poster said, I certainly don't expect to make what a doctor makes because I haven't put into it what they have. It's comparing apples and oranges IMHO.

And you'd probably be surprised how often teachers have to deal with "nasty customers" too.

 

[Kathi OD]

First off, they just want our kids to attend all days of school so they can get their money from the government so that is just point blank greed.

Maybe you would prefer to pay more in property taxes in order to provide for the funding the school loses due to student absenteeism?

A few people have mentioned gym teachers making such and amount or specials....I am confused. K-12, gym, special ed, specials, ap calculus or 6th grade, or kindergarten, we are all on the same pay scale. Is that not the same in other places? in that case, I think I deserve more! hahaha Not only do I teach 7th grade, I teach math!

Same in my district. Subject matter does not matter, years of experience and level of education does. The only other difference in annual salary is if you have a 10-month or 12-month contract.

 

[Cindy B]

In my world as a specials teacher, we do not have it "easier". I teach six 55-minute class periods and a 30 minute homeroom, and I have a 55 minute planning period just like every other "real" teacher.

Our contract states we cannot have more than 3 preps unless we are a specials teacher. I do not teach the same class twice during the day, so I have 7 different preps. My smallest class has 43 students. Please, do not tell me I do not have papers to grade. We are required to give a writing assignment every day in order to support our building goal to increase our writing scores. This is in addition to my content assignments.

I do not get paid extra for concerts, basketball games, etc, nor do I expect to. I knew going into teaching what to expect in regards to pay. Obviously, I am not in this for the monetary rewards, but rather, for the love of teaching children to appreciate music as I was taught to by several incredible band directors.

I am so lucky in my school that each and every teacher respects and values what we do. We look at each other as equals with a common goal. We support each other, without envy or jealousy. We stand by each other when times are tough and cheer each other for the successes of our students. If we feel a teacher is not pulling his or her weight, we guide them so that they join our team. If they can't or won't pull their weight, we ask them to get off our bus at the end of the year. We believe that we are partners with each other, parents, and even the students in the educational process.

While not all is rosey in our world, we do the best we can to work with each individual who walks through the doors of the school. We will not always agree; however, we will always remain focused on why we are in that building regardless of whether we are a teacher, administrator, support staff, or parent.

I definetely see your point. However, I did witness a verbal agrument between a specials teacher and a classroom teacher about how her preps are longer for a "limited amount of work". The specials teacher then ended the argument by stating that a Masters degree was required for her licensure and she could get a Bachelors and "get by".

I've subbed in specials rooms. It is challenging. I have also seen where specials teachers get pulled to do classroom duty if there are not enough building subs for the day. A former school where I was was FAMOUS for that. Of course, that is all types of wrong, but the principal allowed it!

 

[jemgumby]

Maybe you would prefer to pay more in property taxes in order to provide for the funding the school loses due to student absenteeism?


Same in my district. Subject matter does not matter, years of experience and level of education does. The only other difference in annual salary is if you have a 10-month or 12-month contract.

Again, I think the majority of you are missing my true point. I understand schools need funding. It is ridiculous to think they would not. My point is, when schools receive that funding it is conditional. They agree to abide by certain laws, etc. However, unfortunately where I live our little school blatantly defies those laws. That is what really makes me angry. That is why I again view it dishonest and greedy. Again, I know for a fact that if I were to personally take my case with the ACLU that they would loose their federal funding because they were not complying.

 

[Magic Mom]

Again, I think the majority of you are missing my true point. I understand schools need funding. It is ridiculous to think they would not. My point is, when schools receive that funding it is conditional. They agree to abide by certain laws, etc. However, unfortunately where I live our little school blatantly defies those laws. That is what really makes me angry. That is why I again view it dishonest and greedy. Again, I know for a fact that if I were to personally take my case with the ACLU that they would loose their federal funding because they were not complying.

You already did take it to the ACLU. What have they done about it? And once the school gets no more funding, will you pull your child out?

 

[a1tinkfans]

Saw some of the comments/rebuttals about salaries, here's a recent interesting article relating to veteran teachers.
Clearly the northern part of the country is paying much more as can be seen in our districts too.

In response to ??? I know NO parents that TEACH their kids not to respect teachers that is horrifying!
Kids that are disrespectful need to be dealt with. NO one deserves disrespect whether you're a teacher or a sou chef!

You Hard Working Teachers need to move North
Though the cost of living can be much higher in many areas!

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/01/fashion/01generationb.html
(I hope I was able to do that, if not OOPS, sorry and you can remove.)

Keep the Faith everyone, Teach our Kids and Make'm SHINE!

 

[jemgumby]

Really Magic Mom, why would I pull my DD out if the school got more funding? Seriously.......Yes, I did go to the ACLU but all of the crap I put up with happened at the LOWER elementary and this year she is in the UPPER elementary. Therefore, 2 different schools. So basically, statute of limitations have run out for all of the crap I put up with for 3 years at that stupid school. However, the ACLU is VERY interested in helping me pursue in the future if the same kind of stupid crap goes on at this particular school. If you read through the posts you will see that I have already pointed out the fact that this upper elem is better and we haven't had the same crap go on this year as we have had the previous 3 years. That helps in dealing with the injustic we personally endured all those years. Looking back, I wish I had contacted the ACLU immediately when my DD was in kindergarten when the first incident happened. However, my DH didn't want to do that as he 1) didn't want this to get big publicity 2) really thought we could work it out with the prinicpal, etc. When I finally did contact the ACLU it was in April or May of her last year at that particular school. I was hoping to be able to do something but it is a slow process and takes forever. The ACLU lawyer did send a letter to that school stating that certain practices needed to stop though. So my point being, that school did rub me the wrong way because in effect they were receiving money for my child being at school yet they were not willing to accomodate her as an individual. I am not going to go into details because that will probably just start another thread as it is hot button issues. Basically, the bottom line is that this school is run by people who all go to the same church and run in the same circles. I think there is like maybe 2 black kids at that school. So there is no diversity and they do not know how to deal with diversity like different religious beliefts, etc. It is like "oh well, you don't believe how we do so we are the majority and we get our way and your DD will just have to sit there and endure it" kind of attitude. OK this is my last post to this thread as I AM DONE!!!!! Have a great day everybody!

 

[MM27]

In response to ??? I know NO parents that TEACH their kids not to respect teachers that is horrifying!
Kids that are disrespectful need to be dealt with. NO one deserves disrespect whether you're a teacher or a sou chef!

Many parents don't outright teach their kids to be disrespectful, but they show them that it's okay by their own words/actions. I had a parent curse me out in the hallway one year in front of not only my class, but 4 other classes as well. Think her daughter had any respect for me? She did this because she was picking up her daughter's report card and when she saw that the girl failed just about everything, she decided to take it out on me. Forget the fact that I called her every other day with my concerns, or that I put in a referral for her daughter because she was so far behind. It was just my fault that her daughter was failing so I got called every name in the book.

So every time a parent tells their kid how stupid an assignment is, or talks poorly about something the teacher said or did, they are telling the child that it's okay to have that attitude and disrespect. Many parents think that it's okay to do that, but they probably wouldn't like it if the teacher started talking to their child about what he/she thought about the way they parent.