Another thread about the disappearing "Disney Way"

[dragitoff]

I'm your typical Disney fanatic. I have an AP, I listen to park music frequently, I love planning my family and other family's trips, my home office and work office are decorated with various Disney memorabilia , I run many of the Disney races, and my teenage daughters know Disney so well they could be park tour guides already. All that said, I wanted to qualify my Disney experience prior to saying what I'm about to say....

We just returned from another trip to WDW. This trip was for multiple families and there were 20 total in our group. The group ranged from vets to first timers, kids and adults, married and single people. It was an extremely diverse group and many were unbiased heading into this trip.

My wife and I have been concerned with the where customer service has been going at WDW for some time now, but our love for Disney has always trumped the concern and we continue to go. For us, going to Disney used to mean saving for 2 years and spending every penny we had to enjoy a family vacation there and we never thought twice about it. The customer service made it an experience that couldn't be found anywhere else. We forgot about our problems while we were "inside the bubble" and loved every second we were there and missed it every second we weren't.

This past trip the blatant disrespect from CM to guests have pushed us to the edge of never wanting to return, and we actually own a vacation home just outside Disney. I've never seen so many CM's getting frustrated with guests and not hiding their frustration, and even lashing out at them with sarcastic comments and trying to belittle them. Sometimes it was merely observed by us, but other times it was even directed at us. I totally get their job can be frustrating and they probably get a lot of unwarranted hostility directed at them, but some of the interactions I observed was completely uncalled for.

The part that makes it so hard to digest is the constant money grabs Disney is doing right now. The perception that the parks are more crowded also makes it a dangerous combination. Increased prices + less experienced CM's + longer wait times = more dissatisfied guests which correlates to more lashing out at CM's which equals more unprofessional CM reactions. It's a vicious cycle.

I'm not going to bore you guys with specific details as this post was long enough; however I just felt I needed to get this out there for my own therapeutic needs and to possibly release my frustration and take a step back and reconsider our decisions to take a Disney break for an extended period of time. During our short trip (3 days in the parks), I witnessed the worst CM service I've yet to experience during MK and AK days, and some of the old-time service during our Epcot day. The Disney Way isn't dead, but guests shouldn't have to search for it or be pleasantly surprised when they find it.

 

[PSUGuy]

We've yet to have a bad experience with a CM at any time during yearly trips since 1999. The thing that's unmistakable is the number of things that have been cut from the WDW Experience. It started with the attractions at PI and PI itself going away. I often told wifey that I'd gladly fly to Orlando just to have a week of the Adventurer's Club and the Comedy Warehouse. Fast on the heels of that went Off Kilter then The World Showcase Players to be followed by paid parking at WDW resorts and I'm sure I'm missing stuff that doesn't affect me. I realize these changes aren't aimed at me personally but it seems that the Disney Suits are trying to see just how much they can eliminate before I take our vacation $$ elsewhere.

Bill From PA

 

[GusGusTheMouse]

I do not think you are wrong. My family is also composed of fanatics and we have been going to Disney for the last 30 years. I took two trips to WDW this past year, the first with a first timer and the second with my fanatic family, and both times I witnessed unprofessional CM behavior. On the first trip, I was shocked to see one of the young boat conductors meander around fist bumping his friends who were hollering at him on the boardwalk to come say hi when he was supposed to undo the rope at the dock. While it was a minor thing, I had never seen a CM take a personal moment before in front of guests, but it was a minor and I wrote it off as a fluke. But going again 6 months later and seeing a CM blatantly make sarcastic comments and belittle a family that did not understand what she was directing, I too, started to question if the "Disney way" was disappearing. As a family, we have decided that our next trip may be well into the future. Or perhaps without my parents, who were honestly so disappointed with the last trip due to CM behavior and general increase in costs and crowds, they do not think they will go again.

 

[dragitoff]

Since we have a house there, we often take people with us. It's almost embarrassing to us when the bad interactions happen because we've felt like we were Disney ambassadors because of our fandom. For many of these people, they've got very little Disney experience so they think this is just how it is with Disney. We actually had not 1, not 2, but 3 CM's sarcastically reply with "Have a Magical Day" when they made rude comments almost giving a giant, Mickey-glove sized middle finger to the old way of doing things at Disney World.

 

[Pete W.]

I'm not minimizing or discounting your disappointing experience in any way, but I've been on these boards for 20 years and have seen this type of post several times a year for each of those 20 years. Is it possible that the pinnacle of the 'Disney Way' was when WDW opened in 1971 and its been going steadily down hill for the past 47 years? Or have visitor perceptions changed over the years, or as we get older do we get more observant of shortcomings at the parks and resorts?

While I have noticed some drop-off in cleanliness, service level, friendliness, etc. at WDW since my first trip in 1994, the changes haven't been enough to stop me from going yet, but maybe I'm not as observant or demanding as other folks. And I do recall many laments in the 1990s from people who were disappointed in how much things had deteriorated since 1971, and even some people who had experienced Disneyland in the 50s and 60s and who claim WDW never had the same standards as Disneyland.

It's scary to think how bad WDW will be in another 47 years if things keep getting worse! Well, at least our DVC contract at BWV runs out in 2042 so we won't have an incentive to return in 2043.

 

[Spencer Wright]

I'm not minimizing or discounting your disappointing experience in any way, but I've been on these boards for 20 years and have seen this type of post several times a year for each of those 20 years. Is it possible that the pinnacle of the 'Disney Way' was when WDW opened in 1971 and its been going steadily down hill for the past 47 years? Or have visitor perceptions changed over the years, or as we get older do we get more observant of shortcomings at the parks and resorts?

...

I am very glad you posted what I quoted above!! I am relatively new to the online Disney fandom and Disboards, and was actually going to post a thread asking if this is something which occurs periodically (fans and guests ripping WDW to shreds).

It does seem that perhaps the Disney experience is not what it used to be, but is still quite remarkable. There are (as you point out) certainly concerns and issues, but I don't believe WDW is in the serious decline many say it is.

If one goes on the Trip Reports board, there are overwhelmingly positive reports coming back.

I have a trip upcoming in August and am beginning to get nervous about it, but will focus on the positive feedback from returning guests! As intricate and complicated as WDW is, there will always be one or two major issues gumming up the works!

 

[dragitoff]

I'm not minimizing or discounting your disappointing experience in any way, but I've been on these boards for 20 years and have seen this type of post several times a year for each of those 20 years. Is it possible that the pinnacle of the 'Disney Way' was when WDW opened in 1971 and its been going steadily down hill for the past 47 years? Or have visitor perceptions changed over the years, or as we get older do we get more observant of shortcomings at the parks and resorts?

While I have noticed some drop-off in cleanliness, service level, friendliness, etc. at WDW since my first trip in 1994, the changes haven't been enough to stop me from going yet, but maybe I'm not as observant or demanding as other folks. And I do recall many laments in the 1990s from people who were disappointed in how much things had deteriorated since 1971, and even some people who had experienced Disneyland in the 50s and 60s and who claim WDW never had the same standards as Disneyland.

It's scary to think how bad WDW will be in another 47 years if things keep getting worse! Well, at least our DVC contract at BWV runs out in 2042 so we won't have an incentive to return in 2043.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion; however I prefaced my comments with my experience with Disney so I don't think this is merely perception. I've been to Disneyland numerous times as well and have never tried to compare the two on a customer service standpoint because that really isn't much of a comparison. Maybe Disney shot themselves in the foot by setting the standard so high it would be challenging to maintain, although other businesses like Chick Fil-A routinely sustain and even improve on their customer service because they refuse to take a step back in that regards EVER. Who is primarily employed by Chick Fil-A? Teenagers so it can be done, and I'm not trying to take an isolated incident and not giving grace for a single CM having a bad day. We're all human so I get that. This has been an ongoing trend for years now.

I'm a business owner and owned a business in 3 states that had over 300 employees. We sold that business to a Fortune 50 company a few years ago so I understand and lament with business training. You have to create a culture within a business where your employees feel respected and therefore respect those around them. It's the same principal I teach each of my 6 children today. It's not easy as our current society is more microwave mentality and social media has made many feel like "celebrities" so we expect more, but CM's flat out throwing their hands in the air and verbally saying "These people are driving me crazy" within earshot of 100 guests (and seeing multiple incidents similar to this) is because the emphasis for creating a culture of respect has left the training centers.

I sincerely attribute much of this to the increase in CM's from the College program to save $. As a business owner, I genuinely do not fault Disney for this mentality as it makes it more affordable, but if younger people generally lack quality customer service skills and professionalism, you have to arm them with that in training and cannot release them into your parks as representatives of your company if they're not ready. It will only affect you down the road, but if you find quality people who want to do a good job, you pay them what they're worth. I've always said give me 1 person who WANTS to make a difference over 10 who WANT a job.

 

[Spencer Wright]

...

I sincerely attribute much of this to the increase in CM's from the College program to save $. As a business owner, I genuinely do not fault Disney for this mentality as it makes it more affordable, but if younger people generally lack quality customer service skills and professionalism, you have to arm them with that in training and cannot release them into your parks as representatives of your company if they're not ready. It will only affect you down the road, but if you find quality people who want to do a good job, you pay them what they're worth. I've always said give me 1 person who WANTS to make a difference over 10 who WANT a job.

In my opinion, while the increase in the college program (CP) as a device of staffing may be an issue, I think the primary issue is low pay. This has been a problem with Disney as long as it has been a company. Recently on the podcast, they were discussing how they are now squeezing bunk beds into CP housing, but of course charging no less for housing.

If you are showing up to do a job, you should of course complete it in a professional and appropriate manner. However, companies more and more do not want to compensate employees to any fair degree, but are shocked when performance is sub-standard.

If you pay a college kid $15 - $18 an hour (for example), I can say from my own personal experience you can easily get top notch work. However, this an investment Disney and many other companies are simply not interested in making.

 

[Jess_S]

I sincerely attribute much of this to the increase in CM's from the College program to save $. As a business owner, I genuinely do not fault Disney for this mentality as it makes it more affordable, but if younger people generally lack quality customer service skills and professionalism, you have to arm them with that in training and cannot release them into your parks as representatives of your company if they're not ready. It will only affect you down the road, but if you find quality people who want to do a good job, you pay them what they're worth. I've always said give me 1 person who WANTS to make a difference over 10 who WANT a job.

For as long as there have been humans, there have been people complaining about how kids these days don't measure up. I don't think it's any more true now than it was when your grandparents said it about your generation.

When I did the college program, my experience was that the cast members who took their jobs most seriously were the CPs and local college kids. I saw career CMs literally hide during parts of their shift to avoid doing work and I busted my butt to make up for their slacking. I had career CMs tell me that it didn't matter if trays came out of the washer dirty or that garbage cans were overflowing. I never heard an attitude like that from any of the college-age people. Does this mean that we should assume that career Disney employees in their 30s generally lack initiative and professionalism? I don't think so, because I don't think you can really ever make a gross generalization about a large group of people. I do think it undercuts the opinion that college students as a group lack professionalism.

Of course, it's been 15 years since my CP, so maybe kids these days really are terrible employees.

 

[Mamapapa]

The part that makes it so hard to digest is the constant money grabs Disney is doing right now. The perception that the parks are more crowded also makes it a dangerous combination. Increased prices + less experienced CM's + longer wait times = more dissatisfied guests which correlates to more lashing out at CM's which equals more unprofessional CM reactions. It's a vicious cycle.

I think this hits the nail on the head....