Another Removal At WDW

[ondori]

The thing is, in 6 to 8 months, no one will care anymore, and the public will be harping on the next subject. These flags will fly again.

 

[delyrium]

Yes, it's not a parallel at all- our currency does not exclusively feature presidents, and never has.

 

[sharadoc]

Same thinking that caused the Japan Pavilion to scrap it's attractions because of WWII. I think it's important to acknowledge ALL history, rather than pick and choose what we remember, since "forgetting" can lead to "repeating" and sometimes the repetition is not what we would like to happen.

 

[oylerfam1]

since "forgetting" can lead to "repeating" and sometimes the repetition is not what we would like to happen

Well said!

 

[delyrium]

It's true, but is a Disney theme park where we go to remember history? If so, the Germany pavilion should be vastly different.

 

[sersee05]

I'm not a history buff ..at all. I can't remember what I had for breakfast let alone what I learned in school. We know there are people out there who aren't flying that flag because they know or identify with the history.

I have to agree with being against banning and pc people being offended by everything. This is a general statement. I'm offended by many things but that doesn't mean it should be banned. There is a whole thread about disney behaviors that should be banned. People actually get upset when a family is in line, and a parent has to leave to take their child to the bathroom. That boggled my mind.

Businesses make decisions to keep their business flourishing. I have no issue with Disney removing it. Disney is a business and made a decision.

 

[Gillyrose779]

Same thinking that caused the Japan Pavilion to scrap it's attractions because of WWII. I think it's important to acknowledge ALL history, rather than pick and choose what we remember, since "forgetting" can lead to "repeating" and sometimes the repetition is not what we would like to happen.

I guess I'm not understanding. There are many ways to acknowledge our history without waving a war flag in a business. It will still be in history books and museums. People still have the right to wave the flag even if it is seen by some as tacky. People still discuss our history.. movies are made, books are wrote.

My grandmother had to hail Hitler and deal with the German army when they occupied the Netherlands. She definitely doesn't want you to forget what happened but she'd rather not see the Nazi Flag flying either.

 

[bumbershoot]

For example,couldn't descendents of the Bataan Death March POWs feel upset when seeing the Japaneses flag when visiting WS?

They might very well. Do you think they don't feel that way? My MIL grew up in occupied Korea and has some strong feelings still.

Or do you mean that they might have that feeling and get things changed at Epcot? Seems unlikely. Now if she went home to visit her sisters and found that a whole swath of Korea was waving some hybrid Japanese flag, her sisters (citizens of Korea unlike MIL) might get that changed.

Someone used Orwellian words. What's happened is that one person finally pushed enough people to SEE what that flag means. What it has always meant. For decades the people who like the flag have convinced enough people that it was innocent so they could keep using it. But it's not innocent. Never has been. And now we see it.

If you choose to display it you go for it. But those who see it, now that the wool has been pulled from our eyes at long last, will end up seeing it as a sign of who you are. And there might be pushback about it.

And that doesn't mean it's groupthink. (Actually, convincing people that it's ok to fly at a Capitol is more of an example of that lol). Means we all finally see it for what it is.

 

[bumbershoot]

Can't edit right now. Read too quickly and missed the pow part. I was reading and thinking back to a conversation with a friend, who grew up in the Philippines with relatives who lived there during the war. They have the same issues still with the force that occupied them. So I was imagining the residents, not the POWs. Not sure my statement needs to change much but wanted to explain my apparent non sequitur. Or at least why it was made.

 

[AngiTN]

This quote in the article bothered me: "I think in this day and age we shouldn't be promoting a part of our history we're not proud of," she said. I'm going to give the woman they interviewed the benefit of the doubt and assume it was in-artfully worded. But it sounds awfully close to saying, "I support the decision to remove the flag because then I can pretend this distasteful episode in our history never happened." I support Disney's right to make a call about whether a particular exhibit is appropriate -- especially since they are running a family amusement park and not a history museum. But I hope we don't get to a point where we are denying history and pretending that somehow makes us PC.

Sadly, that ship has sailed.

 

[RustManFan]

and remember, thousands and thousands of young southern men (some women and children too) died in the Civil War. Many of them were not fighting for a political cause and few were slave owners. They were fighting in support of their fathers, brothers, sons, neighbors....

the America that was lost as a result of that war on both sides must be acknowledged.... not glorified.

what might those young men have contributed to society if their lives had not been cut short?

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Wow,interesting times at WDW-wonder what could be next?

http://touch.orlandosentinel.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-83953933/

I am surprised they had it and don't recall seeing it.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I get why Disney would do this, but, really, in the context of The American Adventure pavilion, it was wholly appropriate. The show depicts scenes from the Civil War (Two Brothers sequence, which is brilliant and heart-wrenching!). I don't think they were using it in any way to glorify it, but it is a part of history. Of course, the uneducated masses who follow the media narrative don't understand it at all, and I'm sure they don't want complaints. I am not a fan of the flag or the Confederacy myself (even as a Southerner), but striking it from every instance of public display (this was even the "correct" flag) is a myopic move that does not solve any of the real problems we face in this country.

To be fair, I don't think we see Nazi flags hanging in Germany. I don't see this necessarily as denial.

I do see American adventure as a museum, though. In the context of the attraction, I don't think removal is necessary. As I said before I had not even noticed it. So it was not like it was an ostentatious display celebrating the Confederacy.

However, I don't think it's removal in this context is necessarily hiding the history either. I sent more on the level of the Germany pavillion, where the Nazi flag is not hanging anywhere that I recall.

 

[Magpie]

They might very well. Do you think they don't feel that way? My MIL grew up in occupied Korea and has some strong feelings still.

Or do you mean that they might have that feeling and get things changed at Epcot? Seems unlikely. Now if she went home to visit her sisters and found that a whole swath of Korea was waving some hybrid Japanese flag, her sisters (citizens of Korea unlike MIL) might get that changed.

Someone used Orwellian words. What's happened is that one person finally pushed enough people to SEE what that flag means. What it has always meant. For decades the people who like the flag have convinced enough people that it was innocent so they could keep using it. But it's not innocent. Never has been. And now we see it.

If you choose to display it you go for it. But those who see it, now that the wool has been pulled from our eyes at long last, will end up seeing it as a sign of who you are. And there might be pushback about it.

And that doesn't mean it's groupthink. (Actually, convincing people that it's ok to fly at a Capitol is more of an example of that lol). Means we all finally see it for what it is.

Well said!

I'm Canadian, but my family has deep southern roots. Most of them still live in Mississippi and Alabama.

Growing up, I loved watching the Dukes of Hazzard, but my mum always made sure I understood that that flag on top of their car was only "innocent" in the context of the show, and to white people who don't know any better. She'd point out that there were no black characters on the show, except for one token black cop who had no personality whatsoever, and only showed up briefly in a couple of episodes. Then she'd ask me where in the South I thought I could go, where I'd never see a black face?

I got the point - the Dukes of Hazzard is a fairy tale. It's not real. But the flag is real, and it's been used to hurt people.

I'm glad Disney is taking it down. Right now, all the flag says is, "You're not welcome here," and that's the opposite message from the one Disney and gov't institution (and I'd hope most other public venues) wants to send.

 

[ArwenMarie]

I think it was a good decision to take it down.

 

[kiltclan]

The thing is, the version Disney was using was the historically accurate "blood-stained banner"; considering the hubub in the media is about the "rebel flag" that we all know and recognize which is NOT a historic flag, but rather came around in the 20th Century due to extremists groups, I could have dealt with Disney's decision no matter what it was.

I'm all for displaying history prominently where we can remember it, what caused it, and do our best to keep it from repeating itself as we could have done with the flag represented at Disney; a flag that, yes, many southern men and boys died under. But in the end its Disney's decision to keep it out of the theme park.

But what people are now turning against, is displaying a flag that was created almost 100 years after those deaths, based solely around one aspect of why those people died in the first place, and trying to claim that it has valid historical value based within hatred

 

[Magpie]

The thing is, the version Disney was using was the historically accurate "blood-stained banner"; considering the hubub in the media is about the "rebel flag" that we all know and recognize which is NOT a historic flag, but rather came around in the 20th Century due to extremists groups, I could have dealt with Disney's decision no matter what it was.

I'm all for displaying history prominently where we can remember it, what caused it, and do our best to keep it from repeating itself as we could have done with the flag represented at Disney; a flag that, yes, many southern men and boys died under. But in the end its Disney's decision to keep it out of the theme park.

But what people are now turning against, is displaying a flag that was created almost 100 years after those deaths, based solely around one aspect of why those people died in the first place, and trying to claim that it has valid historical value based within hatred

Also, the thing about museums is that certain symbols (like the swastika) must be displayed with context and in an educational sense.

The flags at Disney aren't really explained, not the way they are in more formal museums. They're hung more as general theming, or decoration. It's very different from setups like the one at Beauvoir (The Jefferson Davis Home and Presidential Library). They've actually got a fantastic exhibition on right now about the history of the various Confederate flags, with written explanations of each flag and what they symbolized and where they were used. That's where we first found out that the "Stars and Bars" is a completely different flag from the one we thought it was.

So many Southerners (my family lives in Mississippi, and I spend many summers there) really don't know their own history very well.

 

[GATORinaZ28]

Meh...I'm glad it's gone.

 

[GATORinaZ28]

I got the point - the Dukes of Hazzard is a fairy tale. It's not real.

I live right next to Bubba Watson's hometown. As you probably know, he is the owner of one of the General Lee's used in the TV show. You should see the ridiculous amount of backlash against him from locals for saying that he was going to paint over the flag on his General Lee car. Make's me sad to read the things that they are saying about one of our hometown figures.

 

[Magpie]

I live right next to Bubba Watson's hometown. As you probably know, he is the owner of one of the General Lee's used in the TV show. You should see the ridiculous amount of backlash against him from locals for saying that he was going to paint over the flag on his General Lee car. Make's me sad to read the things that they are saying about one of our hometown figures.

I loved the Dukes of Hazzard so much - Daisy Duke was my hero - but I don't think I could in good conscience drive the car in public. It's deliberately provoking, and not in the spirit of the show (never meanin no harm). I'm happy to see it at car shows and conventions, though! And I'd hate to see a classic movie prop painted over... but if that's what the owner of the car feels he needs to do in light of recent events, I'd respect his decision.