Another potty training issue

[LuvBaloo]

If he's waking up wet every night, then I'd stick with a diaper at bedtime, just to save yourself dealing with him waking up in the night. If its only some nights that he is wet, then I'd go with no diaper or pullup.

Some kids actually make it through the night and then pee in the pullup when they first wake up (at least both of mine did). They knew it would absorb, so they'd rather play than go to the potty right away.

DD4 still has an occasional accident, the last time, I was tired, and it wasn't too big of a wet spot, so I just put a towel over put clean jammies on her, and dealt with wiping her down and changing the sheets in the morning.

 

[MomofM&M]

Some advice from a pedi mom.
Well, first off, if your son was doing fine for a year and suddenly had a bit of regression/ wanting to poop in his pants, this is very much a control issue since he has been able to do it in the past. Unfortunately, no matter how much we want them to do it the proper way, they are in control. My daughter was pee trained at 22 months but took much longer for number two. She would poop on the potty for the sitter but in her pants for me as soon as I picked her up. I think I tried just about every tactic but when I finally gave up and made no comment about her accident and acted like I didn't care, she said, "Mommy, aren't you upset I poo-pooed in my pants?" I said no, and the accidents suddenly stopped. Another pedi mom told me how she tried to get her 3 yo daughter to try the potty and finally she stopped when her daughter said, "Mommy, it's MY body and I'll pee where I want to." Her daughter knew she had to be potty trained for preschool and the morning of preschool, she put on her underwear and said, "I'm ready to pee on the potty," and never had an accident. So really, to beat home the point, your son is the one in control here so something else is going on.
Could it be that he sensed something new was going on, eg your pregnancy? You mentioned gagging and vomiting maybe from morning sickness, perhaps this is his way of getting some attention from you? Negative attention is still some attention. My daughter had a brief period where she was pee and poo trained, then I had my second daughter and then the poo accidents started. You have to be very careful on how you deal with this as if he starts exhibiting stool holding behavior, you start a vicious cycle of constipation.
If you can try to ignore the mess, or at least act like you don't care about it. Start making a big deal about the daytime poops, give a sticker on a chart and when he gets 10 stickers reward him with Mommy and Me (alone) time. Maybe he'll be motivated to poop on the potty during the day. Lots of luck as I know cleaning poop out of underwear is no fun. Good luck!

 

[teachallday]

We do have that thick training underwear, and actually, one of those pairs is his 'favorite'. Interestingly, it's his sister's old underwear with little pink hearts all over it. Maybe I'll stick him in those with those plastic underwear things on top if he keeps refusing the diaper. He never soils his underwear so I wouldn't think he'd do that, then again, he went in his pajama pants so what do I know!

And his 'currency', for those interested, is a vacuum. Yes, an actual vacuum. We bought him a real vacuum a few weeks ago and he is beside himself with it. I hate having to take it away, but I think that will be the bribe-as in, keep your pants clean and you get the vacuum, otherwise it stays in the closet the next day.

1 last question: My plan this past week had been to put a pullup on him after he went to sleep so he wasn't peeing in his bed all night. SHould I do that? Or put on a diaper? Or the underwear? Or leave him be? The thing is, when he pees overnight, if he's just in his pajamas, he wakes up from the cold/wet feeling and then gets me, and I have to clean him up and change his pants and sheets (or stick him in my bed, but he kicks so that is not my 1st choice). But if changing him after he's asleep will perpetuate the problem then I won't do it and just live with waking up everynight.

I learned a long time ago that there are two things you can never force a child to do. Eat and use the toilet. You can manipuate them into them, but not force them. Bodily functions are the only thing a child actually has control over.

You said he doesn't have "accidents" during the day, he goes in the toilet. Saying that he is fully toilet trained during the day. Well, I am not sure I agree with that statement. If you son is pooping his pants / PJ's / underwear before going to sleep, then he is awake and having "accidents". Although they are not really "accidents", for an accidents is when it happens but the child didn't want it to happen. But back to my point. You child is NOT getting all his poop in the toilet during the day when he is awake.

I have always had a very simple rule. Underwear is for kids who get all their pee and poop in the potty. Pull-ups are for kids who try to get all their pee and poop in the potty but on rare occasions do not always make it. Diapers are for kids who do not try to get all their pee and poop in the potty or are unable to (like when they are sleeping or when they have a disability).

I look for logical consequence for an action. In your situation, I would very mater-of-factly put him back into diapers (not pull-ups and not cloth pull on diapers). He knows poop goes in the potty, and he is choosing not to use the toilet but just let his poop come out. Kids who do that wear diapers. It is logical and a connection a child can see and understand. He made the choice to not use the toilet, so he made the choice that he wanted to go back to diapers since he nows that kids who don't use the potty wear diapers.
- - - - Only grown-ups can take diapers on and off. Kids in diapers don't use the potty, they just go in the diapers (you have to be willing for him to do this for a short period of time if he decides to). If he decides to be a big kid and use the potty while in a diaper, he has to get a grown-up to help him, go with him to the bathroom, take the diaper off, and put a new one on after he is done going potty like a big kid. I usually do at least 3 days in each garment before moving to the next. With your son that is what I would recommend. Day and night in diapers till he starts using the potty again (while wearing diapers), and stay in till he can use the potty for 3 days with no pee or poop in the diaper except for while asleep, then pull-ups day and night. Stay in Pull-ups till he can go 3 days keeping them dry and clean, except while asleep. Then underwear during the day and back to pull-ups at night.

NOTE: you will treat all of this just mater-of-factly and like it is completely normal for him to be back in diapers and peeing and pooping in them.
NOTE: you will NEVER force him to use the diaper, but if he wants to use the potty he has to get a grown-up since only grown-ups can take diapers off.

Since he views diapers are for "babies" and does not want them, I expect him to respond very quickly to this approach. Remember he IS toilet trained and putting him back into diapers will not change that. He may choose to use the diapers for pee and poop, but when he decides to use the toilet again it will be almost instant toilet training. This approach is however a logical consequence to him deciding he didn't want to try anymore to get all his poop in the potty. Explain to him that that obviously it shows you that he just wasn't ready for underwear and Mommy and Daddy made a mistake thinking he was. Appoligize for the mistake letting him know it is okay and he can stay in diapers as long as he needs to, it is okay with Mommy and Daddy. I fully expect that in 3 days he will be out of diapers and in 3 more days out of pull-ups, but he may decide to go a day or two in diapers before he goes back to using the potty.

One last thing to think about. He is doing this for a reason and that reason has never been addressed. This will address the behavior but not what started it in the first place. It could be as simple as him realizing he is growing up and is unsure if he is ready for that or as complicated as stress over sister going to camp and he isn't with new baby on the way (even though this started before that knowledge was known).

 

[Hillbeans]

Justhat - just saying hi

 

[justhat]

Hi Hillary!

Thanks again for the advice! I never thought I'd be talking so much about poopy pullups at this point in time!

I say he doesn't have accidents because he never does until he is in bed and he was always wearing a pullup when they happened (till this week). He has long known that pullups will hold pee/poop and has often peed in them while awake, usually in the morning before he takes it off as he would tell me he didn't need to use the potty cause he went in the pullup. My daughter always did that too though so I never cared that much about it.

We have also never made a big deal about wet pullups as my daughter has a kidney disorder and will likely be in a pullup for awhile. So because she clearly has no control over her situation, we would never say anything to either kid about accidents. We also never really say anything to him about the poopy pullups at the time because he's generally asleep by the time we know anything happened. The next day we've always asked about it, but only to say that he needs to try to get to the potty on time or call us if he needs help. We remind him of this before bed as well.

Neither kid has ever seen me sick from this pregnancy and until last week they had no idea as we never mentioned it or anything about it. With my son, I was very sick then too and the one time my daughter saw me throw up she was horrified so I made it a point to never let that happen again. Not that they still couldn't have sensed something, but my adult BIL and his GF were with us a week and didn't notice a thing, so I'm guessing my kids didn't either. Henry's also in camp everyday like his sister so he shouldn't have any resentment there. There was nothing specific in his life that changed around the time this started. Prior to this starting he never pooped after he went to bed, so it's not like he was previously leaving his bed to use the toilet and then stopped, it just seems his potty schedule has shifted later.

I know all potty issues, when a child is ready and trained anyway, are control issues of sorts, but we've been pretty laid back which is why I had no idea which way to go with it. He's never been punished or yelled at about it. The most we've done was this week when we told him no pullups (which he loves cause they have Diego on them) because he's wasting them.


Teachallday - Have you actually put a child back in diapers day and night like that? How do you know the kid won't decide they like the convenience of the diaper and just use it and scrap the potty altogether? It seems a little risky that he might just capitalize on the ease of going wherever he is and letting me clean him when it's convenient for him, assuming I could in fact get one on him that is. I don't want to create a bigger issue by mistake.

Last night I did tell him he had to wear a diaper to bed since he was not using the toilet and he refused and opted to go to bed naked. I will keep offering those 2 choices, but I can't exactly force him to wear the diaper as he can remove it himself. That is how he told us he was ready to train a year ago, he just took off the diaper as soon as we got it on him, every time. So while I could fight him to get it on, I know he'd take it off if it's not what he wants to wear. I don't see how I could get him to keep it on by telling him only grown-ups can take it off.

FWIW, when he chose to sleep without pants (as I said the diaper was a requirement for pants as I did not want to clean poopy pants) he did poop in the toilet before bed and did not go in his bed.

We will make a sticker chart today and tell him he gets a sticker for every night he uses the toilet instead of his pants/pullup/whatever he has on. We'll also be telling him the vacuum is dependent on staying clean, which should hopefully have an effect as he loves that thing. And again offering him a diaper at bedtime.

 

[teachallday]

Teachallday - Have you actually put a child back in diapers day and night like that? How do you know the kid won't decide they like the convenience of the diaper and just use it and scrap the potty altogether? It seems a little risky that he might just capitalize on the ease of going wherever he is and letting me clean him when it's convenient for him, assuming I could in fact get one on him that is. I don't want to create a bigger issue by mistake.

Last night I did tell him he had to wear a diaper to bed since he was not using the toilet and he refused and opted to go to bed naked. I will keep offering those 2 choices, but I can't exactly force him to wear the diaper as he can remove it himself. That is how he told us he was ready to train a year ago, he just took off the diaper as soon as we got it on him, every time. So while I could fight him to get it on, I know he'd take it off if it's not what he wants to wear. I don't see how I could get him to keep it on by telling him only grown-ups can take it off.

FWIW, when he chose to sleep without pants (as I said the diaper was a requirement for pants as I did not want to clean poopy pants) he did poop in the toilet before bed and did not go in his bed.

We will make a sticker chart today and tell him he gets a sticker for every night he uses the toilet instead of his pants/pullup/whatever he has on. We'll also be telling him the vacuum is dependent on staying clean, which should hopefully have an effect as he loves that thing. And again offering him a diaper at bedtime.

Yes, I have put kids back into diapers full time. Usually they will never last longer than 2 days before they want out of the diapers. The longest I have seen a previously toilet trained child last is 2 weeks before they wanted to go back to underwear. The approach tends to be very effective and quick. But it can also be effective to use other incentives if you can find the right one.

It sounds like you have a strategy that might work (the last paragraph of your post). That has a strong posibility of working for you. Try it for a week and see what happens.

As for him resisting going in diapers at night or at all, and you letting him decide to go naked instead. It sounds to me like he is in charge not you. Is he going to be happy about going into a diaper, no (even if he wants one he will resist because he knows he isn't suppose to be in diapers). It usually does not take a lot to convince a child to keep the diaper on and they are not allowed to take it off. With one kid I had to put 3 diapers on her in a row because she was tearing them off the second I finished putting them on. By the 3rd one she got the point. Yes it was a waist of 2 diapers, but she learned the lesson, and in the long run that was worth the expense of those 2 diapers. She learned that if Mommy or I said something, we would actually do it. Her protesting didn't change that fact.

My favorite was a kid (8) who put up quite a protest to being back in diapers for nighttime (bedwetting - before Goodnites), but the next morning when she woke up to a dry bed she was all exited that the bed was dry. The sopping wet diaper didn't matter to her, she was just so excited about the bed being dry. She never resisted the diapers again.

 

[justhat]

It's not that he is in charge regarding wearing a diaper, but I know when he was 20 months and decided he was done with diapers it took both my husband and I to hold him down and paste a diaper on him, and it immediately came off when we let go of him. This process was repeated over and over on a daily basis as he *needed* the diaper at that time, so it wasn't too much of an option at the time. We even put them on backwards so the tabs would be harder to reach, but that didn't deter him. After about a week of that we gave up and decided he must be ready for the toilet and he was.

So I'm just thinking that if he was like that at 20 months, at 3yo he'll be even more fiesty about it. And I'm not about to punish him for not keeping it on, and since I know he doesn't want to wear it I can't imagine him not taking it off.

The daytime diaper would be an issue as he's in camp 9-1 everyday and I really doubt they'd want to deal with that. There are diapered kids there so it's not a rule to be trained, but I can't imagine they'd want to change his diaper everyday when he's been using the toilet independently all summer. If I had to resort to that I would try it, but I really fear him just regressing and deciding life in the diaper is easier.

 

[teachallday]

Your son is a year older, so the issue will be different. He is a different kid than he was a year ago. An almost 3 year old can understand a LOT more than an almost 2 year old.

But it sounds to me that you have already decided the diapers are not really an option for you and your family. So, the focus should be on other approaches for the moment. If you are not 100% behind putting a child back into diapers, you shouldn't do it. It was just one idea of many to consider.

Like I said, it sounds like you have a strategie that should work (especially linking the vacume into the issue), try and see. Finding the right motivator is the most crital component to manipulating a child into toileting the way you want it instead of the way they want it. I am sure this developmental step will be just a little bump for you.

 

[justhat]

He is different, and does understand, but he's also more capable of taking care of himself which is why I foresee a battle if I tried to make him wear a diaper all day. Last night I gave him the option, he vehemently refused the diaper, so I let him go naked. I am sure if I tried to paste one on him there would have been many tears from him, as well as a physical battle. I don't want to make the whole issue more of a fight or traumatic, and I think making him wear the diaper against his will because I say so would make the issue more negative. If he were agreeable to it, as in me saying "Henry, you are wearing diapers now because you are choosing not to use the potty after you go to bed" and him saying "Ugh, okay", then it wouldn't be so bad.

I'm not opposed to it entirely, but I do fear what would happen if he decided they weren't so bad after all. Even if it were out of spite initially. We're cruising next month so I can't have him in diapers then because he won't be allowed in the Club so that's a big part of the diaper fear. I guess it's just the fact that there is no guarantee that he won't regress for a long time that has me hesitant.

 

[luvsmickeymouse]

He is different, and does understand, but he's also more capable of taking care of himself which is why I foresee a battle if I tried to make him wear a diaper all day. Last night I gave him the option, he vehemently refused the diaper, so I let him go naked. I am sure if I tried to paste one on him there would have been many tears from him, as well as a physical battle. I don't want to make the whole issue more of a fight or traumatic, and I think making him wear the diaper against his will because I say so would make the issue more negative. If he were agreeable to it, as in me saying "Henry, you are wearing diapers now because you are choosing not to use the potty after you go to bed" and him saying "Ugh, okay", then it wouldn't be so bad.

I'm not opposed to it entirely, but I do fear what would happen if he decided they weren't so bad after all. Even if it were out of spite initially. We're cruising next month so I can't have him in diapers then because he won't be allowed in the Club so that's a big part of the diaper fear. I guess it's just the fact that there is no guarantee that he won't regress for a long time that has me hesitant.

I am with you on this. I wouldn't put him back in diapers either. You gave him the option and he chose not to wear one and no accidents. I love what you wrote about him loving the vacumn. You can certainly use it as a reward. He sounds very independent.

 

[mommy2theAteam]

We have started PT-ing with our twin boys, who are at this time 27 months old (they've been potty training for a month). So your comment about the expense of going thru 2 Pull-ups per night was funny to me, because I have a much greater expense in Pull-ups for Pt-ing 2 of them at once! So far, it's not going as well as I'd like. They will pee if you put them on the potty, but do not poop in the potty at all. And they do not tell you when they need to pee, so if you don't happen to make it in time to the potty, then they pee in their pull-up. I was hoping to have them potty trained, at least for pee-ing, by the time we go to WDW in Nov over T-giving.

As for your son, it's probably a control thing. Sounds crazy even though he's going all on his own during the day, but it could very well be true. Our oldest potty trained really easy for peeing and would poop even while at day care, but just WOULD NOT poop at home - he'd always go in his pull-up, especially at night. It took us a year to get him trained for #2 at home. We finally did it by keeping track of his successes and bribing him with new items for his Thomas the Train set.

--Kim in MI

 

[justhat]

Ha, yes! With 2 of them I am sure you're going through more pullups than me! Well, my daughter wears them so maybe we're even.

We did have another successful night. He pooped in the potty before bed and then wanted his pullup, but I told him he needs to fill up his sticker chart with dry nights before he gets his pullup back. He again declined the diaper and is therefore sleeping in just a shirt again. I made the sticker chart on the small side so it doesn't get frustrating to fill, and I figured I can always make a 2nd one if I need to.

Yes, he is very independent, which I always just sort of thought was because he is the 2nd kid and constantly wants to do whatever his big sister can, but I'm sure a lot of it is just his personality too. And he loves to clean, it's so weird. He literally spends his day sweeping, vacuuming, dusting, etc. It's so strange to me cause his sister has no interest in that stuff, never has, but I think it's part of his desire to be "big" cause he knows I do those things.