American Airlines controversy

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

1) A sad world is just a fact if everyone was as all for themselves as you appear to be

Give me a break.

2) there are flight attendants whose job it is to assist their passengers and people should expect them to do it

A flight attendant may be able to offer help if they can, if they are able to but not they are not a servant and a passenger who expects a flight attendant to help them is likely going to come off as entitled, can you imagine when passengers are boarding the plane and someone is having just a wee bit of trouble getting that suitcase up into the overhead bin so that passenger said to a flight attendant "do your job and help me I expect this you know why didn't you offer me help?"..yeah like that's going to go over well. Now I'm sure if a flight attendant would offer help if they were able to but they aren't always readily available to do so.

This is just my experience for sure but I rarely see a flight attendant pick up someone's carry on and put it in the overhead bin if someone is struggling with it. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen I just have rarely seen it;usually the flight attendant is busy doing something else. I've seen flight attendants adjust where bags are in the overhead bin that's for sure but not usually do I see them lifting the bag up specifically to aide another passenger. Again just my experience.

3) I hope the next time you need some compassion from a bystander, they tell you to deal with it in your own.

Why do people need to say "I hope next time, I hope you, etc" to get their point across. You don't sound like a very compassionate and helpful person right now wishing bad things on me..
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Here's your issue- you are confusing treating a person like the grown adult like they are with lack of compassion (which by the way why does the DIS always jump to using the word compassion). Offering to help a person is awesome and I do that all the time (holding doors for people, saying my please and thank you all the time even when a situation doesn't call for it, I've helped my friend and my mother out financially for half my life, etc) BUT that doesn't mean that the people around me expect my help. That is the difference. If the mom walked onto the plane expecting everyone to just help her out that is what I would have a problem with, not the random passenger who says "hey let me get that for you" but if the mom had this expectation. My response was framed when it was commented about "why did no one offer to help"

Do you personally go into every situation thinking someone will swoop in and help? I bet not. And that's exactly what I meant. Someone offering help is different than expecting help. As adults you are in charge of things yourself rather than a minor who their parent/guardian is still responsible for them. But like I said you decided to put my words into a blender and mix it up.

 

[Hikergirl]

That's how things always go here. Many posters seem to view the party with authority (in this case the airline) as always automatically being right. You must quickly and silently comply or anything that happens is your fault.
There's also a big lack of compassion and empathy on this board. People here are perfect. They handle ever situation perfectly.

Oh please.
In this case the airline has a plane full of people to get boarded and off the ground. Ever fly out of SFO? There is a long line of planes waiting, so yes it is important to get things done, fast and right.
In this case a woman was trying to bring on something that wasn't allowed on, and its safe to assume that it was due to the size of the item. So yes everything started with her. But she does have some responsibiltiy in this. I don't believe anyone here has said that excuses the behavior of the FA.
But we should just let her take it, maybe they should have let her just leave it in the aisle during the flight. Afterall, she's a mom of twins and the other people on board are just regular people. We should just say screw the FA's and their dumb rules, we don't like them so we shouldn't have to "silently comply". Lets stamp our feet and hold our breath until we get our way.

And you are right I lack compassion and empathy because I think the woman should have checked one of her 2 strollers and just sat down so all those other people could get to their destinations.
What I love about threads like this is you can really get to know how people are.
I'd hate to be on a plane with some of you that is for sure, last thing I want to deal with when I fly is some passengers who don't think the rules apply just because they don't like them or think they are stupid. Make a scene, not take responsibility for themselves and expect everyone else to come to their rescue. Nope, please sit down and be quiet the rest of us just want to get to where we are going. Save your protests for the streets.

 

[mummabear]

I'm with you on these points.

I don't understand the rush to judgement here on this lady. "Look how much stuff she had", "what a criminal, trying to get one over with that stroller", "Why didn't she just drive", "Bring a companion next time", etc.

The only facts we have are a hysterical woman, a stroller, an angry passenger, a plane, and a FA who loses control of his emotions.

I don't know why everyone is hypothesizing all the ways that that woman must have been in the wrong. It's a little strange. Like it would rock someone's world if the airline somehow made a mistake. It would be just fine if it wasn't really the lady's fault at all. You don't have to assume and create "facts" to make it so. And we likely will never know exactly what happened between the lady and the FA. All we have is conflicting reports. You can't site one without siting another.

The only judgement I make is in regards to how the FA handles the confrontation with the angry passenger. Those actions are on tape. No hypothesizing needed.

I have seen a lot of anger towards this woman and a general how dare she travel alone with twins, how dare she bring so much stuff etc
I find it curious that there is seemingly such a large group of anti children posters here

Give me a break.

A flight attendant may be able to offer help if they can, if they are able to but not they are not a servant and a passenger who expects a flight attendant to help them is likely going to come off as entitled, can you imagine when passengers are boarding the plane and someone is having just a wee bit of trouble getting that suitcase up into the overhead bin so that passenger said to a flight attendant "do your job and help me I expect this you know why didn't you offer me help?"..yeah like that's going to go over well. Now I'm sure if a flight attendant would offer help if they were able to but they aren't always readily available to do so.

This is just my experience for sure but I rarely see a flight attendant pick up someone's carry on and put it in the overhead bin if someone is struggling with it. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen I just have rarely seen it;usually the flight attendant is busy doing something else. I've seen flight attendants adjust where bags are in the overhead bin that's for sure but not usually do I see them lifting the bag up specifically to aide another passenger. Again just my experience.

Why do people need to say "I hope next time, I hope you, etc" to get their point across. You don't sound like a very compassionate and helpful person right now wishing bad things on me..
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Here's your issue- you are confusing treating a person like the grown adult like they are with lack of compassion (which by the way why does the DIS always jump to using the word compassion). Offering to help a person is awesome and I do that all the time (holding doors for people, saying my please and thank you all the time even when a situation doesn't call for it, I've helped my friend and my mother out financially for half my life, etc) BUT that doesn't mean that the people around me expect my help. That is the difference. If the mom walked onto the plane expecting everyone to just help her out that is what I would have a problem with, not the random passenger who says "hey let me get that for you" but if the mom had this expectation. My response was framed when it was commented about "why did no one offer to help"

Do you personally go into every situation thinking someone will swoop in and help? I bet not. And that's exactly what I meant. Someone offering help is different than expecting help. As adults you are in charge of things yourself rather than a minor who their parent/guardian is still responsible for them. But like I said you decided to put my words into a blender and mix it up.

There is a big difference between saying "do your job and help me" and asking the FA to help you- just because you expect something from someone (in a professional setting) doesn't make you entitled in the way you are implying. Are you entitled because you expect your barista to make your coffee? Part of a FA role is to assist passengers.

And you are right I lack compassion and empathy because I think the woman should have checked one of her 2 strollers and just sat down so all those other people could get to their destinations.

I totally agree her strollers should have been gate checked, it seems even disregarding this drama it would have been easier to get her stuff to her seat, she was dragging one behind her from what I have read, I would have been easier to not have to deal with it.

But we don't know what the discussion with the FA was, maybe she had some stuff still in it she needed and just needed a chance to put the kids down and get it out.
Some airlines also don't give you the stroller back at the gate and you don't get it until luggage claim.

I think almost everyone agrees that she should have handed over the stroller-but there are several posters who seem to think she had no right to fly with twins in the first place.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

There is a big difference between saying "do your job and help me" and asking the FA to help you- just because you expect something from someone (in a professional setting) doesn't make you entitled in the way you are implying. Are you entitled because you expect your barista to make your coffee? Part of a FA role is to assist passengers.

Actually you did say: "there are flight attendants whose job it is to assist their passengers and people should expect them to do it" That comes off in a more negative way though apologies if that was just my interpretation and you didn't mean it that way.

As I said though flight attendants aren't always readily available and they aren't able to give each and every passenger assistance..that is unrealistic to think that especially with the very large planes. That was really my whole point. Sure a flight attendant will likely help you if they can but it's not always possible. Expecting (as you said you people should expect) is completely different. I'm not one to think in my head "gee I'm struggling with my suitcase where is that flight attendant at so she can help me you know I expect her to help me because you know it's her job" even if in my head I say it in the nicest way possible. If a flight attendant were near me and offered help that's great that's awesome but if they aren't well I've got to figure out how to help myself. A passenger may or may not step in and help me. I guess I go into the situation understanding that the only thing I can control is my ability to get the suitcase or not get the suitcase in the overhead bin..everything else is gravy in my book.

As for the your barista example...I would expect them to make my coffee sure but I wouldn't expect them to help me get the lid on or off, I wouldn't expect them to carry the coffee to the table for example if my hands are full- if they can that's great. Those are a bit more in-line with the topic of offering help with luggage, stroller, etc on a plane in regards to the flight attendant.

Similarly I do expect the flight attendants to give me safety instructions as their main job on a plane is to ensure the safety of passengers and I would assume the main job for a barista is making someone's coffee though I will say I don't know that one for sure. Both the barista and the flight attendant are in the customer service industry so yes they are in the business of helping out people but I'm sure as heck not going to fault the barista if she doesn't have the opportunity or just plain doesn't help me get the coffee to a table if my hands are full and I won't fault the flight attendant either if they can't help me with my suitcase.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

A flight attendant may be able to offer help if they can, if they are able to but not they are not a servant and a passenger who expects a flight attendant to help them is likely going to come off as entitled

As someone who works in an industry that centers around selling software to customers and supporting those customers, saying "that't not my job" is not acceptable by management. The fact that the airline industry doesn't have this same type of attitude is, in my opinion, the problem. People pay a lot of money to be inconvenienced by the TSA, cancellations, delays, overbooking, when all they are trying to do is get from point A to point B. If airlines are not interested in helping their customers achieve their goal of moving from one place to another, maybe we should all just drive.

 

[Westcoastwild]

Give me a break.

A flight attendant may be able to offer help if they can, if they are able to but not they are not a servant and a passenger who expects a flight attendant to help them is likely going to come off as entitled, can you imagine when passengers are boarding the plane and someone is having just a wee bit of trouble getting that suitcase up into the overhead bin so that passenger said to a flight attendant "do your job and help me I expect this you know why didn't you offer me help?"..yeah like that's going to go over well. Now I'm sure if a flight attendant would offer help if they were able to but they aren't always readily available to do so.

This is just my experience for sure but I rarely see a flight attendant pick up someone's carry on and put it in the overhead bin if someone is struggling with it. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen I just have rarely seen it;usually the flight attendant is busy doing something else. I've seen flight attendants adjust where bags are in the overhead bin that's for sure but not usually do I see them lifting the bag up specifically to aide another passenger. Again just my experience.

Why do people need to say "I hope next time, I hope you, etc" to get their point across. You don't sound like a very compassionate and helpful person right now wishing bad things on me..
__
Here's your issue- you are confusing treating a person like the grown adult like they are with lack of compassion (which by the way why does the DIS always jump to using the word compassion). Offering to help a person is awesome and I do that all the time (holding doors for people, saying my please and thank you all the time even when a situation doesn't call for it, I've helped my friend and my mother out financially for half my life, etc) BUT that doesn't mean that the people around me expect my help. That is the difference. If the mom walked onto the plane expecting everyone to just help her out that is what I would have a problem with, not the random passenger who says "hey let me get that for you" but if the mom had this expectation. My response was framed when it was commented about "why did no one offer to help"

Do you personally go into every situation thinking someone will swoop in and help? I bet not. And that's exactly what I meant. Someone offering help is different than expecting help. As adults you are in charge of things yourself rather than a minor who their parent/guardian is still responsible for them. But like I said you decided to put my words into a blender and mix it up.

EXACTLY. It's nice to hold a door open or have someone else do that for you. But you can't go into the situation expecting that. You've got to be able to manage your luggage yourself. If that is literally not possible, you need to make it possible. Either by packing less or getting someone to travel with you or just checking your bag. I expect other adults to be adults. I don't get this constant refrain of "have some compassion".

I've had some people offer to help me and, yes, I took them up on it. And you know why it was awesome? Because I wasn't expecting it.

 

[fly girl]

Well I already jumped in on the Delta thread, might as well add my 2 cents as a retired FA into this debacle too.

1. The lady was not hit on head with stroller. Saw her lawyer on Today Show and he admitted she wasn't hit.

2. From accounts I've read that stroller had a gate check tag. Why the FA at the boarding door let her go on with it even if it didn't have a tag idk, because strollers (even the cheap umbrella ones) are a pain in the butt to store in the cabin. Just gate check it, it's easier and you can't use the stroller onboard anyway.

3. IMHO of interacting with hundreds of thousands of passengers for 20 years, her crying was over the top. Naturally she was stressed out, but this struck me as phony. Could I be wrong, sure. But that's my perception.

4. The first class passenger was out of line. The Disers know the term, "not my monkeys, not my circus." This guy didn't, and tried to be a big shot. Sit down, you're only adding to the drama.

5. Yes, the pointing and bring it on attitude by the FA was bad. He did not hold his composure. You can't do that.
Period.


So to me, it all boils down to this -- all three (FA/Mom/First Class guy) contributed to this mess. You can't peg it solely on 1 person.

Mom, you got $1000 and first class int'l seats going home. The issue was taken care of, be done with it.

First Class guy, you had your 3 seconds of attempted chivalry. Sit down. I was over you the first time you got up and asked for his name.

FA, you lost your cool. You can't do that. Yes, you were pushed to limits and you are human. However, you are representing your company and you failed ... big time. Should you be fired? Idk, do you have a track record of this type of behavior? If no priors, maybe an anger management class and probation period is in order. Prior incidents, I'm sorry this job isn't a correct fit for you.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

As someone who works in an industry that centers around selling software to customers and supporting those customers, saying "that't not my job" is not acceptable by management. The fact that the airline industry doesn't have this same type of attitude is, in my opinion, the problem. People pay a lot of money to be inconvenienced by the TSA, cancellations, delays, overbooking, when all they are trying to do is get from point A to point B. If airlines are not interested in helping their customers achieve their goal of moving from one place to another, maybe we should all just drive.

I don't think an FA would be praised for telling a passenger who needed assistance "that's not my job" but I don't think a passenger would be praised either if they said "well aren't you going to help me you know it is part of your job"..even if you say that nicely it still isn't going to come across well.

Some people (and I'm really just speaking in a generality here) think that because a person is in a certain position or certain industry that they are supposed to do everything for them by virtue of being in that position or industry.

Having worked retail in the past it's astounding the amount of times people take on an attitude of thinking a person is supposed to wait hand and foot on you simply because you work in customer service. Sometimes...I know it's crazy...things really aren't a person's job (speaking in generalities here).

As for your other stuff about the airline industry I've got no comment really just speaking in regards to the "not my job" part for FAs.

 

[bcla]

EXACTLY. It's nice to hold a door open or have someone else do that for you. But you can't go into the situation expecting that. You've got to be able to manage your luggage yourself. If that is literally not possible, you need to make it possible. Either by packing less or getting someone to travel with you or just checking your bag. I expect other adults to be adults. I don't get this constant refrain of "have some compassion".

I've had some people offer to help me and, yes, I took them up on it. And you know why it was awesome? Because I wasn't expecting it.

The problem I have sometimes is a sense of entitlement as if someone was owed it as part of the service. I saw it with a woman riding Amtrak. She was a bit large, but I don't know if she was looking for sympathy. However, she had a large piece of luggage, a couple of shopping bags, and her kid had a kiddie roller and a stroller. This station was on a curve so there was a gap in the platform. This was really more of a commuter train, and the station itself didn't have any personnel to help with baggage. As far as I could tell, she was able to do all of that stuff herself, but as soon as she got to boarding the train, she wanted someone to help her get it on board. She was yelling at a conductor "I need some help!" The conductor just motioned at her to get everything on herself. It wasn't really even all that difficult as she just lifted everything one at a time.

There's kind of an unofficial rule on Amtrak that if you can manage to get stuff on board without any help and it fits somewhere, they're not going to stick the passenger with a strict adherence to published carryon limits. But if you need help and aren't specifically disabled, nobody is going to help you because it's not generally their job to be baggage porters.

 

[Westcoastwild]

The problem I have sometimes is a sense of entitlement as if someone was owed it as part of the service. I saw it with a woman riding Amtrak. She was a bit large, but I don't know if she was looking for sympathy. However, she had a large piece of luggage, a couple of shopping bags, and her kid had a kiddie roller and a stroller. This station was on a curve so there was a gap in the platform. This was really more of a commuter train, and the station itself didn't have any personnel to help with baggage. As far as I could tell, she was able to do all of that stuff herself, but as soon as she got to boarding the train, she wanted someone to help her get it on board. She was yelling at a conductor "I need some help!" The conductor just motioned at her to get everything on herself. It wasn't really even all that difficult as she just lifted everything one at a time.

There's kind of an unofficial rule on Amtrak that if you can manage to get stuff on board without any help and it fits somewhere, they're not going to stick the passenger with a strict adherence to published carryon limits. But if you need help and aren't specifically disabled, nobody is going to help you because it's not generally their job to be baggage porters.

Right, lol. I think I mentioned the American family on the german train. They apparently thought first class came with porter assistance. That's why they packed that much. They were outraged that no one was around to help them with their bags...even though when you BUY YOUR TICKET, the train company makes it very clear what is included in the price of the ticket. As far as I could tell, they were basing their whole train expectations not on real things but on vintage cinema.

I mean nice enough folks, and I chatted with them for a while because I like to know how others travel. But still, how do you manage to book a whole trip on some kind of fantasy you have without ever once actually coming into contact with reality I hope they had a good trip but I'm thinking best case scenario, they had an "educational" trip.

 

[sunshinehighway]

As someone who works in an industry that centers around selling software to customers and supporting those customers, saying "that't not my job" is not acceptable by management. The fact that the airline industry doesn't have this same type of attitude is, in my opinion, the problem. People pay a lot of money to be inconvenienced by the TSA, cancellations, delays, overbooking, when all they are trying to do is get from point A to point B. If airlines are not interested in helping their customers achieve their goal of moving from one place to another, maybe we should all just drive.

I'm not really sure what's going on but I don't think I posted what you quoted. When I click the quote to go back to the original post it takes me to something completely different.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

I don't think an FA would be praised for telling a passenger who needed assistance "that's not my job" but I don't think a passenger would be praised either if they said "well aren't you going to help me you know it is part of your job"..even if you say that nicely it still isn't going to come across well.

Some people (and I'm really just speaking in a generality here) think that because a person is in a certain position or certain industry that they are supposed to do everything for them by virtue of being in that position or industry.

Those are both excellent points.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

I'm not really sure what's going on but I don't think I posted what you quoted. When I click the quote to go back to the original post it takes me to something completely different.

It was from Mackenzie Click-Mickelson. Not sure what happened there.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I'm not really sure what's going on but I don't think I posted what you quoted. When I click the quote to go back to the original post it takes me to something completely different.

It was from Mackenzie Click-Mickelson. Not sure what happened there.

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I actually had that happen to me two days ago on this thread exactly what @sunshinehighway described. It's happened before in the past for me. IDK what causes it though maybe an error in multi-quoting oops?? IDK either way it's strange when it happens.