Almost buying in...what is more important? Cost or Location?

[tor]

You make my point. You could care less about operating costs associated with your home resort, and that’s fine, as long as you pay for it. Energy costs in the future are going to skyrocket. You may think it’s “delusional” for businesses to operate efficiently, Disney has been, and will be in the future looking for ways to reduce energy consumption….

The Walt Disney Company

Walt Disney World Resort in Orlando, Fla., is among the most highly visited places on earth. Its "campus" consists of hundreds of buildings that include world-class hotel and conference centers, exotic ride environments, and precisely controlled spaces for horticulture and animal care.

In addition to a Wall-Street eye on the bottom line, Walt Disney himself encoded the company's DNA with an ethic toward conserving natural resources and the environment that remains to this day as a program called Environmentality. Environmentality is a way of thinking, acting, and doing business in an environmentally conscientious way--from saving energy and water to reducing waste and emissions.

At Disney, energy is paramount. Air-conditioning, refrigeration, compressed-air, and water-moving systems for buildings, rides, and transportation run primarily on electricity and natural gas. To maximize energy conservation and efficiency while minimizing costs and emissions, Walt Disney World has implemented a state-of-the-art energy-management program (EMP) that can serve as a role model to owners and administrators of public and private facilities.

To effectively track and manage energy at these facilities, Disney developed an innovative intranet-based computer program called the Utility Reporting System (URS). This system publishes utility and submetering data on Disney's intranet system and tracks the results from energy savings efforts. By publishing performance data, the URS continuously "shines a light" on utility usage at each facility and allows similar facilities to be compared to each other. Since no facility wants to be at the bottom of the list, the system helps drive continuous improvement at the facility level.

Information and reports generated by the URS help Disney's energy managers identify areas that need improvement. When a facility is not performing as expected, Building Tune-up (BTU) Teams are formed from Engineering and Operations to review the building and energy management systems control devices, programming, and settings.

Disney estimates that its URS has facilitated a 5-20 percent reduction in utility usage and ensures that all building systems are operating at peak energy performance.

Wrong I do care about the operating costs of my home resort because I pay for it where I'm not really concerned is the operating costs of your home because I don't pay for it. Disney also does not pay for the operating costs of DVC so it has no effect on their bottom line. Your prediction that energy cost will go up in the future is a very bold move. I predict that most thing we buy will go up in price as time goes by. You may even be correct that prices skyrocket in the short term but as prices go up so does the desire to use alternatives like nuclear, ethanol and solar.

The fact that Disney tries to conserve and preserve resources is not a surprise to me. It is in there annual report and the have always tried to make the largest profit on the smallest expense after all they are not operated like an airline.

Now the part of your energy policy I find to be delusional is that you figure big lobby with a lot of people the whole place must be energy expensive. Did you consider that the BWV and other similar resorts have less exposure to the elements than OKW because most units in BWV have only one outside wall and the cooling loss is through the non outside walls is into another climate controlled space and thereby not a loss. Did your calculations include the fact that the room sizes at OKW are nearly double and therefore require more energy to cool. What effect did pumping water throughout the great distances of OKW have on your calculation. How did the fact that you need more buses driving more miles to pick up passengers factor in. Did you consider the fact that OKW has many small heat pumps that are more inefficient than the BWV one large chiller that seldom needs to start and stop or run at full speed included in this same line is the one large efficient boiler at BWV verses the small water heaters of a spread out resort?? And lets not forget it does take oil to make blacktop for roads

 

[No1HawkFan]

Where is Cindy? This started with "Almost buying in..........." and just wondering what Cindy decided. My guess she has forgotten all about the Disney Vacation Club and has moved on.

Now she is wondering if she should get HDTV Plasma or HDTV LCD or maybe it is Ford Explorer vs. Toyota 4Runner.

I also agree with Tor from Long Island. People change their mind all the time. You will buy into the Beach Club and then the first time you stay there you find there are 868 kids in the pool and you wished you were at Old Key West so you could actually relax on your vacation.

Although I just checked the sponsors site and notice OKW350-10-1228 is now Sale Pending and maybe that has Cindy's name all over it. If so, enjoy the points Cindy.

 

[jade1]

Cooling internal halls? When all the rooms around a hall are cold, it takes little effort to regulate the hall, and the lobbies are already there for the "hotel" portion of the resort anyway. OKW has a seperate building and lobby all of its own to cool-plus wont the "larger" rooms cost more to cool? Also opening external doors to rooms is much less efficient than opening internal doors when its 95 degrees and humid, or 30 below-we know we invented malls because of these reasons.

If WDW wants to conserve energy, maybe they could actually put walls on some of its air conditioned restaurants like Tomorrowland Terrace, or CR where the monorail comes in, even close the doors on the Mainstreet shops instead of cooling the pavement would be a good start.

 

[DVCPAT]

Wrong I do care about the operating costs of my home resort because I pay for it where I'm not really concerned is the operating costs of your home because I don't pay for it. Disney also does not pay for the operating costs of DVC so it has no effect on their bottom line. Your prediction that energy cost will go up in the future is a very bold move. I predict that most thing we buy will go up in price as time goes by. You may even be correct that prices skyrocket in the short term but as prices go up so does the desire to use alternatives like nuclear, ethanol and solar.

The fact that Disney tries to conserve and preserve resources is not a surprise to me. It is in there annual report and the have always tried to make the largest profit on the smallest expense after all they are not operated like an airline.

Now the part of your energy policy I find to be delusional is that you figure big lobby with a lot of people the whole place must be energy expensive. Did you consider that the BWV and other similar resorts have less exposure to the elements than OKW because most units in BWV have only one outside wall and the cooling loss is through the non outside walls is into another climate controlled space and thereby not a loss. Did your calculations include the fact that the room sizes at OKW are nearly double and therefore require more energy to cool. What effect did pumping water throughout the great distances of OKW have on your calculation. How did the fact that you need more buses driving more miles to pick up passengers factor in. Did you consider the fact that OKW has many small heat pumps that are more inefficient than the BWV one large chiller that seldom needs to start and stop or run at full speed included in this same line is the one large efficient boiler at BWV verses the small water heaters of a spread out resort?? And lets not forget it does take oil to make blacktop for roads

You do agree with me when you say “I do care about the operating costs of my home resort because I pay for it where I'm not really concerned is the operating costs of your home because I don't pay for it”. I think most people have this outlook, so what better way to improve efficiency than make members only stay where they own. I’m not saying this will happen, but if energy prices continue to rise, I think it would be the most balanced and fair way to lower costs.

Disney does pay a portion of the energy bill at all split resorts. The lobby and check in area are shared between the hotel and DVC. The hotel type resorts are attractions in it self. A lot of people visit the resorts and open the door when they enter, then open the door again when they leave. The lobby areas and corridors are not sealed like refrigerator doors, a lot of energy is lost which costs money.

Water is usually stored in elevated tanks, which are gravity feed to the outlets. This design provides enough water at peak usage times (morning) and ensures everyone will have water if a power outage occurs.

 

[Plutofan]

Personally, I can't see where Sarastoga will be a hot resale item at anytime, now or in the future.

There will be thousands of owners. Desperate sellers will drop the price and dictate the value. I'm sure DVC won't be buying back too many Saratoga listings (ROFR) based on the gripes everyone is making about location, buses, etc.

I'd rather own a sure thing for 12 less years. Jusy MHO. Just check out the current resale prices on Beach Club or Wilderness Lodge vs Saratoga.

First Wave

Comparing Saratoga to BC or WLV re-sales is like comparing apples to oranges. BC and WLV are much smaller resorts which are sold out while Disney is still selling Saratoga. Since they are much smaller resorts the law of supply and demand dictates a higher price. Also the re-sale prices were kept low since Disney was offering SSR for $83.30 per point and now it is $90 per point so the re-sale price will probably go up. If Disney discounted BC and WLV by 15% I would think that the re-sale price would go down during the promotion. But at some point SSR will have a higher price than BC and WLV. It maybe a lot of years in the future but at some point no one will pay a higher price for 5 years of vaction versus 17. Remember this is a prepaid vaction plan not an ownership.

 

[jade1]

I really don't get this notion of you have to buy into the resort you want to stay at people change their cars every four years or sooner they move every 7 years and look at the divorce rate so a lot are changing wives but you can pick the one and only resort you will want to stay at the next fifty years give me a break
The one thing for sure is that in 2043 all you BWV BCV and other first round resorts are gonna be looking for a place to stay

This reasoning is exactly why you should buy where you want to stay. If you plan on changing in 7 years because new resorts come out (like your car or moving example), I would hope you maximized your current expectations. When new resorts start coming out like CRV, many owners will sell and buy there or VAK for example. It would also be nice to be selling a high demand resort at that point that has created a nice return (like 50% in 4 years like BCV has).

P.S. A lot are "changing" husbands to.

 

[CindyTx]

Where is Cindy? This started with "Almost buying in..........." and just wondering what Cindy decided. My guess she has forgotten all about the Disney Vacation Club and has moved on.

Now she is wondering if she should get HDTV Plasma or HDTV LCD or maybe it is Ford Explorer vs. Toyota 4Runner.

I also agree with Tor from Long Island. People change their mind all the time. You will buy into the Beach Club and then the first time you stay there you find there are 868 kids in the pool and you wished you were at Old Key West so you could actually relax on your vacation.

Although I just checked the sponsors site and notice OKW350-10-1228 is now Sale Pending and maybe that has Cindy's name all over it. If so, enjoy the points Cindy.

I pretty much have it narrowed down to Boardwalk...although Beach Club looks nice too. I think we want a site that is linked to a hotel (with restaurants, action etc.); we also might save points and occasionally go for a three bedroom villa to go with friends so BWV seems to make the most sense for us.

Now I am just waiting for the right listing to buy....but I will do it this week. I will let you know!

I am trying to decide if I should buy one big contract with many points or two smaller contracts (better for resale if we had to; but double the closing costs). There is much to be considered...and I appreciate all the input from everyone.

Wish me luck!

 

[No1HawkFan]

Right idea about buying two smaller contracts vs. one big contract. You are also correct about the closing costs unless one seller is selling two small point listings then you get the points you want, two different deeds and only one closing cost.

Not sure where are you buying from, however, the sponsor has two listings of 150 at the Boardwalk with a September use year. I am willing to bet they are from the same seller. If you are not looking to use the points until 2007 those are great contracts.

Anyway glad you reappeared and good luck this week!!!

 

[tor]

You do agree with me when you say “I do care about the operating costs of my home resort because I pay for it where I'm not really concerned is the operating costs of your home because I don't pay for it”. I think most people have this outlook, so what better way to improve efficiency than make members only stay where they own. I’m not saying this will happen, but if energy prices continue to rise, I think it would be the most balanced and fair way to lower costs.

Disney does pay a portion of the energy bill at all split resorts. The lobby and check in area are shared between the hotel and DVC. The hotel type resorts are attractions in it self. A lot of people visit the resorts and open the door when they enter, then open the door again when they leave. The lobby areas and corridors are not sealed like refrigerator doors, a lot of energy is lost which costs money.

Water is usually stored in elevated tanks, which are gravity feed to the outlets. This design provides enough water at peak usage times (morning) and ensures everyone will have water if a power outage occurs.

I agree that owners take better care of their properties than others do but lets not forget that part of the sales pitch was being able to swap and the only time i was warned of not being able to swap was in the papers for SS

Yes doors are open and closed at BWV and BCV but I hate to tell you last time I stayed ar OKW I opened and closed the door as I have not yet learned to walk thru walls yet Must be something they teach owners at those resorts
I agree more people visit these hotels because they are attractions MONEY generating attractions that more then offset higher costs of the door openings By the way did you happen to notice space mountain, its a small world and other rides are air conditioned and they don't even have doors??? Maybe it is more efficient when the doors arent opening and closing

It is very observant of you to notice those elevated tanks for storing water but perhaps if you looked a little lower down you might have noticed those funny things at the bottom called pumps that gets the water up there or maybe they just have water that likes to climb into tanks by itself

 

[tor]

I would hope you maximized your current expectations. When new resorts start coming out like CRV, many owners will sell and buy there or VAK for example. It would also be nice to be selling a high demand resort at that point that has created a nice return (like 50% in 4 years like BCV has).

Could be a career in this making 50% every four years I wouldn't bet on it to continue and the BWV has kept up with BCV a little behind but the buy in was less when I bought BWV

 

[paslea_pooh]

Why spread this paranoia? What possible motive would DVC have to rescind these booking rights? Do you really believe they will do this? If not why post it. We would all love to hear your reasons fro DVC rescinding this right. To the OP, DVC isn't going to rewrite the entire program to end the 7-11 month windows. It is costly and it would generate bad press. Also, how would anyone looking to buy into new DVC offerings trust DVC? Who knows what else they would change. It is all about money and there is no reason to change a program that works. If you must have an Epcot Resort during F&W Fest. then consider an Epcot Resort. That is the only reason for not buying SSR. Lets do some simple math here. 12 years is huge folks, it is a 1/4 of the contract extra when buying SSR. To make the numbers easy lets assume a $20,000 buy in at SSR. $20,000 divided by 48 years of use is $416.66 a year not counting annual dues. Now lets assume the same $20,000 buy in at an older DVC Resort with 36 years of use: $555.55 per year it cost you. That is $138.89 more to own a resort with 12 less use years. Throw in the fact that SSR has the lowest dues and it is a no brainer. Booking at 7 months is a piece of cake. I've never been denied and besides lets face it, staying at any of the resorts is hardly a fate worse than death. For the real parnoid, book your home at 11 months to be safe. At 7 months switch to your resort of choice.


DAVE

Awesome Post Dave !!!

 

[DVCPAT]

I agree that owners take better care of their properties than others do but lets not forget that part of the sales pitch was being able to swap and the only time i was warned of not being able to swap was in the papers for SS

Yes doors are open and closed at BWV and BCV but I hate to tell you last time I stayed ar OKW I opened and closed the door as I have not yet learned to walk thru walls yet Must be something they teach owners at those resorts
I agree more people visit these hotels because they are attractions MONEY generating attractions that more then offset higher costs of the door openings By the way did you happen to notice space mountain, its a small world and other rides are air conditioned and they don't even have doors??? Maybe it is more efficient when the doors arent opening and closing

It is very observant of you to notice those elevated tanks for storing water but perhaps if you looked a little lower down you might have noticed those funny things at the bottom called pumps that gets the water up there or maybe they just have water that likes to climb into tanks by itself

I find it interesting you were actually warned you could lose the privilege of reserving other DVC resorts from Disney and you seem to believe it’s impossible?

Have you ever noticed Disney charges less for value and moderate resorts which have rooms without corridors? It could be due to fact that they are less expensive to operate and maintain. I could be wrong though, Disney could have this whole resort structure backwards.

Yes, I do know the water is pumped into the storage tank. The distance from the pump to the tank never changes. It flows back downward via gravity, so your assumption it takes energy to push the water through the long distances at OKW is wrong.

 

[Daitcher]

Awesome Post Dave !!!

Hey, Thank you very much!

DAVE

 

[Daitcher]

One reason might be future escalating energy costs. Owners of OKW and SSR will have a significant advantage of lower operating costs. It costs a fortune to keep the busy BWV/BCV/VWL lobby areas and inside corridors at preset temperatures.

If energy costs continue to skyrocket, I think it would be fair to have members only book into sister DVC resorts that operate at comparable costs. For example, OKW and SSR are condo style resorts that have similar operating costs. The Hotel style DVC resorts could be in a separate higher dues category.

Good thoughts here but it won't happen. I truly am baffled at people buying into a program when they feel the program would be completely changed. All these speculations are just that, speculation. DVC isn't going to risk the great reputation they have by completely reworking the program. We will all be able to book and stay at other resorts for the duration of DVC. If not you'll see "mutiny on the ship". I'll stake what little reputation I have on it.

DAVE

 

[DVCPAT]

Good thoughts here but it won't happen. I truly am baffled at people buying into a program when they feel the program would be completely changed. All these speculations are just that, speculation. DVC isn't going to risk the great reputation they have by completely reworking the program. We will all be able to book and stay at other resorts for the duration of DVC. If not you'll see "mutiny on the ship". I'll stake what little reputation I have on it.

DAVE

You’re probably right. Disney does reserve the right to do it, but why would they? The only issue that comes to mind would be financial reasons that impact both Disney and DVC members. Not to get political, but Iran could have a serious impact on future energy prices. I think Disney still has the ability to produce electricity from an on-site power plant, so they have an alternative if prices skyrocket.

 

[jade1]

If energy costs continue to skyrocket, I think it would be fair to have members only book into sister DVC resorts that operate at comparable costs. For example, OKW and SSR are condo style resorts that have similar operating costs. The Hotel style DVC resorts could be in a separate higher dues category.

I agree with this and think it should be implemented today.