Airlines - charging extra for EVERYTHING??

[CarolA]

For all the complaining on here, we have NO one to blame but ourselves.

I read every day on this board how $200 is "too expensive" for a round trip to Disney. Well, the airlines are bleeding red ink. JetBlue lost money last quarter. All of the old majors are losing money. Even SW is seeing less profit.

So, if we won't pay what it costs to fly us the airlines are trying to get creative. And at least some of these are "optional" You don't have to buy food or drink, you don't have to "pick your seat" etc.. It's a choice you make.

I fly both cheap and expensive. My business trips are generally booked at the last minute. Even then I 90% of the time I get an Aisle seat near the front. Why? The airlines are trying to make people like me happy. If I spend $900 to fly to Nashville they are happy! I booked a cheap flight the other day and didn't have near the same selections...wonder why?

 

[Tigger_Magic]

For all the complaining on here, we have NO one to blame but ourselves.

I read every day on this board how $200 is "too expensive" for a round trip to Disney. Well, the airlines are bleeding red ink. JetBlue lost money last quarter. All of the old majors are losing money. Even SW is seeing less profit.

So, if we won't pay what it costs to fly us the airlines are trying to get creative. And at least some of these are "optional" You don't have to buy food or drink, you don't have to "pick your seat" etc.. It's a choice you make.

I fly both cheap and expensive. My business trips are generally booked at the last minute. Even then I 90% of the time I get an Aisle seat near the front. Why? The airlines are trying to make people like me happy. If I spend $900 to fly to Nashville they are happy! I booked a cheap flight the other day and didn't have near the same selections...wonder why?

Well said, CarolA. ITA and have said the same things to myself when reading numerous threads complaining about the lack of under $100 tickets to Orlando.

In project management we have a saying: you can have it fast, good, or cheap -- pick TWO. IOW, you can't have all three. The same thing applies to the airlines. If you demand CHEAP seats, then you're going to end up paying for anything extra, including headphones, snacks, sodas, pillows, and maybe even the lavatories. Which two are you going to pick?

 

[DisFlan]

I read every day on this board how $200 is "too expensive" for a round trip to Disney. Well, the airlines are bleeding red ink. JetBlue lost money last quarter. All of the old majors are losing money. Even SW is seeing less profit.

Yes!! Dead on. That was my main point - price the REAL cost into all tickets and get the airlines back on track. Don't nickle and dime us with ancillary stuff. Don't hassle us with stupid things. Dumping pillows is NOT going to save Delta or anyone else.

DisFlan

 

[CarolA]

Yes!! Dead on. That was my main point - price the REAL cost into all tickets and get the airlines back on track. Don't nickle and dime us with ancillary stuff. Don't hassle us with stupid things. Dumping pillows is NOT going to save Delta or anyone else.

DisFlan

BUT... Amazing, but true folks will buy based on INITIAL ticket price ONLY.

A few years ago AA did the "more room in coach" move. In response to everyone complaining about "my legs are cramped" AA removed seats to give us more room. Of course, they had to charge more since they had fewer seats to sell. Did it work? Not really. Folks liked the idea, but when it came to putting down thier money they went with DL or AirTran or whoever was cheapest.

Talks cheap, but overall air travelers have shown that the ONLY thing that motivates them is the "bottom line" when they click on "buy my ticket" So, AirTran and Alligant charge you for things like picking your seats in advance.

(And amazing but true, dumping pillows saved a TON of money. It's kind of shocking what dealing with pillows costs and airline! Not to mention the random cost of theft as folks decide "this pillow and blanket are MINE")

 

[Tigger_Magic]

Yes!! Dead on. That was my main point - price the REAL cost into all tickets and get the airlines back on track. Don't nickle and dime us with ancillary stuff. Don't hassle us with stupid things. Dumping pillows is NOT going to save Delta or anyone else.

DisFlan

Won't work for numerous reasons. The American public is addicted to CHEAP airline tickets. Just browse this board and you'll seen endless posts complaining about having to pay too much to fly to DW. Too many people think cheap airline tickets are an entitlement.

Airlines have been forced by the public and by no-frills airlines to find creative ways to minimize costs and maximize profit. Most airlines would rather sell a seat at a loss than fly that seat empty. An empty seat flown is money that is never recovered.

Since the public refuses to pay the real cost of an airline ticket, the airlines have to find other ways to subsidize the cheap seats. You'd be amazed at how much those little pillows weigh when put together. The less weight the plane carries, the less fuel burned and the more money the airline can keep.

Granted, getting rid of pillows will not save an airline, but all the little steps the airlines take to save money is a step in the right direction. It may seem silly, but things like regularly washing the UPS trucks helped that company save money on their fuel costs, thus increasing profits. May be silly, but often effective.

 

[ducklite]

I have no problem with them charging a base rate and then "nickel and diming" for eerything else except one thing. As a "Chairman's Gold", I do not want to ahve to pay extra to get one of the first few rows in coach. That's a customer loyalty perk, and if they take it away, I will likely not be nearlya s loyal.

And BTW--the $5 snack boxes on US Air are GOOD and well worth $5. Heck, I don't have a problem being charged for drinks--you can always carry on if you don't want to spend the cash. And other than in FC where they come brand new and sealed, I want nothing to do with those skeevy pillows and blankets. Ewww!!

Anne

 

[DisFlan]

Won't work for numerous reasons. The American public is addicted to CHEAP airline tickets. Just browse this board and you'll seen endless posts complaining about having to pay too much to fly to DW. Too many people think cheap airline tickets are an entitlement.

Then we'll lose airlines - and tickets will go up. And the people who feel "entitled" will have exactly what the didn't want. With fewer choices.


DisFlan

 

[DisFlan]

I have no problem with them charging a base rate and then "nickel and diming" for eerything else except one thing. As a "Chairman's Gold", I do not want to ahve to pay extra to get one of the first few rows in coach. That's a customer loyalty perk, and if they take it away, I will likely not be nearlya s loyal.

I don't give a hoot about the drinks, food, pillows, luggage requirements, FF programs, etc etc etc. I resent the hassles they present, but that's the small stuff. It's a start at cost cutting, but not enough. It's what they're a symptom of that worries me. My concern is about the CORE problems of the airlines and their enormous losses. I'm worried about routes and flights being dropped, equipment not being upgraded and repair/ground crews being cut. I'm worried about second rate or resentful pilots at the helm. I'm worried about the mindsets of harried flight attendants under the hammer of imminent job and/or pension loss. If it costs more to cure these problems and to keep the airlines humming along properly, they should CHARGE more for tickets.

DisFlan

 

[westjones]

So are they charging for pop/soda now? (in that article is said something about paying a buck or two for a pop/soda). Last time we flew (15 months ago) there was not charge. Has that changed?
DJ

 

[bicker]

I saw a blurb yesterday on CNBC that said by the end of the year, most airlines will be charging extra not just for a beverage or food/snacks, but for seat choices (aisle vs, window), reserved seats, pillows, checked bags and possibly even for carry-ons. And this would be on top of the already more expensive tickets.

And maybe then they'll be charging enough to be profitable.

Some of this might be making up for the unfortunately situations of the past, the granting of too-high salaries to pilots, flight attendants and mechanics, and the granting of too-low fares to passengers like us.

If it's costing the airlines more to put planes in the air, I'd rather they price it into the tickets. And not nickle and dime us to death

Me too, but unfortunately the vast majority of the general public make poor purchasing decisions, deciding based on the up-front price, without sufficient regard to what that is actually purchasing.

The legacy airlines will roll-out any number of extra charges to avoid adding onto the ticket prices so they can attempt to compete with no frills airlines.

The alternative, of course, being the American taxpayer repeatedly bailing out these airlines, by placing more and more of those airlines' liabilities on the taxpayers.

They(airlines) will only charge what the market will bear. If we stop using the fly for a fee packages, than they will change it.

Or rather simply cease operations, throwing tens of thousands onto unemployement and eventually welfare, and leaving so much less capacity in the air that the remaining airlines will have no problem simply increasing base fares 20%, 30%, maybe 40%?

Dumping pillows is NOT going to save Delta or anyone else.

However, it could save the airline millions of dollars.

It's kind of shocking what dealing with pillows costs and airline! Not to mention the random cost of theft as folks decide "this pillow and blanket are MINE"

LOL! Sort of like the "this towel animal is MINE"!

I do not want to ahve to pay extra to get one of the first few rows in coach. That's a customer loyalty perk, and if they take it away, I will likely not be nearlya s loyal.

Hmmm... is that "loyalty" or "willingness to be be bought with perqs"? I'm joking, a little, but really not. Loyalty, as a business concept, means willing to pay a premium for a product or service without getting more (incurring the supplier more cost) for it.

 

[ducklite]

If it costs more to cure these problems and to keep the airlines humming along properly, they should CHARGE more for tickets.

DisFlan

I have no problem with them increasing ticket prices to keep up with increasing costs. I also have no problem with them elimitating most perks, or making them a "pay for it" perk. Now CO gives away the headsets they used to charge coach pax $5 for. Why?

Anne

 

[Lewisc]

According to the NY Times the federal government is giving the airlines permission to only show some of the taxes that currently have to be shown in the base price when you look for fares. You'll only see the real price when you go to book your ticket. Your initial fare will be less and an airline that decides to follow this crooked practice will be showing a lower fare than the honest airlines that follow the present policy of showing all costs, with the exception for the security and airport fees.

 

[Disneyjosh229]

Your initial fare will be less and an airline that decides to follow this crooked practice will be showing a lower fare than the honest airlines that follow the present policy of showing all costs, with the exception for the security and airport fees.

That "crooked practice" is being used by Northwest, American, US Airways, America West and many others. Bottom line is, airlines are trying to make money. The base rate policy simply shows what you pay to the AIRLINE. The rest of the "fee's" are airport, state and federal charges. This money is NOT associated with the airline what so ever. Its funny how Rental car companies have been doing this for decades and its never been concidered a "crooked practice"

 

[ajfargo]

I recently flew Allegiant to Las Vegas. When I made the reservation, I was informed that food and drinks were extra. I was given the opportunity to get my seats assigned at a charge. If I choose not to pay that, I would be assigned seats based on order of checkin. Boarding went very fast and efficient. Most people didn't have carryon bags. Those that did were able to get them stowed away very fast. I was very surprised and pleased at how this went.

I didn't get the pop and peanuts, and everything that goes with a more expensive airline. But I knew that when I booked the tickets. I got exactly what I paid for, and I didn't want to pay alot for a ticket. I was happy with what I got.

Allen

 

[bicker]

That "crooked practice" is being used by Northwest, American, US Airways, America West and many others. Bottom line is, airlines are trying to make money. The base rate policy simply shows what you pay to the AIRLINE. The rest of the "fee's" are airport, state and federal charges. This money is NOT associated with the airline what so ever. Its funny how Rental car companies have been doing this for decades and its never been concidered a "crooked practice"

Well said. It was never fair to force vendors to include taxes and fees in their advertised prices. Why should a business have to take responsibility for a wasteful government?

 

[goofy4tink]

The way I figure it is this.....airfares are going to increase, no way around it. Those r/t flights for $125 are going the way of the dinosuar. I would much rather be able to book a flight, choose my seats and know that my flight is going to stay basically the same right up to departure time...and pay more, rather than this frenetic booking at a cheapo price, then having the flight times move all over the place. I can bring my own water on board with me (I always do anyway), we bring our own snacks or eat something at the airport before we leave. I don't want those pillows/blankets (as someone already said....skeevy!!!). Just get me from point A to point B at a time, and price, that is reasonable for me. If the airline is going to have to mess around with departure times/routes, then maybe they shouldn't be booking as far out as that 331 day window. Maybe all airlines should be booking only 6 months out. I would so much rather pay $250 pp for the flight I need, rather than $160 and have to worry about the flight times moving around or the airline sticking in a connection. I remember when $250 from Boston to Orlando was a good deal...now if it's over $160 people scream about it!!!

I would rather have the airlines charge me for those 'extras'. If I need a pillow, I'll pay for it, if I need to check more than one bag, I'll pay for it. I would actually like it if they started charging for carry-ons.....a purse or backpack is fine, but if it has to go above in the bins, then you pay extra...not a lot, maybe $10 per bag. Pay for what you need, don't pay for stuff you don't need. It's pretty similar to the MYW tickets.

 

[ducklite]

I disagree with charging for more than one carry-on.

What costs the carrier less?

I carry-on my small roll-on and camera bag. The roll-on fits in the overhead top facing out, and camera bag goes under the seat.

If I checked that roll-on, I'd still have two carry-on's, because I carry my laptop in my roll-on, and obviously wouldn't check that. But then the carrier would have to pay someone to handle my roll-on as a checked bag and maintain the belts the bags come out on, and pay two sets of screeners, one for bags only and another for people and carryon's. So in fact, by my carrying it on, it's saving the airline money. I'd rather see them crack down even more on the weight of bags. I just don't understand how people can put 70 pounds of stuff in a suitcase, unless they are carrying rocks.

Anne

 

[westjones]

That "crooked practice" is being used by Northwest, American, US Airways, America West and many others.

So can you confirm for me: Does Northwest now charge for pop/sodas? Also, can I carry on a purse and a carry-on or is there an extra charge?

We are flying Northwest in two weeks for the first time in 15 months, so I wasn't aware there had been changes.

Thanks.
DJ

 

[Disneyjosh229]

So can you confirm for me: Does Northwest now charge for pop/sodas? Also, can I carry on a purse and a carry-on or is there an extra charge?

We are flying Northwest in two weeks for the first time in 15 months, so I wasn't aware there had been changes.

Thanks.
DJ

On my last Northwest flight (Jan 3 06), you were given a can of soda (no snack), The rule for carry-ons is (1) Travel Bag that can fit in the overhead bin or under the seat and (1) Purse or Laptop case.

 

[Disneyjosh229]

pay two sets of screeners, one for bags only and another for people and carryon's. So in fact, by my carrying it on, it's saving the airline money.

Ducklite,

this argument sounds logical at first, but take it from the business prespective. First off, the airlines pay nothing for screeners, the TSA oversee's all screening of baggage, which means the taxes you pay the government to fly, are being used (or are supposed to be used) to opperate all security employees and equipment. Second off, it costs the airline more for you to carry on your baggage, then to have the employees they pay load the luggage for you. Why you ask? The airlines loose upwards of $30 per MINUTE the aircraft sits at the gate (this figure changes based upon airport and time) . A team of 3 people making $8 an hour can fully load, refuel and pushback a Boeing 737 in 35 minutes. Take an estimate on how long it takes 130 of those passengers to get there baggage situated in the overheads on a full flight? Then the time it takes for the flight attendents to take the luggage that some people thought would fit in the overheads, and run it down to the tarmac for the ground crew to reopen the flight opperations, get baggage numbers and close the flight again. Logical, maybe, practical, ahh no.