After the bailout, will we have learned anything?

[mickeysgal]

I posted this on another thread. I'm curious to see other's opinions on this.

If and when we ever pull out of economic crisis, do you think anyone will have learned something about personal responsibility and accountability or will we just move on to the next item we must have and claim ignorance as the excuse to what they're signing? I'm not talking about those that have medical issues that caused their financial collapse, but people that obviously got in way over their heads with total ambivalence as to how they would pay with a salary that obviously couldn't sustain the mortgage. I know that tougher restrictions will be put into place for lending purposes, but I have to wonder whether people in general are really going to learn from this.

 

[wendy46001]

No we wont learn a thing
Banks will find new and appealing way for the avg. joe to have it all
I’ve already seen 40 and 50 year mortgages (designed to never be paid off) and Individuals will still apply for all the credit they can get all awhile only planning on paying the minimum

sadly i think the only way to learn is consequences and right now it seem like we dont have any....But i admit i have no idea how to fix the problem

 

[kellyg403]

No we wont learn a thing
Banks will find new and appealing way for the avg. joe to have it all
I’ve already seen 40 and 50 year mortgages (designed to never be paid off) and Individuals will still apply for all the credit they can get all awhile only planning on paying the minimum

sadly i think the only way to learn is consequences and right now it seem like we dont have any....But i admit i have no idea how to fix the problem

I agree with this. I guess we have to do it this way because the whole world is so tied in with our market. I just don't agree with it.

Dh is really upset about the whole thing, he turned off the Pres. last night and went to bed. Dh has worked his tail off to make sure that we have a good lifestyle, are upper middle class, money in retirement etc. Now, he is sure that those of us who have worked so hard to get somewhere and made good choice along with some bad ones we learned from are going to take the brunt of this. We already pay alot in taxes, more puts in a totally different place. He is upset about his 401k, he had hoped to retire on schedule and now it looks like he won't be able too. He was hoping we could travel and do all the things he planned for. Probably will happen but later in the game. He is really really upset. This a.m. he called me and in the process of the conversation said well, I hope someone bails us out next year at tax time. I know this is weighing heavily on his mind.

Kelly

 

[perdidobay]

Sadly, most won't learn anything. People like the above poster will get
the shaft, and those who can't tell needs from wants, or who just don't care as long as they don't have to pay the bill will keep doing the same thing.
It's disgusting to those of us who are paying the bill

 

[Mickeyistheman]

I do hope that we learn a lesson but I will tell you this. If I had a little extra cash, I didn't always save it, I would spend it, not on something that I truly needed on something I wanted.

I do not do that any longer because I do not know if I will still have a job a month from now, if business will be walking in the door or calling me on the phone.

So I really truly have to watch my spending. I am fortunate enough that I do not own a home at this time. I am living with my family to help them out.

I think that the banks and credit cards took advantage of people in my personal opinion. People are not getting raises that they might have usually gotten but because things have just been bad for the past few years. Things got worse. I just hope they can come up with a good solution not just a quick fix that will cost us, the American people.

 

[Northstar]

Yes. We will have learned that rich corporations don't have to be accountable for the risks they take to make money, that "redistribution of wealth" is perfectly okay if it means taking from the poor and middle class to create vast wealth for a few, and that those people who did behave responsibly in not taking part in the credit-fest of borrowing more than you can afford will have to foot the bill anyway.

This learning will lead all of us, in our future choices, to make the same old crisis recur. Downward spiral, I'm afraid.

 

[tink_n_pooh]

I have learned that I just need to get to the top of a large corporation, screw everything up and mess with tons of peoples lives/credit and the government will bail the company out of our screw ups and I will still get my $100million dollar retirement or severage package

 

[kellyg403]

Dh is also upset because he doesn't think we have a pres. candidate who will be strong enough in 3 years when the economy recovers to continue making the CEO's of the big banks to not start getting those big raises again. He said if we as a country did not learn anything from Enron how are we going to learn from the bailout. Because the little guy was the one who woke up one day with no job, no savings and no retirement. Some of those CEO's that went to jail will come back out with money still in the bank.

He swears that those big companies that right now we have to bail out will be the same ones throwing money towards the next election's. The same ones in 3 years will be throwing money towards congressman/senators to get some bill past to get us right back where we are today. All the while, the bill is being footed by the kids who can't get a student loan working at McDonald's and paying taxes at a single rate, those single mothers who have 3 kids and no child support, and the those people working hard to one day NOT work 15 hours a day.

It is a mess, and I think dh is probably right on most of his feelings. I just don't know what to say but I am sure scared about what the future holds for most American families.

Kelly

 

[Todd&Copper]

No.

Did we learn anything from the Great Depression, except to expect, nay demand, our Social Security checks?

 

[SteveInBrooklyn]

I hope we learned that it is risky to put an idiot in a position of power. It sickens me that 7 years after 9/11 bin Laden is lounging in his cave laughing at the United States.

 

[Disneycrazymom]

No they won't learn a thing. We the people who pay the bill learned a lot though. They and I mean all of them (congress , people who give the loans and those that take them) learned that they can do whatever they want and cry help and we will pay the bill. Too bad we can't throw them all out and start with a clean slate!

 

[DawnCt1]

I hope we learned that it is risky to put an idiot in a position of power. It sickens me that 7 years after 9/11 bin Laden is lounging in his cave laughing at the United States.

Steve, if you even bothered to do a minimal amount of reading on this subject, it would be crystal clear to you, that President Bush has no fault in this at all. Look at Barney Frank and Chris Dodd who blocked every bit of legislation to rein in Fannie and Freddie because, in Frank's world, it would eliminate affordable housing if people actually had to buy houses that they could afford. This isn't a failure of the free market. Its government meddling in the free market that caused the problem in the first place.

 

[FergieTCat]

I've learned I'm an idiot for living within my means. I should have lived in a nicer apartment, been more in debt, and waited for someone to come and bail me out.

 

[MossMan]

I posted this on another thread. I'm curious to see other's opinions on this.

If and when we ever pull out of economic crisis, do you think anyone will have learned something about personal responsibility and accountability or will we just move on to the next item we must have and claim ignorance as the excuse to what they're signing? I'm not talking about those that have medical issues that caused their financial collapse, but people that obviously got in way over their heads with total ambivalence as to how they would pay with a salary that obviously couldn't sustain the mortgage. I know that tougher restrictions will be put into place for lending purposes, but I have to wonder whether people in general are really going to learn from this.

We don't act ultruisticaly. We don't act in our long term best interest.

Let me give you an example. 30 years ago, two thirds of the fresh water in the country was officially not suitable for swimming and/or fishing. Why would this happen? Why would our companies pollute at this level. Surely, a slightly better margin of profitability isn't worth befouling the very water we all use. But befouled it was.

Then we brought in the clean water legislation and now only one third of our fresh water is similarly polluted - huge improvement. Companies are still profitable. But they needed the regulation to protect themselves from themselves.

The only thing we should learn is that given the absolute freedom to do as we please, there is a tendency for some to use this freedom in a manner that ignores all consequences. While we can easily over-regulate ourselves, the solution is rarely to abolish all regulation. Too much regulation affects profits. But too little regulation can actually destroy the activity.

So to answer your question directly, no we don't learn. We never have. We go through brief periods when the memory of over-doing it is so fresh we may self-regulate. But that memory goes away.

We put a big bowl of fresh sweet cherries in front of our child and they will eat to point of sickness. That's why we don't put such a big bowl out. We put out a smaller bowl and regulate the amount they can eat.

 

[eliza61]

No we wont learn a thing
Banks will find new and appealing way for the avg. joe to have it all
I’ve already seen 40 and 50 year mortgages (designed to never be paid off) and Individuals will still apply for all the credit they can get all awhile only planning on paying the minimum

sadly i think the only way to learn is consequences and right now it seem like we dont have any....But i admit i have no idea how to fix the problem

I second that. Unfortunately for the last couple of decades we have gone from a nation of savers to a nation of spenders and consumers. The genie is out of the box. We (as a country) still have a huge sense of entitlement. We "deserved" a big mcmansion, an ipod, cell phones. etc etc.
Heck how many people here on the Dis, swear they "NEED" a $4,000 disney world vacation?

Look at our commercials, what's the number one message "BUY NOW/pay later"
Personally, I think a depression may be what we need to shock the %$^&it out our greedy little mindset.

 

[vegasnative]

Ain't (yes, I used the word "ain't") that the truth! Don't all these financial experts talk about this very thing?! Don't they say, "don't have someone bail you out" because you won't learn a thing. If someone else pays it for you, or bails you out aren't you just teaching yourself that it is ok to do it all over again.

 

[jen0610]

No we wont learn a thing
Banks will find new and appealing way for the avg. joe to have it all
I’ve already seen 40 and 50 year mortgages (designed to never be paid off) and Individuals will still apply for all the credit they can get all awhile only planning on paying the minimum

sadly i think the only way to learn is consequences and right now it seem like we dont have any....But i admit i have no idea how to fix the problem

Those who had/have champagne taste on a beer budget, no they will not learn.

DH works with a lady, I do like her, who is one of those who bought more than she finacially could handle. Had A LOT of maxed out credit cards and leased a new car every 2 years. It finally caught up to her 8-9 months ago and she lost the house and had to file bankrupcy.

She is ticked off beyond words that she didn't hang on longer, because in her own words, "As soon as the bail out money comes, I would have had my cake and been eating it too." She will readily tell you, she's already maxed out 3 new credit cards. She is looking for a new car, because according to her attorney, she can get a new lease once it's been a year from her filing, with no problems.

So, no there are many with this attatude and they will have learned NOTHING, but to blame everyone else for their mistakes. Point fingers at the big bad corporations, ignorant to the fact that in pointing a finger at the corporations, they have 3 fingers pointing right back at them, the real reason they are in the mess they are in, THEMSELVES.

 

[SteveInBrooklyn]

Steve, if you even bothered to do a minimal amount of reading on this subject, it would be crystal clear to you, that President Bush has no fault in this at all.

I don't know, could he have stopped the selling and reselling of Mortgage Backed Securities?

Another thing, I'm not an economist, but I wonder if this crisis could have been avoided by taking the billions spent in Iraq, and instead spending them here. If all that money was given back to the taxpayer, the economy would be growing at a much faster pace. People would have more money to pay for their houses.

 

[adkkev]

Steve, if you even bothered to do a minimal amount of reading on this subject, it would be crystal clear to you, that President Bush has no fault in this at all. Look at Barney Frank and Chris Dodd who blocked every bit of legislation to rein in Fannie and Freddie because, in Frank's world, it would eliminate affordable housing if people actually had to buy houses that they could afford. This isn't a failure of the free market. Its government meddling in the free market that caused the problem in the first place.

The bill that would have put some oversight onto Fannie and Freddie died in committee ... and never made it to the floor for a vote. Republicans controlled that committee. While Frank and Dodd share some blame in this mess, please remember that there were opportunities for the Republicans, when they were in the majority, to take the initiative and get things done.

Question for you tho ... you point out that Frank & Dodd

blocked every bit of legislation to rein in Fannie and Freddie

... but wouldn't that legislation constituted "meddling in the free market" by placing regulation and oversight on those two financial entities? I'm confused ... you don't want gov't involved but then you did?

This financial mess didn't happen overnight kids ...and to lay blame and responsibility on one political party is just way off target. A lot of this started before the Nov 2006 elections (after which the Dems took over control of Congress, sorta) ... but still, one cannot point fingers at just the Republicans either ... remember who finances all of these political campaigns; it's not the little guy, the taxpayer who will now bear the burden of this "bailout", it's large corporations and financial institutions. Politicians on BOTH sides of the aisle are indebted to them, not us.

 

[AndyLL]

Steve, if you even bothered to do a minimal amount of reading on this subject, it would be crystal clear to you, that President Bush has no fault in this at all. Look at Barney Frank and Chris Dodd who blocked every bit of legislation to rein in Fannie and Freddie because, in Frank's world, it would eliminate affordable housing if people actually had to buy houses that they could afford. This isn't a failure of the free market. Its government meddling in the free market that caused the problem in the first place.

Maybe you are then one that should do some reading.

Securities based on Fannie and Freddie are guaranteed.

Any companies that invested in them have safe investments. (Fan & Fred are in trouble because they have to cover the investments)

The current issue is all the other securities that other companies did without regard to risk because they were de-regulated.

Andy