Advice on how to deal with a wicked ex?

[Jennasis]

My sister has been dating a wonderful man for almost two years now. Their engagement is imminent. He has a 4 year old son from his previous marriage. He also has a wicked witch of an ex. My sister has been like Switzerland, trying to stay completely out of the dealings with the ex, offering support and a shoulder to lean on to her BF when he has to deal with her. But the psycho woman's escapades are increasing with intensity and frequency and it's now starting to take it's toll on my sister.

My question is this; for those of you who have dealt with your significant other's crazed psychotic ex, how do you remain sane? What advice can I give my sister to help her cope?

I know there are two sides to every story, and I am sure if one were to sit down with this lunatic ex, she would spin a yarn about her ex-husband that would curl your hair. But all of the horse-pucky she doles out now is in regards to their son. She calls the ex-DH names in front of the kid, tells the kid how awful "daddy treats mommy", accuses the guy of stuff in front of the kid...and that's just the tip of the ice berg.

Anyhoo...just feeling blue for my poor sister who is struggling with it all.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

She has to stay out of it. My brother's ex is about the same. We hear comments from the kids.

We remain neutral and my brother does the same about the comments. It serves no purpose to get into it with her because that is exactly what she is fishing for.

She calls our family "a cult". Best thing we do to process it, is to focus on the kids and be supportive. It is difficult for them to balance the maddness.

Kids get older and they do "see". Be the person you want to be.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

I agree - she has to stay out of it, but the harsh reality is that this is going to take a toll on her and her relationship with her boyfriend - and maybe any children that might come out of their relationship. People like this are called "toxic" for a reason...

 

[jfoofj]

I agree, keep it neutral. Even after they are married she is technically a "legal stranger" to the child. She needs to support her boyfriend/husband but she really has no dog in this fight. People like this exwife feed off attention and drama. Eventually people see the truth (including the child). Trust me, as kids get older they learn who the liar is, and who the manipulators are.

If it is affecting the child, he probably would benefit from counseling. Also, a friend of mine went throught a HORRIFIC divorce/custody battle and their custody papers CLEARLY state that neither parent is to speak negatively to the child about the other. If it is proven that this is occuring it would be considered contempt of the orders, and that can lead to changes in custody situations.

Seriously, the only person she is hurting is the kid.

 

[Jennasis]

She knows to stay out of it. She knows no good will come of interference. but that isn't what I'm asking. How does one COPE with it and the potential toll it can take? How do you keep it from messing up your relationship with the guy or from letting the anger you feel fester and eat away at you? I've suggested she seek counseling, but I was hoping to have some practical advice from the been-there-done-that crowd.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

She knows to stay out of it. She knows no good will come of interference. but that isn't what I'm asking. How does one COPE with it and the potential toll it can take? How do you keep it from messing up your relationship with the guy or from letting the anger you feel fester and eat away at you? I've suggested she seek counseling, but I was hoping to have some practical advice from the been-there-done-that crowd.

For starters she can talk to her future DH and explain that she does not need to hear every rant and detail.

There is a fine line between asking for support and dumping on someone.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

She knows to stay out of it. She knows no good will come of interference. but that isn't what I'm asking. How does one COPE with it and the potential toll it can take? How do you keep it from messing up your relationship with the guy or from letting the anger you feel fester and eat away at you? I've suggested she seek counseling, but I was hoping to have some practical advice from the been-there-done-that crowd.

Mentally stable people have a hard time tolerating (dealing with/understanding) mentally unstable behavior. This is going to be a problem, no matter how hard she tries not to allow it to become one. It could, by itself, ruin her relationship...

 

[Jennasis]

For starters she can talk to her future DH and explain that she does not need to hear every rant and detail.

There is a fine line between being asking for support and dumping on someone.

Mmm..interesting point. Dually noted!

 

[Darcy03231]

You just cope with it and realize that its her (the ex's problem) not yours and support your boyfriend/husband the best you can. If she can't cope she should end her relationship with the guy. He comes with a child and a crazy ex and that's not going to change anytime soon. DH came with two children and a crazy ex. We got married when his children were 6 and 10. They're now 21 and 25 and the craziness still hasn't stopped. We never did or said anything negative about their mom or retaliated, just kept taking the high riad. They ended up figuring it out for themselves when they were in their teens.

 

[jfoofj]

My best advice is for her to help him learn how to deal with the situation, the child is young and they will have to deal w/ the ex for years. Actually, forever. It will probably get worse before it gets better once she sees her ex moving on with his life, into a new marriage. My favorite mentality is that we can't control people's actions, we can only control how we react to them. There are a ton of books out there on divorce/custody/parenting issues, maybe she could buy a couple and they could read up on techniques to cope/help the child cope.

First of all, I hope that he has a COURT ORDERED custody arrangement that specifies his time spent with the child weekly, vacations, holidays and allows for telephone contact as well.

He should keep a journal of all the time he spends with his child, the dates he has him, and any time denied (even if he tries to call to say goodnight, telephone calls can be court ordered if she never answers). He should also write down any stunts/drama that she pulls so he can jog his memory of what happened when, what she was was saying/doing. If he is afraid of her pulling anything at drop off/ pick ups then they should be done in public or even at a local police station.

Email, email, email. I can't stress that enough. My friend's lawyer told her to do ALL schedule arranging/discussions through email so they wouldn't have to do it face to face (in front of kids especially) and her ex sent her some SCATHING emails, clearly violating their custody orders and some were even downright threatening (ie "keep it up and I won't bring them back till I'm good and ready" and "I'll work for my brother under the table so you'll get less child support.") WELL, those emails made it into court, and the judge DID NOT like the fathers attitude at all.

She should encourage him to NEVER engage her in the craziness, to NEVER lose his cool or even raise his voice. That would play right into her hand. Have him go into "robot mode" when dealing with her "yes, that is fine", "no that doesn't work", "we shouldn't discuss this in front of little Johnny", "please email me your thought/ideas and I will get back to you."

Most of all, he needs to stress to his son that he loves him and is there for him and never, ever talk negatively about the ex in front of him.

Whatever she does, have her tell him to NOT give up on spending the time with his child that he deserves. Fathers have just as much right to RAISE their kids as mothers do, and if her craziness is interfering with that then he can take steps to remedy that. It is ILLEGAL to deny court ordered parenting time, and family courts these days don't award the mothers everything they ask for just because they have the golden uterus.

Good luck!

 

[Chicago526]

My best advice is for her to help him learn how to deal with the situation, the child is young and they will have to deal w/ the ex for years. Actually, forever. It will probably get worse before it gets better once she sees her ex moving on with his life, into a new marriage. My favorite mentality is that we can't control people's actions, we can only control how we react to them. There are a ton of books out there on divorce/custody/parenting issues, maybe she could buy a couple and they could read up on techniques to cope/help the child cope.

First of all, I hope that he has a COURT ORDERED custody arrangement that specifies his time spent with the child weekly, vacations, holidays and allows for telephone contact as well.

He should keep a journal of all the time he spends with his child, the dates he has him, and any time denied (even if he tries to call to say goodnight, telephone calls can be court ordered if she never answers). He should also write down any stunts/drama that she pulls so he can jog his memory of what happened when, what she was was saying/doing. If he is afraid of her pulling anything at drop off/ pick ups then they should be done in public or even at a local police station.

Email, email, email. I can't stress that enough. My friend's lawyer told her to do ALL schedule arranging/discussions through email so they wouldn't have to do it face to face (in front of kids especially) and her ex sent her some SCATHING emails, clearly violating their custody orders and some were even downright threatening (ie "keep it up and I won't bring them back till I'm good and ready" and "I'll work for my brother under the table so you'll get less child support.") WELL, those emails made it into court, and the judge DID NOT like the fathers attitude at all.

She should encourage him to NEVER engage her in the craziness, to NEVER lose his cool or even raise his voice. That would play right into her hand. Have him go into "robot mode" when dealing with her "yes, that is fine", "no that doesn't work", "we shouldn't discuss this in front of little Johnny", "please email me your thought/ideas and I will get back to you."

Most of all, he needs to stress to his son that he loves him and is there for him and never, ever talk negatively about the ex in front of him.

Whatever she does, have her tell him to NOT give up on spending the time with his child that he deserves. Fathers have just as much right to RAISE their kids as mothers do, and if her craziness is interfering with that then he can take steps to remedy that. It is ILLEGAL to deny court ordered parenting time, and family courts these days don't award the mothers everything they ask for just because they have the golden uterus.

Good luck!

ITA with this post! Have her DF document everything. The time may come when he wants/needs to file for full custody and this can go a long way to helping his case. A good friend of mine is in the same boat, her DH has an insane ex and in the initial divorce he fought for custody and lost. He's saving up to afford a better lawyer (one that specializes in father's rights) and once he has the $$$ he's filing. Meanwhile they are noting every time she drops the kid off at daycare in rags two sizes too small yet has that new Coach back that she bought with ex-hubby's tax return. The child is only 3 so the negative comments about daddy haven't started yet, but I'm sure their coming soon. They're saving voice mails, they are saving emails. Meanwhile, they're are taking the high road, to the point that she's just about walking all over them.

As for how my friend is dealing with insane ex...well...she just tries to take it one day at a time. She focuses on her step daughter and doing the best for her that she can, treating her like one of her own daughters (and just the same, no favorites in her house!) and supports her DH as best she can. I don't know if there are any hard and fast ways to deal with it, you just make do the best you can. I second the idea of getting some parenting books that deal with divorce, they may have some good tecniques they could try.

 

[Bren's Mom]

jfoof had lots of great things to say.

I'd add that she should NOT accept a marriage proposal from this man until she does figure out how to handle this. Because an engagement, marriage, and if it happens, future children WILL inflame this type of ex and life may get a whole lot more difficult. And then there's a new child that has to be protected as well. Just some food for thought.

I can tell you that sometimes time makes things better. My dh's ex was not fun the first few years of our relationship but we never engaged her. NEVER. We just kept on taking the high road, walking away when necessary, giving her concessions whenever we could and it wouldn't negatively affect their son, etc. Now, we didn't just roll over and let her run the show. After a year my then BF told her that I was part of their lives and I would be attending school functions (like concerts) and I would be spending time with them regularly and she would have to accept that.

It took many years, but it is finally calm and peaceful most of the time. But dh and I were older (both over 35 when we got married) and we'd done alot of living in that time and we were prepared for whatever happened and had a very strong relationship. We were also not above counseling, we had agreed on that, if we ever got to the point where his ex was contributing to problems between us.

 

[KiKi Mouse]

The 4 y/o is old enough to walk to the car on his own. That way there isn't opportunity at the door for arguements etc. Basically the less face to face contact there is the better for everybody.
The BF needs to make sure that EVERYTHING is spelled out in his court order like a PP said. Specific visitation, holidays, who pays for what, child support etc. The more that is in black and white the less two people can fight about.
As for communication...email works and phone calls if necessary. If the witch starts screaming or saying inappropriate things then the BF can hang up. She'll learn to talk respectfully if he has to do that a few times.

As for coping..it's hard. My DH married me and I have a crazy ex and everything is an issue with him. The ex is married to a crazy woman who runs his life so it makes it even harder as he can't make a decision about anything without getting permission from his handler.

My DH gets frustrated on occasion and I feel bad but I don't own the bad behavior.

 

[Jennasis]

Dangit...here I was hoping there'd be some awesome nugget that I could pass on to her. But it sounds like she's(and her BF) are doing everything corrrect. The BF is to never EVER drop off or pick up the son alone. That's when the psycho gets bad, when there is nobody but him to witness the crazy. He communicates with her solely through e-mail (at the request of his attorney) so that there is a paper trail of her responses and crazy. It infuriates her because she can't properly degrade him via e-mail I guess. He also records any phone conversations and has told her that he records all their conversations...infuriates her more.

I am several states away from all of this so I can't even "be there" for my sister, which makes me feel helpless (just like I bet she feels a lot of the time).

Apparently the nutjob is being served with papers this week because BF wants a new custody agreement. She currently rides rough-shod all over the one they have in place. For example HE and my sister cannot take "Johnny" out of school this October for WDW for 2 days, but nutbag ex can take him out in December for a week long ski weekend. The reason BF can't take Johnny? Ex doesn't think it's a good idea for him to miss two days of school at the start of the year. but a week in December? No problem! She also HATES when the kid spends time with HIS family. The BF was going to have his mom pick the kid up from school one day because he was running late (this is JOhnny's grandma). Ex found out and picked him up an HOUR early from school so grandma couldn't have him. her reasoning? Oh was it's YOUR day to be with him, not your mothers.

She also like to call the boy when it's dad's night and cry at him over the phone...literally CRY...about "I miss you SOOOOOOO much!" "Aren't you excited you get to come home and be with me tomorrow morning??"

Nutty.

 

[KiKi Mouse]

How long have these two been divorced? Seems like she calls the shots and he therefore does need a new custody order so that she can't make all the decisions.
I hate to say it but I have a feeling that if this has been going on for some time then the situation is unlikely to change. All that can be done is to try and distance the two parties by having no face-to-face drop offs and communicate by email so that there is a paper trail.
It's hard...I know. We have it going on in this house too and we do all those things I have mentioned but my ex is still very difficult. As for the school pick ups if it is the BFs visitation time then it is his time regardless of whether he gets his mother to pick the boy up. Why is the BF allowing the ex to pick up the kid on his time? Or is that something that isn't in black and white? Sad but with people like her the more that is in the order the less wiggle room she has to bend the rules.

Also if your sister plans on having children with the BF then this is something that needs to get under control as another child will be dragged into the mess.

 

[Bren's Mom]

Or is that something that isn't in black and white? Sad but with people like her the more that is in the order the less wiggle room she has to bend the rules.

And even then there can be issues. My dh's custody order for dss clearly states every other holiday. But every holiday since the divorce there is crying and carrying on (to dss directly) about how lonely mommy will be and daddy has new wife and baby brother and I have no one and they're keeping me from being happy because I'll be alone and lonely...etc etc. So then dss is upset. We've chosen to just celebrate a different day. So that HE doesn't feel like he's being torn in half. We could have stood our ground, the order was on our side for every other holiday...but it just wasn't worth it. It's one of those sacrifices as a couple we've had to make together for dss's sake.

 

[bumbershoot]

I'd add that she should NOT accept a marriage proposal from this man until she does figure out how to handle this. Because an engagement, marriage, and if it happens, future children WILL inflame this type of ex and life may get a whole lot more difficult.

Good point. I would absolutely suggest some pre-marital counseling, like, a lot of it, to help them with "tools" to stay solid as a unit, instead of possibly being divided.

I had a sort-of boyfriend with a completely psycho ex. Every time he and I started getting closer, the midnight calls to my house would start and she would start showing up at his place again. I don't know how she got the number; she probably had checked his phone bills from when she lived with him, but it was awful. Two separate times she "got" him and had a planned-out baby with each gotcha (lucky! wish my body would do that on demand), and as her friends figured out her problems they went over to the guy's side (and told all the woman's evil plans and plots), and I ultimately decided that I could not have her in my life, and therefore I could not be in HIS life. It was sad, he was a great guy, but I was, and still am not, cut out to have a person like that around my life.

But if your sister is cut out to have someone like that in her life, and obviously she feels she is since she has stuck around, she's got to get ready, and counseling for the two of them, with those clear goals (how to deal, how he can share without it overwhelming her, how she can vent without making him feel stupid for having been with the ex in the first place, etc etc etc), will very likely be invaluable.

 

[Jennasis]

The pre-marital counseling is a great idea, and if I recall correctly, they are planning to do this. I am fairly certain that my sister has been invited into a session or two with her BF when he sees his therapist.

Ultimately, they are dotting all the "i"'s and crossing all the "t"'s so I feel better hearing it from others who've been through this. I just felt so terrible when I spoke to my sister yesterday and she was so angry at herself for HATING this other woman, to the point of wishing bad things would happen to her. I told her it's just emotions and normal to fell that way, and she knows it, but she despises feeling such animosity toward aomeone...particularly when this other person hasn't necessarily done anything bad towards my sister, only the BF.

Someone asked about the ex not allowing the grandma to get the kid from school. If I am remembering right, grandma showed UP at the school to pick up Johnny and was told that the mom had gotten him an hour earlier.

The kid had some event at school the other day so both mom and dad had to be there. Crazy ex starts picking a fight over nothing with sis's BF with the kid right there. Finally, BF picks Johnny up, puts him on his shoulders and walks away to go enjoy the event (the equivalent of a hanging up on her). Ex starts screaming: "Ho HO! There goes Daddy RUNNING AWAY again! That's right DADDY, runfrom your problems!"

She ain't quite right. But I do like the advice of the poster who said, maybe BF should share the stories of wickedness less. It just makes my sister angry.

 

[LoraJ]

Sounds like the same nutjob I had to deal with when I dated a guy who had a young son. The woman never met me (at the time) but she would say nasty things to her kid about me and then he'd hate me when he saw me again and I would have to start from scratch. He got some special award at church and his aunt had a arty for him and invited me to come. Well after the award ceremony the son ran up to me first to show what he got. I congratulated him and told him to show his mom. I could just feel the daggers from her eyes. When we went to the party I was forced to leave by the nutjob. That just really upset the son. The parents were in a custody battle at the time which added another level of suckage. She was making up stories to the kid about the dad for him to tell the psychologist.

It wasn't jealousy that I was with the ex, they only dated a year or so and she had been married and divorced since. She couldn't stand that her kid liked me.

I just had to roll with it is much as I could. I did not cause a scene when asked to leave. I just left.

At the time I was active on a message board on ivillage.com for stepmothers. It was very helpful. Maybe something like that is still around for your sister?

 

[Disney Doll]

What am I about to say is coming from a place of concern for your sister.

Please tell her to think long and hard about her relationship with this man.

She is going to be dealing with this woman for the rest of her life...through children, grandchildren etc. if she marries him. It's going to be a long, hard haul....is she quite sure she wants to do this?

If they marry and have a child together, what impact will this woman have on their child? Forget the impact this woman has already had on her boyfriend's child...you may have mentioned it, but does the child get therapy? Because if he doesn't, he should. Because she is a toxic presence in the child's life.

It sounds like they are doing all the right things...about the only other thing I might do is have a videocamera at "functions" so if she goes off all crazy (like she did at the function you described) you can actually get her on videotape...it sounds like the more evidence there is of her behavior, the better off they'll be in terms of custody issues down the road.