Activities for 13 year olds

[NHdisneylover]

When we cruised last September DD12 and her friend were hugely dissapointed in Ocean Quest (and had been very excited about it and went in expecting to have a blast). They would have liked to keep busy doing things (not just hanging out). DDs point was that since hanging out is ALWAYS and option there should be always also another, structured, activity to choose. Worse, was that most of the stuctured activities that were offered were exact reapeats of what has been done for years in the lab (flubber, Mr. Toads race, etc.) so it was the same old thing she had had for years as a younger kid (we go about once every 18 moths--that is a big enough gap to expect some new variety to come in). I think there were only 2 crafts offered all week--both really basic Oriental trading comapny things any second grader could do, etc.
Someone mentioned improv games earlier in this thread--I hope that means this has been added to the Quest as it was one of her requests last time. The actual age grouping would be good IF they offered more to do for those who do not want to just hang out (DD and her friend say when they want to just hang they will do so in the cabins or by the pool, why go to the loud OQ for that). The other problem was that when DD and her friend showed up for an activity if they were the only ones the CMs would cancel the activity. I think even if only one kid shows up, the activity should happen and the CMs could still make it fun for that one.

 

[BethA]

is there a recent navigator for the quest anywhere?

 

[frdeb1999]

The navigators are'nt accurate or at least they were'nt with our Dec cruise. DD told us about lots of actiivites they had going on that were'nt always listed in it. She was very happy in Dec.....they did a lot more then what was being reported on the threads. I think they are slowly improving things in OQ as they are getting more feed back. I know they had alot more crafts, scavenger hunts and activities that were planned. DD enjoyed this even more then she had in the lab.

 

[frdeb1999]

Deffinately agree with the stack post. My older dd's the first year we cruised said the exact same thing. They went a couple times and did make friends with a few others. But said for the most part it was just mostly "hooking up".

 

[dceks cruisers]

We went on our first cruise in Feb '09 and had the same concern about DS 13 too. Upon boarding, our DS who is very outgoing stayed with us long enough to find the room and he was GONE! He showed up at midnight the first night and just got back from OQ and said it was just younger kids and not the group he wanted to hang out with. We told him that wasn't the Stack.

Next day he "found" the STACK and never looked back! He had a blast and made friends with kids of all ages, including other 13 yr. olds. The group bonded very well, were very responsible and were inseparable and are working on a reunion cruise...it would be a Med. cruise if they had their way!

This was a happy ending since the night before the cruise I met a stranger at Subway and my DD mentioned about going on a cruise the next day. Turns out the lady was a TA and she asked about DS age and said he'd be bored. I was high anxiety thinking of spending so much money to be told "I'm bored" but it was not the case for us!

As we were rebooking a 2nd cruise, a guy ahead of me told the booking lady that his DD 12 was very bored and hung out with Dad way too much and suggested they really improve the OQ program.

I'm sure things will work out and your DD will find the right place for her to hang out. Hope this additional insight helps.

 

[lbgraves]

I would have liked to see a 13/14 group and and then older teens.
If the stack is all 14-17, I think he is not mature enough for that group. I think I'll wait til we get onboard to tell him. Are there navigators with the 11-13 info for the 7 night cruise?

The activities are listed seperatedly for this group in the regular navigators along with the other kid club activities. They are linked in the FAQ thread.

 

[wwwosie]

Next day he "found" the STACK and never looked back! He had a blast and made friends with kids of all ages, including other 13 yr. olds. The group bonded very well, were very responsible and were inseparable and are working on a reunion cruise...it would be a Med. cruise if they had their way!

Isn't the stack for 14 and UP?[/QUOTE]

 

[wwwosie]

Just FYI- the stack can have 18 YEAR OLDS in it! If they haven't started college yet. Crazy huh? Yes I think so.
I agree with you that 14yr olds with kids up to legal adult age is IMO not a good idea...... didn't go well with my 14yr old on the last trip let me tell ya.

Hello! I very respectfully have to say that I disagree with this, if the kids are in High School, they are already around 18 year olds at school. I don't think a kid changes that much the day after they turn 18. All kids are different, and I have seen kids much younger than 18 do things that my DS would never even think about doing because he thinks it's stupid.

Also, most 18 year olds know that innapropriate behaviour with someone younger could land them in the brink.

In my very optimistic view of the world all teens are great until they prove otherwise to me. That said, I am not naive and both my kids know what situations to avoid.

All I'm saying is: follow your own rules but give teens a chance!

 

[runwad]

Wow I'm disappointed to read about the pagers for OC. This is our first cruise and my DD will just be turning 11. My DH is very protective of her, no way he'd want her walking around the ship alone and she'd be afraid too. I guess we'll just have to go check on her and see what time she wants to leave until he gets comfortable with her meeting up with us somewhere. Thanks all.

Hey what about texting on phones? I wonder if that would work out in the middle of the ocean, anyone know? We have tracfones.

 

[lbgraves]

You would have to find out what your international cell rates are for texting. Someone posted that they get expensive.

 

[rwrocksme]

On our first cruise, I was in the Lab. It was so darn boring! I was in there for about 20 minutes a day, and then I just walked around the ship doing whatever.

On our second cruise, I was so excited, because I was 13 and I could be in the Stack. I was a grown-up. And guess what? I hated that, too. Everybody was so much BIGGER than me (I'm 4'11 and 70 pounds). So, once again, I walked around the ship.

This time around, I have planned what I'm going to do, and none of it involves labs, quests, or stacks.

It does, however, involve the Jonas Brothers movie. Maybe twice. Or three times...

 

[stitchlovestink]

Ocean Quest is not like the Kids Clubs, in that she will have the freedom to come and go as she pleases. While they do have structured activities, she can also just "hang out" with kids her own age. It is for younger teens, 11-13 years old.

I know this is going to sound snarky and it's not meant to be but 11 and 12 year olds are not teens. 13 is a teen. Here where we live 11 y.o.'s can still be in elementary school. My dd who is 13 is finishing 8th grade. Big difference between 5th grade and 8th grade. IMO bigger difference there than between 8th and H.S. My 8th grader gets way more homework than her older Dsis who is finishing 11th grade. and I know in H.S. it's not just about the homework too. BTDT

We have taken 5 Disney cruises and dd was really looking forward to going to the Stack on this last cruise. They changed the ages not long before we cruised in Jan (I found out about a week before we went) and dd and dh were extremely upset. We did not sign dd up for Ocean Quest. She went one night to check it out and there was no one over 11 there. She then went up to the Stack to check it out. The counselor asked her how she was and she did tell them 14 but no one checked. It turned out several of the friends she made there had done the same. I usually would have punished her for not telling the truth, but the counselors did eventually find out and didn't seem to mind. DD would have been miserable in Ocean Quest and she ended up having the best time with all of the new friends she made in the Stack.

Were you on the Wonder or Magic? Cause the Aloft is on the Wonder and they are allowed in at age 13. I got a better one for you regarding the Aloft...counselor told my DD15 at the time she needed to leave because she was too old for the Aloft. What?! She's only 15. She gave the counselor (a guy BTW) her key card and told him to check his roster as she was eligible to be there. He still tried initially to insist she was too old. I think it must be the fact that she towered over him as she is 6' in bare feet. He did eventually let up on the 2nd day. I thought I was going to go have a little chat with him.

luvcruisn - Thanks for your view point. I have wondered if they are letting some 13 year old kids in, and if they are, how that happens. I was thinking about just asking when we get to the ship.

While I know that some 13 year old kids would like OQ, mine is not one of them. My DD has been looking forward to the Stack for the 2 years we have been waiting for the cruise - the fact that they have changed the age limits is a bad deal for us.

She really did not like the clubs when she was 11, and I do not think it is going to change at 13. On the Wonder, she would check herself out and go back to our stateroom and sit by herself. I do not want that to be what she does on this trip.

the part that would frustrate me the most about this situation, is that DCL changed the rules after you booked. I think that since 13 y.o. are still allowed in the Aloft on the Wonder, parents should be allowed to decide if they want them in OQ or STACK. while I do think that you should be allowed to change once if needed, you can't just float back and forth you need to pick one. And I think the cost of a cruise is a lot of $$ to just have your kid go back and sit in the cabin because they're bored.

When we took my friends daughter who was 14 on the cruise a couple years ago she hated the Stack- she said she was uncomfortable because it was like a bunch of guys and girls just trying to "hook up" and she did not care to be there. A few days later while we were coming back from a show she saw two of the kids that had met in the stack- they were on a lounge chair on deck laying on top of each other making out. Some kids are there just to have fun but then you have the group that looks at it like a dating service!

Now the Aloft was not like that at all when we were on our cruise. Not saying that it wasn't on yours, but that may well vary from cruise to cruise. I KNOW DD13 would've told me about that.

Isn't the stack for 14 and UP?

I stand corrected by lbgraves. LOL. Yes the Stack is for 14 and up and is on the Magic. We were on the Wonder and my girls were in Aloft and it is for 13 and up. Thanks, lbgraves, for setting me on the straight and narrow w/ correct info!

Hello! I very respectfully have to say that I disagree with this, if the kids are in High School, they are already around 18 year olds at school. I don't think a kid changes that much the day after they turn 18. All kids are different, and I have seen kids much younger than 18 do things that my DS would never even think about doing because he thinks it's stupid.

Also, most 18 year olds know that innapropriate behaviour with someone younger could land them in the brink.

In my very optimistic view of the world all teens are great until they prove otherwise to me. That said, I am not naive and both my kids know what situations to avoid.

All I'm saying is: follow your own rules but give teens a chance!

I agree wholeheartedly with this. I do think too, that if it is your oldest child you are going to want to hold them back. But if it's the younger ones, they're already around older teens if they spend any time w/ their older sibs and/or their sib's friends. Truthfully, I was a little disappointed in one of the CM's behavior. Younger DD watched as he was hitting on one of the girls (she was a brand new 17 or at least that's what she told us). He was smart enough not to hit on her in the club or while he was working, but when DD16 and DD13 were hanging out w/ her at the pool and on CC, he was hitting on her. I witnessed it once on CC. The mom thought it was kinda funny and was flattered for her DD, I thought it was kinda raunchy. I think he was a young CM. He was kinda cute though. Other than that, I don't recall there being anything remotely inappropriate happening. Trust you me, DD13 is a blabber mouth about that kind of stuff.
Again, I think that the problem is that there is really no cut and dry answer here as alot of this has to due w/ personalities, interests and maturity levels. My DD13 would NOT want to hang around w/ 11 yolds. She's babysitting them here at home at that age (only for late nights, as moms and dads don't want the kids home by themselves generally after 9pm). She will still be 13 when she starts High school because she was on the tail end of the cut off for school. They changed the cut off age the year after she started school. So like I stated earlier, an 11yo could still be in 5th grade elem school. and quite frankly, as the kids behind DD13 move up in grades, there are going to be more and more 18 and 19 y.olds in high school before they graduate. And that's if they started on time and don't get held back at all. When my older DD was in 8th grade, there was one boy in the school (8th grade) that had been held back enough (no learning disabilities, he just didn't care, nor did his parents ) that he was turning 16 before finishing the 8th grade. He could've driven himself to middle school. Worse yet, as long as he got all of his H.S. credits on time he was going to be 20 when he graduated H.S. I'm still not convinced that it was smart of the state of MD to change the ages, but they didn't ask me for my opinion.
No perfect solution or answer, but I think the parents shoud get some input. Esp. if they're letting 10yo's bump up to OQ. DD13 wanted to be able to spend some time w/ her older sis and vice versa. They had a great time together in the Aloft.

 

[BibbidyBobbidyBoo]

Hello! I very respectfully have to say that I disagree with this, if the kids are in High School, they are already around 18 year olds at school. I don't think a kid changes that much the day after they turn 18. All kids are different, and I have seen kids much younger than 18 do things that my DS would never even think about doing because he thinks it's stupid.

Also, most 18 year olds know that innapropriate behaviour with someone younger could land them in the brink.

In my very optimistic view of the world all teens are great until they prove otherwise to me. That said, I am not naive and both my kids know what situations to avoid.

All I'm saying is: follow your own rules but give teens a chance!

Okay first of all.
The 18yr olds don't have to be a day after 18 or even close to that. Here you have to be a certain age before the first day of school to start- and that means quite a few will turn 18 the day school starts or in the few months afterwards- therefore they could potentially be DAYS from 19 (not barely over 18) when on the magic in the stack- because they will be almost 19 and if they cruise late summer and haven't started college yet- they can be in there. So I think it's unfair to compare and discuss only those even a day over 18.
(personally I think this problem, that I have with this, could be solved with if you're cruising during the school year and you're still in highschool then yeah if you're 18 you can still go to the stack but when summer months start and you've graduated- you're not in highschool anymore and regardless if you've started college or not you're not in highschool, you've graduated and you're an adult and there is no reason for you to be hanging out with 14yr olds- some of which may have JUST turned 14 or a month shy of it.)

Secondly- not all 14yr olds are in highschool yet. My daughter turned 14 in 8th grade (because of that same rule of age I mentioned above) so "they are already around them in highschool" doesn't wash there either. She wasn't around 18yr olds when she was 14 and hadn't been when she cruised at 14.5yrs old last summer either. Not yet anyway.

And lastly- when it's mentioned they are "with" 18yr olds in highschool that doesn't wash with me either, even if they ARE 14yr old and in highschool already--- not unless you want to actually compare the stack and the total lack of real supervision (see stitchlovestink to see an example of what kind of supervision those teens are getting from the counselors- and that's only one example. they vary from non-existent supervision to outright misbehavior THEMSELVES. Do you think a counselor hitting on a teen is really going to be concerned how other teens are behaving in the stack? I think not) with highschool?!? Seriously? I don't know what schools your kids go to but the ones around here are zero tolerance PDA- they can't even hold hands or hug in school- EVER and they mean business. (2nd time you're suspended, 3rd time you're expelled to teams school) And not only that but you're very unlikely to have a LOT of interaction with seniors when you're a freshman- most likely only in things like band, choir and/or athletics. (and those are very structured, very supervised and you're not going to be able to behave and have the freedom you do on the cruise ship!) My daughter was in ap classes and STILL was only amongst sophomores with the occasional junior but that was rare. She had NO interaction with seniors at all (not even lunches as they worked around classes which meant the freshman/sophomores taking the same classes had lunch at the same time/etc.) except in band and athletics. Period. And like I said- even that interaction was AFTER our cruise, not before. Since she hadn't started highschool yet.

(I do agree that I think they should allow a little more leeway for the parents in the age range of 13-14- if a parent wants a 13yr old in the stack they should let them, if a child is 14 and they want them in the OQ- they should let them. I think this would solve a lot of problems, both ways, with children being forced in age groups of such varying personal maturity mentally, physically, etc. I don't think they should be as strict about it at the teenage years as they are with the very young kids!)

anyway my posts were not meant in any way to say that every kid that turns 18 is a horrible person for wanting to hang out with younger teens and that I worry about ANY of them being around my daughter/etc. - I hope it didn't come across that way. I just think that's a HUGE age range there and it's a potential for a problem of which the counselors are not that apt to put a stop to, IMO and in our experience and thru tidbits I've read on here. Yes that can still happen with much younger children, I know that- I've witnessed it myself! But like I said I think the potential is greater with older "children" who are now technically adults- even allowed after they've graduated but before college and could even potentially be almost 19yrs old and in there. It's not the "kids" (adults!) themselves that I think are bad or something- it's just that they've lived a lot more years as teens and some even potentially lived on their own already and have a very different life and experiences than atleast MY 14yr old dd has... although maybe she's not the norm. LOL Neither was I at that age.. and glad of it! LOL I had a strict mom too and although I didn't like it at the time I appreciate it now! LOL

I hope they figure out a better system on the new ships. They should have more room to have more age groups and places for those age groups to go. I think, personally (which I realize is just my opinion and not everyone will agree) that they should divide the ages up a bit more (atleast from age 11 and up) when they have more room to potentially put more kids group areas on the new ships- AND that they should be less strict about the exact ages when they are in their teens (as I mentioned above- allowing some leeway for the parents to decide because they know their child best!). And I also think it would be ideal if they had a specific area/activities for the 18-21 crowd because even though they aren't totally left out- I don't think when I was 18 I'd have felt comfortable doing the adult things, in bars but not drinking and everyone else is, with a 30's/40's+ crowd all the time. Just my opinion. And then the 18yr olds could choose, or maybe based on if they are still in highschool or not, if they went in the stack group or in the 18-21 group. Right now the only choice for 18yr olds is hang with the parents (not necessarily theirs but many others! LOL) or in the stack with younger teens. That kinda stinks! But maybe they don't get a large number of that age (so they don't care) since that age is usually in college and unable to cruise as much during the non-summer months. Who knows.
(ps. yes it kinda bothers me that 18yr olds can go into the adult areas, hang out and do things with adults in all areas- yet go in the stack with young teens if they want to. That's kinda having it both ways and it can't be both ways- either you're an adult.. or you're not.)

Dividing it the way it is now, and being so strict on the critical age group for teens (13/14) where there can be huge differences between one 13 or 14yr old and another 13 or 14yr old, is a problem... and that's why we end up having these discussions occasionally because we all have different children and we know OUR children and don't always agree on what the age cut off should be- ofcourse because we only know our children and not the other person's. Yanno? I think it could be done better and I hope that they do so on the new ships where they have more room -should they choose to use space for this!

 

[DMMarla07860]

Hello! I very respectfully have to say that I disagree with this, if the kids are in High School, they are already around 18 year olds at school. I don't think a kid changes that much the day after they turn 18. All kids are different, and I have seen kids much younger than 18 do things that my DS would never even think about doing because he thinks it's stupid.

Also, most 18 year olds know that innapropriate behaviour with someone younger could land them in the brink.

In my very optimistic view of the world all teens are great until they prove otherwise to me. That said, I am not naive and both my kids know what situations to avoid.

All I'm saying is: follow your own rules but give teens a chance!

I have to agree with this, on my, I haven't been able to go the the Stack since 2006, well could have then since I was 18, but didn't had more fun in the college club social, but anything I did a back-to-back cruise February 21st-March 7th, 2009 and I was 20. Some of the college group one night found some teens doing stuff we wouldn't do or at least know better not to do it public, of course we also met some teens one night(we had nothing to do and the stack was playing dodgeball and needed more kids for canada so all the teens screamed to us to come play and they let us, only that night though, lots of fun)who were cool and we chilled with at the pool some days, most of the teens we meet were 17, so not really much age difference between them and us

 

[lbgraves]

I NOPE! the Stack is on the Wonder and is for ages 13 and up.

Just wanted to clarify for new cruisers...the Stack is on the Magic and is 14-17. Aloft is on the Wonder and is 13-17.

 

[Morgey24]

Wow I'm disappointed to read about the pagers for OC. This is our first cruise and my DD will just be turning 11. My DH is very protective of her, no way he'd want her walking around the ship alone and she'd be afraid too. I guess we'll just have to go check on her and see what time she wants to leave until he gets comfortable with her meeting up with us somewhere. Thanks all.

Hey what about texting on phones? I wonder if that would work out in the middle of the ocean, anyone know? We have tracfones.

you might want to buy a set of hand-held walkie talkies --- way cheaper than trying to "ping" a satellite for texting!!!

 

[BuzzLightYear3]

We went on our first cruise just a month after my oldest turned 13. He was intimidated by the Stack, but he absolutely loved OQ, and he had a blast. Early in the cruise (maybe the first night), they sent the OQ kids out on a scavenger hunt, so they had to run all over the ship. He made some friends doing that and managed to find them periodically during the rest of the cruise. We did find OQ closed periodically for other events, e.g. the Lab kids would visit so it was closed to the older kids, so that was a little disappointing, but he still managed to find his friends anyway. OQ is definitely not like a kids club.....they are free to come and go as they like and there aren't highly structured activities. We let our DS stay out as long as he checked in periodically and as long as he was back in the stateroom by midnight, and he loved the freedom. At one point, he showed up in the room at 11 p.m.....he had to change.....some girl was splashing him.....he had "no idea" why!

That cruise was almost 3 years ago, and not a week has gone by since then when he's asked if we could go on another Disney cruise.

Granted, I have a DS instead of a DD, and I'm sure there's a maturity difference with the DDs, but with your approval, there's plenty of opportunities for independence, and I think that's really the thrill for 13 year olds.

 

[stitchlovestink]

Just wanted to clarify for new cruisers...the Stack is on the Magic and is 14-17. Aloft is on the Wonder and is 13-17.

MY BAD! You are absolutely right and I was wrong. My girls were in the Aloft. Don't know why I screwed up on this as they got cinch bags w/ Aloft printed right on them.

Okay first of all.
The 18yr olds don't have to be a day after 18 or even close to that. Here you have to be a certain age before the first day of school to start- and that means quite a few will turn 18 the day school starts or in the few months afterwards- therefore they could potentially be DAYS from 19 (not barely over 18) when on the magic in the stack- because they will be almost 19 and if they cruise late summer and haven't started college yet- they can be in there. So I think it's unfair to compare and discuss only those even a day over 18.

The same here. School starts during the last couple days of August and you must be 5 by Sept 1 to start Kindergarten. So if your Bday is on Sept 2, you'll be turning 6 w/in the first days of school. This was started awhile ago (2003, I believe) so it has not worked it's way past 5th grade yet.

(personally I think this problem, that I have with this, could be solved with if you're cruising during the school year and you're still in highschool then yeah if you're 18 you can still go to the stack but when summer months start and you've graduated- you're not in highschool anymore and regardless if you've started college or not you're not in highschool, you've graduated and you're an adult and there is no reason for you to be hanging out with 14yr olds- some of which may have JUST turned 14 or a month shy of it.)

They could and probably would solve this problem if they would designate an area for the 18 to 20 crowd (adult but pre-legal drinking age). I think they (meaning the 18 y.o.'s) probably would prefer to hang out in an area not filled w/ high schoolers too.

Secondly- not all 14yr olds are in highschool yet. My daughter turned 14 in 8th grade (because of that same rule of age I mentioned above) so "they are already around them in highschool" doesn't wash there either. She wasn't around 18yr olds when she was 14 and hadn't been when she cruised at 14.5yrs old last summer either. Not yet anyway. /QUOTE]
That may be the case w/ your daughter, but as I previously stated my daughter will only be 13 when she starts high school and will complete a whole quarter before turning 14.

And lastly- when it's mentioned they are "with" 18yr olds in highschool that doesn't wash with me either, even if they ARE 14yr old and in highschool already--- not unless you want to actually compare the stack and the total lack of real supervision (see stitchlovestink to see an example of what kind of supervision those teens are getting from the counselors- and that's only one example. they vary from non-existent supervision to outright misbehavior THEMSELVES. Do you think a counselor hitting on a teen is really going to be concerned how other teens are behaving in the stack? I think not) with highschool?!? Seriously? I don't know what schools your kids go to but the ones around here are zero tolerance PDA- they can't even hold hands or hug in school- EVER and they mean business. (2nd time you're suspended, 3rd time you're expelled to teams school) And not only that but you're very unlikely to have a LOT of interaction with seniors when you're a freshman- most likely only in things like band, choir and/or athletics. (and those are very structured, very supervised and you're not going to be able to behave and have the freedom you do on the cruise ship!) My daughter was in ap classes and STILL was only amongst sophomores with the occasional junior but that was rare. She had NO interaction with seniors at all (not even lunches as they worked around classes which meant the freshman/sophomores taking the same classes had lunch at the same time/etc.) except in band and athletics. Period. And like I said- even that interaction was AFTER our cruise, not before. Since she hadn't started highschool yet.

Well again, that varies by state. At our high school all 4 grades can/will be in the cafeteria at the same time. It's always been that way. Of course, the seniors designated their lunch tables and the others pretty much respect them that way. Here they can have a senior in w/ freshmen. Esp if a senior moves to this state and doesn't have a course required for graduation. Sadly, MANY of the courses required for graduation and seem to be specific to our state's curriculum are completed during freshman year of HS. A couple of more are completed in the sophomore year. Basically, by the time you get to junior/senior year, you only have 1 (maybe 2 required courses) other than your math, english, history, and science on of those 2 years. for her senior year, DD only needs 3 courses one semester and 4 the other. somehow it was overlooked that she was not put into a world history (required course) class in her sophomore year. She will now have to take it as a senior and will be in a class w/ pretty much all sophomores. When she was in Govt class as a freshman, they had 3 seniors in their class that were new to MD and needed the class to graduate. Around here, it happens. Not in Middle school, but in high school, yeah...
As far as the PDA, I think you would find that your school system is in the minority (mind you, I did NOT say alone, but in the minority). while our school system discourages it, I think administration has bigger fish to fry. There's nothing in our handbook about handholding. Making out in the hallway is a different ball game though.
Of course, DD's Biology teacher was suspended last year right before the end of 3rd quarter, because he was allegedly sleeping w/ one of the 17 yo seniors and was supposedly 'sexting' with some of the other girls in the school or so we were told in the local paper. Want to talk about a GRAND MESS?! Here they have to take and pass a Biology HSA (HS assessment test) and you don't graduate w/o passing these 4 HSA's. I really felt terribly sorry for the long term sub they brought in to replace him. She had a grand mess to clean up to get these kids ready for that HSA. Luckily DD passed, but no thanks to the 1st teacher. I guess my point is as much as I want to shelter my kids, I can't from real life. I want to try to equip them to think on their own and not just follow the crowd, whether it's at school, at a youth activity, the mall, a rec team, or in the Aloft. KWIM?

(I do agree that I think they should allow a little more leeway for the parents in the age range of 13-14- if a parent wants a 13yr old in the stack they should let them, if a child is 14 and they want them in the OQ- they should let them. I think this would solve a lot of problems, both ways, with children being forced in age groups of such varying personal maturity mentally, physically, etc. I don't think they should be as strict about it at the teenage years as they are with the very young kids!)

anyway my posts were not meant in any way to say that every kid that turns 18 is a horrible person for wanting to hang out with younger teens and that I worry about ANY of them being around my daughter/etc. - I hope it didn't come across that way. I just think that's a HUGE age range there and it's a potential for a problem of which the counselors are not that apt to put a stop to, IMO and in our experience and thru tidbits I've read on here. Yes that can still happen with much younger children, I know that- I've witnessed it myself! But like I said I think the potential is greater with older "children" who are now technically adults- even allowed after they've graduated but before college and could even potentially be almost 19yrs old and in there. It's not the "kids" (adults!) themselves that I think are bad or something- it's just that they've lived a lot more years as teens and some even potentially lived on their own already and have a very different life and experiences than atleast MY 14yr old dd has... although maybe she's not the norm. LOL Neither was I at that age.. and glad of it! LOL I had a strict mom too and although I didn't like it at the time I appreciate it now! LOL

I hope they figure out a better system on the new ships. They should have more room to have more age groups and places for those age groups to go. I think, personally (which I realize is just my opinion and not everyone will agree) that they should divide the ages up a bit more (atleast from age 11 and up) when they have more room to potentially put more kids group areas on the new ships- AND that they should be less strict about the exact ages when they are in their teens (as I mentioned above- allowing some leeway for the parents to decide because they know their child best!). And I also think it would be ideal if they had a specific area/activities for the 18-21 crowd because even though they aren't totally left out- I don't think when I was 18 I'd have felt comfortable doing the adult things, in bars but not drinking and everyone else is, with a 30's/40's+ crowd all the time. Just my opinion. And then the 18yr olds could choose, or maybe based on if they are still in highschool or not, if they went in the stack group or in the 18-21 group. Right now the only choice for 18yr olds is hang with the parents (not necessarily theirs but many others! LOL) or in the stack with younger teens. That kinda stinks! But maybe they don't get a large number of that age (so they don't care) since that age is usually in college and unable to cruise as much during the non-summer months. Who knows.
(ps. yes it kinda bothers me that 18yr olds can go into the adult areas, hang out and do things with adults in all areas- yet go in the stack with young teens if they want to. That's kinda having it both ways and it can't be both ways- either you're an adult.. or you're not.)

Dividing it the way it is now, and being so strict on the critical age group for teens (13/14) where there can be huge differences between one 13 or 14yr old and another 13 or 14yr old, is a problem... and that's why we end up having these discussions occasionally because we all have different children and we know OUR children and don't always agree on what the age cut off should be- ofcourse because we only know our children and not the other person's. Yanno? I think it could be done better and I hope that they do so on the new ships where they have more room -should they choose to use space for this!

Amen to that one!
I think DCL should have a panel of parents that help them set the 'rules' for the progams that are 'sign out free'. and the rules should be revisited every so often to see if they need tweeking. I'd voluteer.