Absolute truth? Yes or no...

[hokiefan33]

Do you believe that there is such a thing as "absolute truth"? I was intrigued by a portion of a post which I saw on another thread, stating the following:

It isn't a matter of common sense. There is nothing "common" about "sense". Sense is always a matter of personal opinion; there is no absolute truth.

What strikes me about that saying is that an "absolute" is being used to state that there is no "absolute truth." So I'm wondering, how is this possible? If there is no "absolute truth", can you even absolutely say that there isn't without contradicting yourself??

 

[Sonya]

My brain just went *poof*

 

[cardaway]

Here is bicker's complete post.

"It isn't a matter of common sense. There is nothing "common" about "sense". Sense is always a matter of personal opinion; there is no absolute truth. And that's really the crux of the problem, because the reason for the controversy is power; specifically one group's effort to exert power over another, in the interest of dictating for everyone what a personal committment between two people should be allowed to be. Their interest is in having the secular definition of the institution match their own religious definition, rather than recognizing that reasonable people disagree about matters of belief, such as this. They resist the idea of granting people, other than themselves, the right to live in accordance with their own beliefs on matters such as this."

Bolding by me.

The thread was about gay marriage, but I believe that post covers many other topics.

IMO there are widely accepted truths, but no absolute truths.

 

[hokiefan33]

Here is bicker's complete post.

"It isn't a matter of common sense. There is nothing "common" about "sense". Sense is always a matter of personal opinion; there is no absolute truth. And that's really the crux of the problem, because the reason for the controversy is power; specifically one group's effort to exert power over another, in the interest of dictating for everyone what a personal committment between two people should be allowed to be. Their interest is in having the secular definition of the institution match their own religious definition, rather than recognizing that reasonable people disagree about matters of belief, such as this. They resist the idea of granting people, other than themselves, the right to live in accordance with their own beliefs on matters such as this."

Bolding by me.

The thread was about gay marriage, but I believe that post covers many other topics.

IMO there are widely accepted truths, but no absolute truths.

My question ONLY relates to what was written about there being no absolute truth, not the rest of his post or that thread, for that matter. The comment made which I referred to when starting this thread is a broad comment, not related specifically to that issue.

IMO there are widely accepted truths, but no absolute truths.

So is that an absolute truth?

 

[kc73]

If a person says it is true that there is "no absolute truth", they are contradicting. It can not be absolutely true that there is no absolute truth.

Things are true whether or not you agree with them. i.e. There is a God, whether or not you think so. (dare I open that can of worms? )

The "true for you, true for me, etc." statements are actually only matters of opinion. At least, it's true for me that they are matters of opinion.

 

[cardaway]

So is that an absolute truth?

No, guess you chose to ignore the IMO part.

 

[Maleficent13]

Hmmm...well, can God make a rock so big he himself cannot lift it?

Seems like the same type of question to me.

There are *some* absolute truths. For example, we are all going to die someday. I don't think that's subjective.

 

[2funny2c]

Hokie, this is where the argument falls apart for these people that claim there is no absolute truth.

See, they believe in absolute truths in some situations and then say there are no absolute truths. very contradictory.

Cardaway, wouldnt want to live in this relativistic society that he touts. He wants absolutes in the law but not in the rest of society. Of course, his ready made excuse for this would be they the laws are "widely held truths".

If people could freely commit crimes against Cardaway based on their definition of the law then I am sure he would be the first one to speak up for some absolutes.

Truth is not dependent on how many people widely accept it.

Relativism and pluarlism are just more symptons of the disease of postmodernism in our society.

 

[Aidensmom]

I believe there are some absolute truths. Some, such as 1+1=2 or that my desk is made of wood, are things that we can easily see. I believe that there are also absolute truths when it comes to matters such as faith, such as there either is or there isn't a God, but we as humans do not have the ability to completely understand or prove those truths, so to us they are still just beliefs or matters of opinion.

 

[hokiefan33]

No, guess you chose to ignore the IMO part.

Actually, I'm not ignoring it at all. Whether it's your opinion or not, and you're certainly welcome to it, even your opinion contradicts itself when you say "in my opinion, there is no absolute truth." You're still making an absolute statement ("there IS..."), and then contradicting it by saying there isn't ("...NO absolute truth"). That's fine for it to be your opinion that there's not, but whether it's opinion or fact, it's still a contradiction.

 

[hokiefan33]

Hokie, this is where the argument falls apart for these people that claim there is no absolute truth.

See, they believe in absolute truths in some situations and then say there are no absolute truths. very contradictory.

Cardaway, wouldnt want to live in this relativistic society that he touts. He wants absolutes in the law but not in the rest of society. Of course, his ready made excuse for this would be they the laws are "widely held truths".

If people could freely commit crimes against Cardaway based on their definition of the law then I am sure he would be the first one to speak up for some absolutes.

Truth is not dependent on how many people widely accept it.

Relativism and pluarlism are just more symptons of the disease of postmodernism in our society.

Now there I go, talking to myself again!

 

[hokiefan33]

It can not be absolutely true that there is no absolute truth.

Exactly right.

 

[sodaseller]

Yes, subject to the elder Obi Wan's view on perspective

 

[hokiefan33]

I believe there are some absolute truths. Some, such as 1+1=2 or that my desk is made of wood, are things that we can easily see. I believe that there are also absolute truths when it comes to matters such as faith, such as there either is or there isn't a God, but we as humans do not have the ability to completely understand or prove those truths, so to us they are still just beliefs or matters of opinion.

I always find it amazing to see how the people who say there are no absolute truths get around the fact that 1+1 ALWAYS equals 2. That is clearly absolute, b/c 1+1 NEVER equals anything else EXCEPT 2!

You are right, there are also absolute truths relating to faith, such as there is or isn't a God. Either there is, or there is not. There isn't a God sometimes, but not others. And God either exists for everyone, or doesn't exist at all, so the argument that "there may be a God for you, but not for me" doesn't work, either. And if there either IS or ISN'T a God, and if one of those is absolutely true, then it means the other is absolutely false, so that also means that anyone who believes the idea that is NOT absolutely true, is absolutely incorrect!

However, what a lot of people like to do is say that it can't be PROVEN, therefore it DOESN'T exist, or it MIGHT not exist. Or say that since we can't prove it with tangible facts we can see or touch, that they are just beliefs or opinion. Really? So just b/c you can't prove it, it's not true, or might not be true? Is that what you're saying? If that's the case, might you then be believing in something that is absolutely NOT true? How then, do you reconcile that with the fact that you believe in it?

 

[hokiefan33]

Yes, subject to the elder Obi Wan's view on perspective

An absolute truth isn't subject to anything. If it is, then it's not absolute, it would then be a conditional truth or just an opinion. Might want to revise your answer.

 

[BelleMcNally]

An absolute truth isn't subject to anything. If it is, then it's not absolute, it would then be a conditional truth or just an opinion. Might want to revise your answer.

I think this is what sodaseller was referring to :
Luke: Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father.
Obi-Wan: Your father... was seduced by the Dark Side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and BECAME Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was TRUE... from a certain point of view.
Luke: A certain point of view?
Obi-Wan: Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...
Obi-Wan: depend greatly on our own point of view.

 

[sodaseller]

An absolute truth isn't subject to anything. If it is, then it's not absolute, it would then be a conditional truth or just an opinion. Might want to revise your answer.

I don't need to revise my answer. These kind of discussions can be interesting, but not in this context - with someone that is not actually seeking truth. I have never believed you actually were - just seeking to cause trouble

 

[sodaseller]

I think this is what sodaseller was referring to :
Luke: Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father.
Obi-Wan: Your father... was seduced by the Dark Side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and BECAME Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was TRUE... from a certain point of view.
Luke: A certain point of view?
Obi-Wan: Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...
Obi-Wan: depend greatly on our own point of view.

Exactly

 

[EltonJohn]

What strikes me about that saying is that an "absolute" is being used to state that there is no "absolute truth." So I'm wondering, how is this possible? If there is no "absolute truth", can you even absolutely say that there isn't without contradicting yourself??

You can't. He just made a logical fallacy.

 

[sodaseller]

Exactly right.

Paging Professors Heisenberg and Godel!