ability vs. motivation/desire (high school related)

[luvflorida]

This has been going around in my head for quite some time. Is there a right/wrong, good/bad way to solve this?

DD15 is a Sophomore in high school. She is very bright and always scores extremely high on standardized tests, especially in the area of language arts. She took accelerated language arts courses in middle school, and has taken Honors level English classes in high school. There is no question that she has the ability to excel in these classes.

The problem is that she doesn't really have the internal motivation or self discipline that one must have to do well in these classes. She does well in the classes and maintains an A average, BUT only because I keep on top of her and make sure she's doing the work and turning things in on time. When reminded of homework and such, she'll do it, but if left on her own, I know it wouldn't get done, or she wouldn't put in the effort required.

I find it soooooooooooo frustrating because she admits that she's gained a tremendous amount of knowledge in these classes, and she wants to get into a good college, and she knows the importance of good grades, but what she SAYS and what she DOES are two different things.

Anyway, she has picked English classes for next year. Originally, she had AP Language/Literature on her course load, and the English teacher approved it. After discussing it further with my daughter, we both decided it would be better for her to NOT take the advanced class. She is now going to drop it from her course schedule and take a regular 11th grade English class, along with a class in Creative Writing and one in Mythology.

The AP class required a heavy workload over the summer, and that sealed the deal for my daughter, and me. She would have been required to read at least ten novels over the summer and complete at least ten reports/research papers. Could my daughter do it? Yes. Did she want to do it? No. Was I looking forward to a summer of nagging and reminding her of what had to be done? NO!

Yet, I still have conflicting emotions about the whole thing. If a teen has the ability to complete upper level work, should they be required to do so? I'm not talking about mandatory school work because that would be non-negotiable. I'm talking about honors level, AP classes. On the one hand, I feel like she should be taking these classes, but on the other hand, I can see her point. Some kids might have the desire and motivation to handle that much extra work, especially over the summer, but some kids could care less.

My gut feeling is that it isn't worth it to make her take these upper level classes if her motivation just isn't there. I know there are other things to consider- getting into college, work being too easy in the other English classes. Then again, I know she would be happier not having the stress that comes with the advanced classes, and in turn, so would the rest of us.

Anyone else face a similar situation? Opinions? Thoughts? Thanks so much!

 

[monarchsfan16]

First off I'm not a parent. I graduated high school last June, and quite frankly killed myself with work my junior year. Because of junior year I made the choice to take regular college prep physics rather than AP physics my senior year. I had been signed up for AP physics, but changed before scheduling was actually done. I'm pretty sure my mom wanted to kill me at the time, but I was scared of the work. I probably had the ability, but didn't have the desire to struggle through another class (junior year AP Bio kicked my butt to put it mildly). It actually ended up being the best decision I made about classes during high school, and now my mom sees that too. The physics teacher I had was THE best teacher I have had in my life. I have no regrets about taking the lower level. I was able to succeed without the struggle that was involved in so many other classes. Most of the struggles I had in other classes came from not having the motivation to study as much as I should, or to go ask a teacher for help, etc. Ok, I had some plain bad teachers too, but that's part of life. My mom is a high school teacher, so she knew the whole "the more AP's you take the better" view. Also, in my high school, once you were in a certain track for classes, it was very difficult to get out.

I guess what I'm trying to say is you can have the ability to take a class, but take something a little less difficult, and have everything turn out fine. Heck, I took an easier class in my senior year, the year colleges are watching for slackers. I got accepted by all 6 schools I applied to. No I didn't exactly have any reach schools, but you can still get into college if you don't take the AP class.

And having killed myself over many classes (some were just hard because I didn't have enough motivation at the time to study as much as I should have while others had bad teachers), sometimes you have to go with your gut. It sounds like she's not ready for the class, so you're making the right choice.

 

[golfgal]

We are going through the same thing with our DS13, who will be in high school next year. We decided that we would rather have him get a lower grade in an advanced class then a lower grade in a general class. Is your DD going to be any better with homework in the general class, no. If she wants to get into a good college they will look at her transcript and see A's in the honors classes then switching to a general class and equate that with not wanting to work hard and nope we don't want that kind of student.

I would stop keeping on top of her, she is PLENTY old enough to do that herself and let her take the consequences of her poor work habits. My guess is that once she sees the B's, C's or what ever on her report card, her attitude will change since she is used to getting the A's.

 

[NMAmy]

My gut feeling is that it isn't worth it to make her take these upper level classes if her motivation just isn't there. I know there are other things to consider- getting into college, work being too easy in the other English classes. Then again, I know she would be happier not having the stress that comes with the advanced classes, and in turn, so would the rest of us.

I think this is your answer right here. Go with your gut feeling--you know your child best. If taking the AP class is going to be frustrating for both you and her, then is it really worth it? Is it possible that if she matures over the next year and has a desire to put in the effort, that she could take an AP class in her senior year?

DD is in AP classes this year and signed up again for next year (she'll be a sophomore next year.) She's on her own to get her homework done--I assist if needed (well, not with her math or her science--I doubt I could do the developmental classes of those, much less the AP!) by proofreading and helping her study with flashcards but it's her responsiblity to make sure her work is done and manage her time wisely. As much as I'd like to go to college with her --she'll be on her own there and will need to have these skills under her belt. If she should have trouble doing this in the AP classes, you bet your bippy I'd move her to the regular classes the following year.

It's really hard to know if we're doing the right thing--but you're the one who knows best, in this case. It sounds like you've made a good decision with your dd.

 

[Jynohn]

I was the same as your daughter in HS. School work always came very easy to me, and I was always recommended for the AP classes. My mother always pushed me to take the advanced classes, but I hated them. It seemed like all the other students in those classes were competing against each other to get the highest grades, spending endless hours on homework etc. It didn't seem fair to me that I had to work so much harder than all the rest of my friends, who always seemed to have more time for fun.

I finally convinced my parents to let me drop down to college prep level in some of my classes, and it made high school a much more enjoyable experience for me. I was able to easily maintain good grades, and still had time to just enjoy being a teenager, instead of being constantly stressed about schoolwork. There's plenty of time for stress later in life! I'm not saying that not working up to potential is a good idea, but it's also important to keep things in perspective.

I was accepted into very good schools, despite not being in all AP classes. I think you should encourage your daughter to push herself as much as possible, while also keeping in mind that high school is one of the last times in her life when she can just enjoy being a kid. I'm having this same dilemma with my son now, who is 13 and choosing his classes for next year.

 

[luvflorida]

We are going through the same thing with our DS13, who will be in high school next year. We decided that we would rather have him get a lower grade in an advanced class then a lower grade in a general class. Is your DD going to be any better with homework in the general class, no. If she wants to get into a good college they will look at her transcript and see A's in the honors classes then switching to a general class and equate that with not wanting to work hard and nope we don't want that kind of student.

I would stop keeping on top of her, she is PLENTY old enough to do that herself and let her take the consequences of her poor work habits. My guess is that once she sees the B's, C's or what ever on her report card, her attitude will change since she is used to getting the A's.

You've mentioned exactly all the things we've been discussing lately! Up to this point in her school career, we've strongly encouraged the upper level courses. She's taken them and done well, but it hasn't always been pretty. Her motivation doesn't equal her ability. Junior year can be one of the toughest years of high school, and she knows she's going to have a tough course load even without the AP class. I don't think she'll have a problem with the homework load of a regular class. All of her other classes are CP level, and she seems to get through those without too much intervention from us. The workload of the Honors level and AP classes is much more intense.

I know what you mean about backing off and letting her get a few C's, or whatever, but I just can't seem to be able to do that. I know, it's an issue I need to deal with. And I worry about exactly what you said- that colleges will look at the fact that she went from Honors level to CP.

 

[luvflorida]

Is it possible that if she matures over the next year and has a desire to put in the effort, that she could take an AP class in her senior year?

We met with daughter's advisor, (students have a fifteen minute period every day with the same teacher for all four years), and she did say that she could take the AP Language/Literature course her Senior year. So, that's something to consider.

 

[KristaTX]

She is now going to drop it from her course schedule and take a regular 11th grade English class, along with a class in Creative Writing and one in Mythology.

It sounds like she loves and is good at language, writing, literature, etc. If taking the regular English class allows her to have time to take these other 2 courses, then you should never question yourself about the decision to drop the AP course. If she has found something she truly has a passion for, then do everything you can to help her pursue it.

Most high school students have not identified any particularly academic area that they are passionate about, so she may already be a huge step ahead of many of her peers. And with her grades, she'll get into college. No need to fret the AP stuff. And she'll be much more prepared to be an English major in college (if that's what she decides on) if she takes English-related classes now that she truly enjoys.

 

[BeNJeNWaFFLe]

I say it's her decision. She is the one who will have to sit through the class, do the work, take the tests, etc. If she knows she won't put the effort in, and will just be misserable, then it is her choice.

Now don't get me wrong, I think the advanced/AP classes are a great chance. I always excelled in math and science. I was a year ahead in both and in the honors classes. I am the same way as your daughter though. I have the ability and the smarts to do really well, but I have no motivation. I took AP Physics and AP Calculus my senior year of HS. Would I have put myself through that normally knowing I have no motivation? Heck no. But I knew what type of college I wanted to attend going into senior year and I knew those classes would make or break my college career. I put in half the effort into the classes and passed with good grades and eh grades on the exams. (It was senioritis I swear!!) I didn't do well enough on the exams to give me credits towards college but it showed the colleges that I was motivated and willing to try.

Well then college came. College (as another poster put it) kicked my butt. I went to a top rated engineering college. Hard doesn't begin to describe it. No help that I am a girl in a male dominated field. I learned real fast to put in the effort and get motivated. In HS I would wait until the last minute to do my homework or study. In college, that homework would be done as soon as possible and I would spend a week studying for a test. During finals time I wouldn't talk to anyone or go anywhere because all I did was study. I formed study sessions and homework sessions with classmates. I actually read a textbook or two! Once I saw how much money I was spending on classes and how much debt I acrued in a very short amount of time, I got cracking.

I say all this because I was your daughter. I had no effort and no motivation. Hopefully once your daughter starts college she will see that lazy doesn't cut it anymore. College will make you or break you. It broke me at first then after a lot of work I made it through. Good luck with your daughter. Don't fight her just yet. Once college starts and you see that first GPA, then you can scream. (My mom did. )

 

[luvflorida]

I was the same as your daughter in HS. School work always came very easy to me, and I was always recommended for the AP classes. My mother always pushed me to take the advanced classes, but I hated them. It seemed like all the other students in those classes were competing against each other to get the highest grades, spending endless hours on homework etc. It didn't seem fair to me that I had to work so much harder than all the rest of my friends, who always seemed to have more time for fun.

I finally convinced my parents to let me drop down to college prep level in some of my classes, and it made high school a much more enjoyable experience for me. I was able to easily maintain good grades, and still had time to just enjoy being a teenager, instead of being constantly stressed about schoolwork. There's plenty of time for stress later in life! I'm not saying that not working up to potential is a good idea, but it's also important to keep things in perspective.

I was accepted into very good schools, despite not being in all AP classes. I think you should encourage your daughter to push herself as much as possible, while also keeping in mind that high school is one of the last times in her life when she can just enjoy being a kid. I'm having this same dilemma with my son now, who is 13 and choosing his classes for next year.

Good points! I worry about all the stress that these kids have on them. Yes, I want her to work at her ability level, but I also want her to be able to relax and have fun. Her outlet is dance and she spends about nine hours a week at the dance studio. It is definitely her passion. On the other hand, she knows that school is her first priority and we expect her to do no less than her best. She can handle AP courses, but would rather not. It's tough because I can see it both ways.

 

[golfgal]

Does her school have 3 levels of courses, general, college prep and AP? If that is the case, then the CP coursework is probably ok. I know here you are either in general or AP, no middle ground. One thing the counselors told us is that if they don't start at honors courses in 9th grade buy the time they are jr's it will be difficult to take the AP courses because they don't have the same background. Our decision would be MUCH easier if they had a college prep level coursework, he would definitely be in the college prep classes, not the AP.

 

[luvflorida]

Does her school have 3 levels of courses, general, college prep and AP? If that is the case, then the CP coursework is probably ok. I know here you are either in general or AP, no middle ground. One thing the counselors told us is that if they don't start at honors courses in 9th grade buy the time they are jr's it will be difficult to take the AP courses because they don't have the same background. Our decision would be MUCH easier if they had a college prep level coursework, he would definitely be in the college prep classes, not the AP.

The high school has standard, college prep, honors, and AP classes. All of her classes have been CP, except for English, which has been Honors level. In the Junior and Senior year, there are no Honors English classes, only AP. Daughter's Sophomore Honors English teacher said that 2/3's of her students have chosen the AP class for next year.

 

[ColoradoBuffaloMom]

I just went thru this with my DD who is a sophomre. She puts so much pressure on herself that I don't need to add to it. She has taken Advanced and AP classes for her first two years of HS and has done very well. Her passions are math and science, not languarge arts so for her junior year she signed up for AP History, AP French, Physics, Calculas, regular Language Arts and she will be on the Yearbook staff.

At first she felt bad about not taking AP Language Arts but I thought she was overloading herself and LA is not her passion. She feels good about her schedule and so do I as well as her Counselor. My DD likes the challenge of the Advanced classes but I just don't think every class needs to be AP or Advanced.

Just my 2 cents...