A touchy subject

[MonorailMan]

I'm about to discuss something that I'd normally never talk about on The DIS, but considering this is the G&L Board, I'd figure this would be an ideal place for it.

Last week I watched a video on YouTube of a man whom I believe is from the UK. (At first the only reason I clicked the video was because from the thumbnail image I thought he was cute......but I digress. ) The guy started talking about how he thought it was an abomination for gay people to adopt/raise children.

Breathe.
Breeeeeathe.....

He started listing numerous Biblical references as to why his theory should be supported.

Fine.

I watched a few other of his videos, and noticed that every single one of his videos revolves around him being out in the world and quoting the Bible:
--In one video he stood out in a bad hail storm saying that it was God's doing and that it was only the beginning of a much worse storm that will soon be coming due to God being displeased with the sins of man. (I'm sure you can imagine some of the things he listed as sins.)
--He posted another of him watching a story on the news about how home schooling is becoming a thing of the past in Germany. He sat through the entire video not listening to what was being said on the TV, but instead quoting passages from the Bible and saying how the world is attacking Christianity and that home schooling is the best way to go because regular schools are teaching things like sex education and evolution.

As I'm sure you've figured out, in most of his videos he was very upset and displeased with the way things are going around him in the world. Even in the 1 or 2 videos I saw of him where he was happy, he was constantly quoting the Bible to his daughter, wife and yes.......even his dog.

Upon watching his video on gay people adopting I posted a comment which basically asked him why he felt it was okay to pick and choose which sins listed in the Bible are alright to overlook. I also told him that the majority of priests and pastors I have personally met have been gay. Today I discovered that he not only deleted my comment but anyone else's comments who didn't share his viewpoints, regardless of their non-judgemental tone.

I also noticed today that he left me a private message as a response to my comment/question:

(You'll have to excuse the grammar and punctuation. I just cut/pasted it.)
-----------------------
"your right, i do pick and choose.God will pick and choose? between the sheep and goats.i dont aim to attack minority groups on my vid,so i will not reply to it there, as God condemns unnatural priests, and they have attacked kids etc.repent ye and believe the gospel.all who love Jesus keep his commandments and all who dont love Jesus will die eternally sad, but true"
-----------------------

After reading this I spent about 45 minutes typing a well-thought out private message. It let him know that the questions I was going to be asking weren't meant to bash his views or beliefs. Instead I was just curious about where he was coming from and why. At the end of the message I told him if he chose to respond to please not simply quote the Bible because I wanted to hear what he was thinking.....not what the Bible says. And then......upon sending it I got a message saying the guy would only accept messages from people who were his friends.


I don't mean to offend anyone, but I really think I need to ask this: Is it just me, or do gay-bashers and most fundamentalist Christians talk/yell 99% more than they listen? In doing so they're not learning ANYTHING. I understand they refuse to believe in evolution......and maybe that partially explains this behavior. When you don't listen, you don't learn. If you're not learning, you're not evolving as an individual. You're stuck. If that's the case, what's the point in being alive? Picking and choosing things you want to learn seems like a very selfish and shallow act in my opinion, mainly because when this happens you're naturally going to practice segregation against certain people. Most gay and even straight people I know tend to shut up and listen to what others around them are saying. This does not, however, seem to be the case with gay-bashers and/or most fundamentalist Christians I've seen/met.

This whole ordeal really bothered and upset me quite a bit. I'm not sure if I should be really mad at this guy or if I should feel sorry for him.

 

[air]

I wouldn't get too upset over this. He seems to be set in his ways and is going to block everything else out opposing what he believes.

 

[MonorailMan]

I wouldn't get too upset over this. He seems to be set in his ways and is going to block everything else out opposing what he believes.

Yeah, but that's the problem: It's not just him. There are thousands and thousands of people like this, some of whom are also on YouTube. And when a news team comes to take footage of something like a Pride parade, what do they cover? The protesters. Essentially they're getting what they want--attention. The last couple years here we've had 1-2 very small bunches of protesters at the Pride parades (there used to be a lot more), but that was basically all the 11 o'clock local news showed footage of.

When straight people who haven't made up their mind about how they feel about gay people see footage like this, what do they think? My guess is that some people probably think, "Oh.....there were protesters there.....so something must've been wrong with what was going on."

I dunno. It's just a big downhill-rolling snowball of a topic for me at the moment. It never really used to bother me before.

 

[jackskellingtonsgirl]

My first reaction is "Let it go!" You don't have enough hours in your day to argue with people like this. You won't change his mind, he won't listen to you and pause to think about what you have said, and in the end you will be angry and frustrated and he will be happy that he made you mad.

I know it is infuriating, but you have to choose your battles wisely.

 

[jlewisinsyr]

If he wants to talk about sheep, him and his fellow followers should look in the mirror some day...baaaaaa

 

[Goofyluver]

Just because someone won't/refuses to listen doesn't mean you have to stop "talking".

There is someone, somewhere who will be listening.

That's the person who will learn through your words...not the toad who hides behind foolish bogotry and hate.

 

[ConcKahuna]

Just because someone won't/refuses to listen doesn't mean you have to stop "talking".

There is someone, somewhere who will be listening.

That's the person who will learn through your words...not the toad who hides behind foolish bogotry and hate.

The problem has always been selective hearing

 

[merryweather20]

From what you have posted this guy is just an idiot in general. It has nothing to do with him saying he is a Christian. If his parents raised him a satanist or an atheist or Jewish or Buddhist or a Scientologist he would still be an idiot.

The Bible, is like statistics you can use it to back up 99% of what you want to prove. Its big it has a lot of words which have been translated in many different ways, and can and have been interpreted differently. So its easy to find something/anything to back up any point of view.

Its pretty clear what the Bible actually says on the subject but many people, like to grasp at straws... and its often the idiots that do this.

 

[Goofyluver]

The problem has always been selective hearing

You'd think that'd teach me to shut-up...alas...no.

 

[rpmdfw]

So here's my question for you MonorailMan:

Do you still think he's cute?

 

[Holly]

When someone posts a theory on a place like Youtube and then deletes each and every opposing view, it really says something.

It says that the theory doesn't hold up to real criticism.

It shows that the author isn't really interested in discussion or learning about all sides of an issue, just the ones that support their right to hate and discriminate.

I also find it interesting that he now only accepts comments from friends- friends that must think just like he does. What a sad, narrow, and boring existence.

Is it just me, or do gay-bashers and most fundamentalist Christians talk/yell 99% more than they listen?

It's not just you.

One example I'll use is how there are people who are not allowing their children to watch the inauguration because it is inclusive to the LGBTQ community. As a matter of fact, Christian Anti-Defamation Commission recommended that Christian parents not let their children watch because the inaugural events were going to be polluted with sexual sin.

There are things at the inauguration that I don't agree with (like Rick Warren), and yet I'm having my children watch because, guess what, life is full of things that I don't love and yet they still exist.
They don't disappear if I close my eyes, or hold my hands over the eyes of my children. I want them to see that people are different and trust that I've helped instill good minds and good hearts in them so that they can make their own choices.


The 45 minutes you used typing out the message to him wasn't wasted, even though he'll never see it. It's nice for us to clearly organize our own thoughts and questions and ask them, even if we don't get answers. Frankly, you probably got about the same response by the pm not going through as you would have from the guy himself.

I'm glad that you posted this and I share your sadness and frustration. Thank you for speaking out, both to him and here. According to that man, my family is an abomination.

 

[MonorailMan]

I realized there were several points made I wanted to comment on, but I'm sure if I copied/pasted all the topics and questions the server would explode due to the overuse of little yellow text boxes. So here are just a couple things.

"You won't change his mind, he won't listen to you and pause to think about what you have said, and in the end you will be angry and frustrated and he will be happy that he made you mad."

The thing that's kind of weird is I normally don't get mad at people like this. When I see them at the Pride parades I usually ingore them. (In fact, when the color guard I'm a member of passes the section of the parade route where the protesters set up, we normally stop performing, stop our music and just walk and relax. The first year I was a member I didn't understand why we were doing this.....but now I completely understand the idea behind it: Why perform for someone who will refuse to care or listen?

"From what you have posted this guy is just an idiot in general. It has nothing to do with him saying he is a Christian. If his parents raised him a satanist or an atheist or Jewish or Buddhist or a Scientologist he would still be an idiot."

If you mean "idiot" as in choosing what someone knows as well as what someone chooses not to know, then yes, I'd agree with you. David (ConcKahuna) put it very well: "The problem has always been selective hearing."

Unfortunately that can lead to idiotism. (Is that even a word? )

"The 45 minutes you used typing out the message to him wasn't wasted, even though he'll never see it. It's nice for us to clearly organize our own thoughts and questions and ask them, even if we don't get answers. Frankly, you probably got about the same response by the pm not going through as you would have from the guy himself."

You know something......you're 100% right. By getting my pm sent back to me I learned volumes about this guy without him even saying a word. It gave me proof about my theory of who he was. At first I was a little peeved (mainly because I had spent all that time typing ), but then it just kind of made me sad to know that someone would actively make the choice to secure himself inside a glass dome, where all of his information stays safe with him and only a select few who share his views are allowed in.

"Do you still think he's cute? "

You know.......thumbnail images can be very misleading.

 

[npmommie]

He started listing numerous Biblical references as to why his theory should be supported.

Fine.

I watched a few other of his videos, and noticed that every single one of his videos revolves around him being out in the world and quoting the Bible:
--In one video he stood out in a bad hail storm saying that it was God's doing and that it was only the beginning of a much worse storm that will soon be coming due to God being displeased with the sins of man. (I'm sure you can imagine some of the things he listed as sins.)
--He posted another of him watching a story on the news about how home schooling is becoming a thing of the past in Germany. He sat through the entire video not listening to what was being said on the TV, but instead quoting passages from the Bible and saying how the world is attacking Christianity and that home schooling is the best way to go because regular schools are teaching things like sex education and evolution.

As I'm sure you've figured out, in most of his videos he was very upset and displeased with the way things are going around him in the world. Even in the 1 or 2 videos I saw of him where he was happy, he was constantly quoting the Bible to his daughter, wife and yes.......even his dog.

Upon watching his video on gay people adopting I posted a comment which basically asked him why he felt it was okay to pick and choose which sins listed in the Bible are alright to overlook. I also told him that the majority of priests and pastors I have personally met have been gay. Today I discovered that he not only deleted my comment but anyone else's comments who didn't share his viewpoints, regardless of their non-judgemental tone.



I don't mean to offend anyone, but I really think I need to ask this: Is it just me, or do gay-bashers and most fundamentalist Christians talk/yell 99% more than they listen? In doing so they're not learning ANYTHING. I understand they refuse to believe in evolution......and maybe that partially explains this behavior. When you don't listen, you don't learn. If you're not learning, you're not evolving as an individual. You're stuck. If that's the case, what's the point in being alive? Picking and choosing things you want to learn seems like a very selfish and shallow act in my opinion, mainly because when this happens you're naturally going to practice segregation against certain people. Most gay and even straight people I know tend to shut up and listen to what others around them are saying. This does not, however, seem to be the case with gay-bashers and/or most fundamentalist Christians I've seen/met.

This whole ordeal really bothered and upset me quite a bit. I'm not sure if I should be really mad at this guy or if I should feel sorry for him.

He has a wife?? and he quotes the bible to her, and to the dog?
I am sorry but he sounds like the elevator is not reaching the top floor ya know?
I agree with the selective hearing that conc said. They do not listen, because to them in their world they are right and no one can tell them otherwise. Its a closed off little world. I wouldn't waste energy feeling mad or upset with this person.

When someone posts a theory on a place like Youtube and then deletes each and every opposing view, it really says something.

It says that the theory doesn't hold up to real criticism.

It shows that the author isn't really interested in discussion or learning about all sides of an issue, just the ones that support their right to hate and discriminate.

I also find it interesting that he now only accepts comments from friends- friends that must think just like he does. What a sad, narrow, and boring existence.




It's not just you.

One example I'll use is how there are people who are not allowing their children to watch the inauguration because it is inclusive to the LGBTQ community. As a matter of fact, Christian Anti-Defamation Commission recommended that Christian parents not let their children watch because the inaugural events were going to be polluted with sexual sin.

I find this so sad, so closed minded. It is just unbelievable to me that anyone can think this way.


I can't imagine closing off my children's minds ever like that.

 

[MonorailMan]

He has a wife?? and he quotes the bible to her, and to the dog?
I am sorry but he sounds like the elevator is not reaching the top floor ya know?
I agree with the selective hearing that conc said. They do not listen, because to them in their world they are right and no one can tell them otherwise. Its a closed off little world. I wouldn't waste energy feeling mad or upset with this person.

Yeah. From the couple videos I've seen her in she appears to be one of those people who normally doesn't say anything, but when she does speak it's something along the lines of "yes, sir" when her husband is speaking to her. As you said, it seems to have a lot to do with being right.....but in certain cases, including this one (as far as I can tell) it also has to do with feeling a sense of power. I'm not sure what's more disturbing-the fact that he treats his family like that, or the fact that they seem to willingly go right along with it.

 

[starrzone]

This whole ordeal really bothered and upset me quite a bit. I'm not sure if I should be really mad at this guy or if I should feel sorry for him.

To be honest, after reading your whole post, I thought both of him,

Mad, because he is making a blanket statement that is in the meantime very narrow in its scope. He is saying that the "word" of a being that may or may not exist, depending on what beliefs you hold, are the absolute truth. I will never personally disallow anyone their beliefs, as long as they don't use them to a) hurt others, b) push an agenda, or c) attempt others through physical, visual, verbal or written violence to adopt their views. I think this guy is using a combination of all of those and quite frankly it gets me really mad.

Sorry, because he is missing out on so much this world has to offer. I won't go into a sappy tangent about how many wonderful gay/bi/trans people I know (because I do) and how much this group contributes to the world, but I will say that narrow-minded people are often very unhappy. To not be like one of them, I just try and use my energies for good causes like educating people about prejudice and racism.

It's a hard topic to wrap your mind around. All I can say is that I'm for you, not against you.

 

[DVCajun]

I feel you. I'll confess to spending more time than I should have in conversation with people who have absolutely NO interest in actually hearing (i.e. listening, absorbing and considering) any other perspective than their own on the issue of the Bible and homosexuality. They think they have the whole thing figured out, and they're more than willing to tell you and anyone else with time to waste about it. These types of people are famous for quoting the Bible. Ironically, they don't have a clue as to what it actually SAYS. They're typically literalists, except when it comes to passages that may actually apply to them, such as, say, "selling everything they own and giving the proceeds to the poor."

I've stopped having conversations with individuals like that. In my experience they don't have the intellect to comprehend a word I have to say.... or that the Bible has to say.

 

[MonorailMan]

To be honest, after reading your whole post, I thought both of him,

Mad, because he is making a blanket statement that is in the meantime very narrow in its scope. He is saying that the "word" of a being that may or may not exist, depending on what beliefs you hold, are the absolute truth. I will never personally disallow anyone their beliefs, as long as they don't use them to a) hurt others, b) push an agenda, or c) attempt others through physical, visual, verbal or written violence to adopt their views. I think this guy is using a combination of all of those and quite frankly it gets me really mad.

Sorry, because he is missing out on so much this world has to offer. I won't go into a sappy tangent about how many wonderful gay/bi/trans people I know (because I do) and how much this group contributes to the world, but I will say that narrow-minded people are often very unhappy. To not be like one of them, I just try and use my energies for good causes like educating people about prejudice and racism.

It's a hard topic to wrap your mind around. All I can say is that I'm for you, not against you.

I think one of the reasons I recently started getting so upset about stuff like this is because I'm one of those people who tries to listen and understand where someone is coming from, even in an extreme situation like this, and this person would never even think about giving me a chance to tell him what I'm thinking. Someone made a post on YouTube not too long ago as a response to someone else's question which asked, "Why do we (straight people) have to constantly listen to gay people about their ways of life and their existance in the world"......and his response was, "This is the reason", as he made reference to footage of an offensive protester at the San Fransico Pride parade.

I'm going to try and find his footage so I can post the link. The protester, at first, was really offensive............and then his true colors started through: He then started not only showing that he wasn't that bright, but he also started showing how sexist he was. It really opened my eyes how people like this need to be ignored, as bad as that may sound.

I feel you. I'll confess to spending more time than I should have in conversation with people who have absolutely NO interest in actually hearing (i.e. listening, absorbing and considering) any other perspective than their own on the issue of the Bible and homosexuality. They think they have the whole thing figured out, and they're more than willing to tell you and anyone else with time to waste about it. These types of people are famous for quoting the Bible. Ironically, they don't have a clue as to what it actually SAYS. They're typically literalists, except when it comes to passages that may actually apply to them, such as, say, "selling everything they own and giving the proceeds to the poor."

I've stopped having conversations with individuals like that. In my experience they don't have the intellect to comprehend a word I have to say.... or that the Bible has to say.

There is the ocassional anti-gay person that comes along who will be extremely intelligent (as far as book knowledge goes) and those are the people that others will tend to listen to. It's those people who actually make money from the books that they write which talk about how homosexuality is evil, etc. etc. People will listen simply because of their "intellegence" and stage presence. I've seen a few of them get air time on TV late nights.


It wasn't until this post that I'm making now that I actually realized how strongly I feel about these types of things. See? The DIS is more important than you might think.

 

[soulmates]

I sooo know where your coming from. As many have already said, people like that, there is NO reasoning with them. However, some food for thought. Google, "How many times does JESUS talk about homosexuality"...guess what? ZERO! In the Old Testament, sure, but here is the kicker, you have to go deep, in Latin, Greek & Hebrew to find the REAL meaning of words like, sodomy and un-natural. You'll be surprised. Also, in the old testament, men can have a thousand wives and be stoned to death for having sex with their wives while on their cycle. Do we talk about that? Do we kill men for that? Heck no....old laws that were silly.
Sadly, there will always be people who are ignorant and because they've been TOLD what the bible says, they believe it. I was one of them, that is, till I read and studied myself and what I found was shocking.


Your okay, we're NOT going to hell. I honestly believe in the 33 years Jesus was on earth, IF being gay were the EVIL sin we all hear about, why didn't he mention it, warn us??? I'm going with the other stuff he talked about...love eachother, take care of the poor and don't be hypocrites!!

Hugs

Chris

 

[DVC~OKW~96]

Jesus didn't mention being gay, perhaps because like all good early gays he was too deep in the closet.