A question for English teachers

[TxJasmine]

Hi all,

I have a question about a problem my 4th grade DD had on one of her Language Arts tests. DH and I are both fairly good with spelling and grammar, however, neither one of us knew the correct answer. I'm hoping that someone here on the DIS can help out!

The test consisted of a list of words that needed to be made plural, singular possessive, and plural possessive. For example, one word was trolley. So the answer was: trolley, trolleys, trolley's, and trolleys'. She got that one right. The one she had problems with was 'pass'. The problem was with the singular possessive. She put: pass, passes, pass', passes'. Does anyone know what it should be? DH and I are really curious about this, because we can't figure it out!

Thanks!

 

[Maleficent13]

Not an English teacher, but I have a BA in English. I'm trying to figure out a real life instance of where you need a singular possessive of "pass". I assume as in a hall pass?

IMO, I would go with pass'. Did the teacher mark that wrong?

 

[disney4us2002]

I get a kick out of english and grammar and I was also trying to figure out a sentence to use pass as singular possessive. How about "The hall pass' writing was so faded it could barely be read."? I can't really imagine using that sentence but I can't figure out how else it would be other than pass'.

 

[phamton]

Wouldn't it be pass's? I thought of another similar word: "lass" and just applied that rule.

The lass's shoes were in her closet.
All the lasses' shoes were pink.

 

[TxJasmine]

Thanks Mal - yes, the teacher did mark pass' wrong. And I agree that it's a strange word to use with possessive. The only sentence I could come up with was:

The mountain pass____ road was covered with snow. or maybe,

The hall pass___ corner was crumpled.


I'm really just curious about this. Guess I could ask the teacher, but I don't really want to bother her with this. It just bugs me when I can't even do 4th grade work!

 

[cynsaun]

Originally posted by phamton
Wouldn't it be pass's? I thought of another similar word: "lass" and just applied that rule.

The lass's shoes were in her closet.
All the lasses' shoes were pink.

When the word ends in "s" is isn't necessary to add the 's, just add the apostrophe.

 

[cassi06403]

I'm not a teacher, but I come from a long line of them! ;-)

I would ask the teacher. Perhaps she goofed when grading the test (it does happen.)

I can't think of what it would be other than pass'.

--Cassi

 

[Maleficent13]

Originally posted by TxJasmine
Thanks Mal - yes, the teacher did mark pass' wrong. And I agree that it's a strange word to use with possessive. The only sentence I could come up with was:

The mountain pass____ road was covered with snow. or maybe,

The hall pass___ corner was crumpled.

It's very awkward to speak or write that way. It's easier and more clear to say

"The mountain pass was covered with snow." (the word road is redundant since a pass can be a road)

"The corner of the hall pass was crumpled."

Not ragging on you in any way...just saying the teacher needed to pick a better word! You really don't need a singular possessive for "pass". But I stick to my guns that it would be pass' if she absolutely wants to use it!

 

[Sirius]

I am an English teacher...

When a word ends in s, you must add 's to make it possessive unless the word is a plural.

pass = pass's
passes=passes'

The hall pass's corner was crumpled.

If we are talking about a car that belongs to James, it is James's car.

 

[phamton]

Originally posted by cynsaun
When the word ends in "s" is isn't necessary to add the 's, just add the apostrophe.

I guess that may be debatable:

2. Add an apostrophe (') or an apostrophe plus an s ('s) to
singular words ending in s.

a. Add the apostrophe plus the s to singular words of one
syllable.

Examples: my boss's schedule
the bus's tires

b. Add an apostrophe plus an s or an apostrophe only to
singular words of two syllables. Your choice depends upon
sound.

Examples: Thomas's or Thomas' dog
discus' flight or discus's flight

c. Singular words of three or more syllables use only an
apostrophe to make them possessive.

Examples: Martinkus' book
Pythagoras' theory

3. Add only an apostrophe (') to plural nouns ending in s.

Examples: goats' pasture
bridges' supports

http://rwc.hunter.cuny.edu/writing/on-line/apostrop.html

But here it says both are acceptable:

If the noun is singular and ends in "s," you may form the possessive either by adding apostrophe s or by simply adding the apostrophe.

Examples: James's novels the boss's car Dickens's heroine
James' novels the boss' car Dickens' heroine

The exceptions to this flexible rule are Jesus, Moses, and Zeus, which traditionally form the possessive with just the apostrophe:

Jesus' teaching Moses' commandments Zeus' power
http://www.ucalgary.ca/UofC/eduweb/grammar/course/punctuation/3_7.htm


I did a search on apostrophes and it seemed to be a divided issue. I was taught to add 's to words that end in s if the word is singular. It seems most sites support the adding of 's.

Edited to add: I see Sirius beat me to the post.

 

[JessetheCowgirl]

I would assume the teacher is grading according to the way SHE taught the children to form singular possessives of words ending in "s".

Does your daughter have notes on this??? Or a grammar book??

(Not that that makes the other form wrong, but it would explain it)

I went through similar scenarios as a GRADUATE student in English---(I now hold an M.A. in English)

I remember specifically two professors with different beliefs regarding when to use "which" or "that".

Long story, but basically I learned how to write "correctly" for each one independent of the other

 

[Maleficent13]

Originally posted by JessetheCowgirl
I went through similar scenarios as a GRADUATE student in English---(I now hold an M.A. in English)

I remember specifically two professors with different beliefs regarding when to use "which" or "that".

Long story, but basically I learned how to write "correctly" for each one independent of the other

I HATE my spellchecker, because everytime I use "which" it wants me to change it to "that". Of course, it wants me to talk like Yoda most of the time too.

 

[TxJasmine]

Thank you all so much for your input! I have definitely learned something today! I really didn't ask this question because of my daughter's grade (she did get a 97 ), but rather for my own benefit.

I am thrilled that DD is learned the proper use of apostrophes. I cringe every time I see apostrophes used to represent plurals. Writing correctly is very important, and I am glad to see that DD's school emphasizes the 3 Rs.

Thanks again!

 

[phamton]

Originally posted by TxJasmine
Thank you all so much for your input! I have definitely learned something today! I really didn't ask this question because of my daughter's grade (she did get a 97 ), but rather for my own benefit.

I'm glad you asked the question also because I learned something, too. When I went to school it was the rule to always add 's if the word was singular possessive (even when the word ended in s.) I was surprised to find out that either could be considered correct. It just shows that language is always evolving.

I am recently retired from teaching 3rd grade and am the first to admit that sometimes old rules die hard. So thanks for encouraging me to do a little research.

Bev

 

[tar heel]

My background is journalism and, according to the AP Style Manual, you add 's unless the next word starts with s, then you're supposed to do just aposptrophe. I've also done some academic editing and the Bible for that, The Chicago Manual of Style, agrees with the 's part but doesn't have the exception.

Now, if we could just teach all the DIS boarders to not put apostrophes in plurals . . .