A Full Go on Riviera Resort

DVC BLT

Mouseketeer
Joined
Aug 13, 2011
We currently own at BLT as it was a perfect fit when our kids were young and were comfortable in a 1BR. We now find ourselves spending more and more time in the Epcot / HS area and wanting a 2BR, and thus more points. We just returned from a trip where we stayed at BWV thinking we would love it there (using our BLT points). We spent some time over at BCV as well to see if we could settle on one of those resorts (buying resale), thinking their walking distance to 2 parks set them aside. In short, we were underwhelmed. To say these resorts are tired is an understatement. The bathrooms need full gutting. The soft goods do their best to cover what is inevitable. I guess you can only paint so many times before you need to redo the trim, walls, etc. I guess this is the life of a timeshare and eventually BLT will end up in the same spot. Perhaps our expectations for timeshares are too high? I can see us selling BLT when the condition deteriorates to this level and will buy into a newer MK DVC when the time comes…

Then we toured Rivera, which for sure I went in thinking I would hate given what I’ve read on this board (my trusted source for all things DVC). Bottom line, this board loves BWV and BCV far more than Riviera, and I made my opinion (and reservations) based on that.

I was wrong.

We took the tour and 2 other visits to the Riviera resort during the week for meals. We were blown away.

Lets start with the lobby, its impressive. For Disney – It’s a high end feel, from the furniture to the flooring and general design/layout. I didn’t like the small staircase from the ground level to the lobby, and the carpet appears worn already. This concerned us as the first thing we saw coming in from the skyliner (which we liked, more on that later). Not a reason to turn around and head back to BWV, but something that we looked at each other and just said “why?”

Restaurants – we ate at the quick service (Primo Piatto) and found it much better than Contempo Cafe at BLT. We wanted to hit Topolino’s but it didn’t fit within our schedule. We liked that you can access everything from within the resort and not needing to go outside to get food, coffee, etc.

Transportation – We rode back to Riviera on the Dedicated bus from MK just to give it a shot (after taking a Minnie van to MK from BWV). Everyone had a seat on the bus (this is the week between Xmas and New years as a reminder). We wondered if it had something to do with the resort size and having a dedicated bus or if the resort was only half filled? Not sure. We loved the skyliner. Rode it 10X or more. While any new transportation system will have its kinks in the early days, we trust that the reliability will go up. This is a gamble, but I believe its going to pay off as they learn how to optimize. Whenever you rent/buy in a new area, you always take a chance that the value will increase over time as things improve around you. This is no different, except the risk is lower at Disney. We trust that Disney will not leave the Skyliner as a mess, and if you wait for it to be running 100%, you will pay a lot more for those points, just like if you wait for an area to improve before buying in. We never waited more than 5 – 10 mins for a gondola, in its current condition which, as per the disboards, is nearly a disaster. Its way more comfortable than the monorail. With a family of 4 we rode by ourselves most of the time. The other times we had a couple join us, and of course, conversation starts which is nice. Its fast, and wind passes through it. Your comfortable. I can see it being comfortable during a hot day as well. The wind passes through similar to what you would feel on a ride/attraction on a hot day. I suppose if you had a fear of heights, its an issue, but for our family, it more than works - it’s a ride.

The villas – This is where the resort absolutely sets itself apart. Spectacular is the word. The pictures and the online tours do not do it justice. We walked through during the tour and were blown away. Our guide gave us more time to spend alone as we walked through each room really imagining how we would utilize the space. It was very well thought out. The only negative we could find was the lack of a 2nd toilet in a 1BR and a 3rd toilet in a 2BR. I guess this is something we grew fond of at BLT. With that said, they do have the 2nd shower in a 1BR and a 3rd shower in a 2BR. The kitchen is perfect and is designed consistent with how we use a kitchen on Disney property (breakfast and snacking). It has the dining room / bench area which we use quite often to just sit and relax at night with a glass of wine and the kids use for breakfast. The Murphy bed is spot on, as the pull-out couch not a good solution for a highly active Disney vacation. The bathrooms are high end for Disney, from the materials to the hardware.

In the end, it came down to villa quality, trading Skyliner for walking to Epcot & HS, and additional years on the contract. BCV and BWC had no chance. If you can afford the price per point, looking for a HS/EP DVC, it’s a slam dunk. Disney finally got it right. We added on 250pts. Just wanted to post something positive about RIV for those lurking and trusting all that you hear on disboards. Everyone is in a different financial position, and that is OK. For me, its difficult to read on here whether someone hates it because it doesn’t fit for them financially or if they are criticizing it for its own stand-alone issues. I get it and again, that’s OK.

Our 2 cents. YMMV.
 
RIV will need a fluff and puff at some point as well keep that in mind 50 years with the same paint isn't going to be enjoyable. As a RIV owner glad to be your neighbor.
 
Thank you and welcome home!

We bought in back in May as we loved the virtual tour and the discounts made it possible. As it’s our first contract I have been worried given the amount of not so positive comments.

We did a lot of research before we bought in and were aware of the pitfalls.

We have our first visit home in June.
 


Fast forward 25 years.

How do you anticipate that the Riviera will be spared the same fate as BWV/BCV; the same state of being “tired” as you describe it?

How do you reconcile the faith you put in Disney to upkeep the Skyliner when the same Walt Disney Company, Inc. has allowed its flagship monorail transportation system to fall into such disrepair?

What you’re describing as a resort slam dunk is largely characteristics that are appealing by virtue of being the newest resort.

In 25 years, Riviera’s shine too will wear off. Disney will refine the Skyliner, learning from mistakes made with the maiden system; maybe even expand the system to other resorts with newly introduced efficiencies. DVD will introduce new resorts within walking distance to other theme parks.

Perhaps Riviera will be the “tired” resort you describe BCV/BWV is today, and the newly made shiny BCV/BWV resort will painfully drive home the fact that as much as Disney sold up its now legacy Skyliner 25 years earlier, location will always be king.
 
I think there would be a lot more love on the Dis for Riviera if it wasn't for the new restrictions on resale. My plan originally was to sell my small BWV contract and replace it with a DRR contract. My rational was to extend my 2042 expiration out to 2070 while still keeping a location close to EP/HS. But I want to see how the restrictions not only affect resale value, but also see how studio bookings shake out over time. I'd be buying probably 75 point contract for 3 to 4 nights in a studio and if they are all gone within seconds of 11 months then I'd rather just keep what I have.

I think comparing the BWV/BCV to DRR is a bit unfair as far as building materials go. The style back when those were built is completely different. I personally agree that the DRR villas are vastly superior to the older BCV/BWV. Even BLT vs DRR is a tough comparison as the added initial cost per point needed to upgrade the materials would have been a tough sell during BLT selling period...which was right smack in the middle of the worst recession we had seen in years.

Either way, congrats on your purchase. I think as long as the trundle beds stay on the walls we'll see more and more positive reviews of the resort.
 
Fast forward 25 years.

How do you anticipate that the Riviera will be spared the same fate as BWV/BCV; the same state of being “tired” as you describe it?

How do you reconcile the faith you put in Disney to upkeep the Skyliner when the same Walt Disney Company, Inc. has allowed its flagship monorail transportation system to fall into such disrepair?

What you’re describing as a resort slam dunk is largely characteristics that are appealing by virtue of being the newest resort.

In 25 years, Riviera’s shine too will wear off. Disney will refine the Skyliner, learning from mistakes made with the maiden system; maybe even expand the system to other resorts with newly introduced efficiencies. DVD will introduce new resorts within walking distance to other theme parks.

Perhaps Riviera will be the “tired” resort you describe BCV/BWV is today, and the newly made shiny BCV/BWV resort will painfully drive home the fact that as much as Disney sold up its now legacy Skyliner 25 years earlier, location will always be king.

I can understand where they're coming from, though. 25 years from now their BWV or BCV deeds will have expired. Why spend the next decades at an old resort if you can stay at a beautiful new one for years to come?
Fast Forward 25 years and they might not even want to own any more or be looking at selling depending on life circumstances. In which case they will still have a product they can resell, unlike BWV / BCV, correct?
 


I can understand where they're coming from, though. 25 years from now their BWV or BCV deeds will have expired. Why spend the next decades at an old resort if you can stay at a beautiful new one for years to come?
Fast Forward 25 years and they might not even want to own any more or be looking at selling depending on life circumstances. In which case they will still have a product they can resell, unlike BWV / BCV, correct?
There is little doubt in my mind that the logical buying choice today for someone new looking to get into a Disney timeshare leans towards buying Riviera. The value proposition of BWV, and to a far greater extent BCV, just isn’t there at today’s prices, retail or resale.

But the premise in the OP’s post was not just that there is greater long term value, it was that Riviera is a superior resort option across the board. My point is that the reasons outlined are based on variables that will be impacted negatively over time.

Further, I take umbrage with two other points that DVC BLT makes.

One that “Disney finally got it right” with this resort. That the Riviera is the pinnacle Disney timeshare resort. A blanket statement like that that requires one to turn a blind eye to the resort’s shortcomings.

Two, the not-so-subtle suggestion is that the reason people take issue with the resort is primarily one of financial barriers; that “If you can afford the price per point, looking for a HS/EP DVC, it’s a slam dunk” is insulting. This position is in line with others who intimate that the reason people don’t like the Riviera is largely a case of sour grapes; because they can’t stay there on their resale contracts so of course they’ll besmirch the place out of spite.

To lavish this sort of praise on the new Disney timeshare venture and dismiss the shortcoming in order to declare the Riviera a crowning Disney achievement, ignores the direction that Disney is heading with its timeshare model; placing a deluxe property, on a non-ideal location that forces heavy reliance on mass transit, charging prices and creating point charts that challenge any timeshare value proposition, and fundamentally changing the product ecosystem for the sole purpose of getting a bigger piece of the pie.

The Riviera is a beautiful resort, arguably the nicest rooms on property. I suspect the Skyliner is indeed the way of the future and a refined Skyliner 2.0 will replace the monorail eventually. If given the choice between buying BCV/BWV and Riviera, I would buy Riviera.

But that’s not my choice. My choice is to buy Riviera or to not buy Riviera. And the choices that Disney made in creating this resort provided plenty of valid reasons why a lot of owners like myself choose not to buy here; reasons that don’t involve an inability to pay for it, or a case of sour grapes.
 
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Fast forward 25 years.

How do you anticipate that the Riviera will be spared the same fate as BWV/BCV; the same state of being “tired” as you describe it?

How do you reconcile the faith you put in Disney to upkeep the Skyliner when the same Walt Disney Company, Inc. has allowed its flagship monorail transportation system to fall into such disrepair?

What you’re describing as a resort slam dunk is largely characteristics that are appealing by virtue of being the newest resort.

In 25 years, Riviera’s shine too will wear off. Disney will refine the Skyliner, learning from mistakes made with the maiden system; maybe even expand the system to other resorts with newly introduced efficiencies. DVD will introduce new resorts within walking distance to other theme parks.

Perhaps Riviera will be the “tired” resort you describe BCV/BWV is today, and the newly made shiny BCV/BWV resort will painfully drive home the fact that as much as Disney sold up its now legacy Skyliner 25 years earlier, location will always be king.

Many good points but again, someone is looking at things now and not in 25 years, Buying a resort that ends 28 years earlier when it offers no pluses for someone doesn’t make sense,

I just don’t understand why when someone comes on here and shares their personal assessment of why they chose RIV over BWV or BCV...or that is the best resort ever..that it has to be immediately criticzed.

I have said many times, BCV and BWVs location is only “king” as you put it if one can take advantage of the ability to walk. If one cant or doesn’t see that as a popular thing, then it comes down to everything else,

I own both and just stayed at BCV with a friend and we both needed ECVs. RIV offers a lot to some and while of course, the resort will show wear and tear in 25 years, it doesn’t now, which when buying 250 points is a big deal,

Everything shared by OP still comes down to sharing an opinion, which reading anything more into the post than that is silly, IMO.
 
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By all accounts it’s a beautiful resort, and I’d strongly consider adding on there, except for the resale restrictions.

I can’t look past the overt intent of DVC to devalue the purchase to that of a typical timeshare.

I bought my Wyndham points resale for pennies on the dollar. I would never have considered buying a timeshare direct until I did at Poly. And the prime consideration for buying it direct is that I wouldn’t someday be selling it on eBay for pennies on the dollar. Maybe that’s not the actual outcome of these changes, but it’s certainly DVC’s intention to make my purchase retain as little resale value as they can force out of it.
 
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I too am unclear on how RIviera, as a timeshare property likely to run at 99% occupancy rates, will somehow avoid the wear and tear seen at every other DVC property. I am unclear where/how Disney have said RIviera will be on a faster refurbishment schedule than any other property (DVC or non!) that they own.

If you want a HS/EP resort with a long contract, just own that, but don't delude yourself that anything but the four walls isn't subject to wear, tear and even change.
 
I too am unclear on how RIviera, as a timeshare property likely to run at 99% occupancy rates, will somehow avoid the wear and tear seen at every other DVC property. I am unclear where/how Disney have said RIviera will be on a faster refurbishment schedule than any other property (DVC or non!) that they own.

If you want a HS/EP resort with a long contract, just own that, but don't delude yourself that anything but the four walls isn't subject to wear, tear and even change.

I think that was simply a personal assessment, not an unrealistic expectation, as it was even noted they expect that to happen with an example about BLT.
 
I just don’t understand why when someone comes on here and shares their personal assessment of why they chose RIV over BWV or BCV, that it has to be immediately criticzed.
I have no issue with people being happy/excited about their Riviera purchase. I was close to being one of those people for a lot of the same reasons; beautiful resort, 50 year value proposition, 2042, wife, etc., but when posters talk about how Riviera is a great purchase because other timeshare resort properties are worn down, or the idea that Riviera is in fact a better, future-proofed location than BWV/BCV, or the way you’ve spent pages upon pages with all sorts of financial gymnastics to argue that Riviera is comparably priced to BWV, I start to get the sense that ownership is coloring subjectivity.

And when there are biased perspectives in any direction, whether it’s a starry-eyed Riviera owner or an incensed anti-resale-restriction owner, we should all hope there will be dissenting voices that will provide some measure of balance to that.
 
I have said many times, BCV and BWVs location is only “king” as you put it if one can take advantage of the ability to walk. If one cant or doesn’t see that as a popular thing, then it comes down to everything else,
Different strokes for different folks, I have no problems with people who prefer Riviera.

But the ability to walk and not be reliant on Disney transportation is "king". There are people who believe otherwise, but they are the exception, not the rule.

Objectively speaking, the value of BCV & BWV would drop precipitously if they were in a location akin to OKW and required a bus to get anywhere.

Sure, "if" you don't value walkability, then there's a lot less value to BCV & BWV. I'm just saying that's an enormous "IF", and I would hazard a conservative guess that less than 3% of guests would rather rely on Disney transport at a busy time than a 5, 10, or 20 minute walk to Epcot or DHS (depending on were they are staying).
 
Different strokes for different folks, I have no problems with people who prefer Riviera.

But the ability to walk and not be reliant on Disney transportation is "king". There are people who believe otherwise, but they are the exception, not the rule.

Objectively speaking, the value of BCV & BWV would drop precipitously if they were in a location akin to OKW and required a bus to get anywhere.

Sure, "if" you don't value walkability, then there's a lot less value to BCV & BWV. I'm just saying that's an enormous "IF", and I would hazard a conservative guess that less than 3% of guests would rather rely on Disney transport at a busy time than a 5, 10, or 20 minute walk to Epcot or DHS (depending on were they are staying).

Could be true, but it’s still an opinion and not a fact. I am one who always loved being able to walk to parks and saw it as a big plus. But now that my Last few times have not allowed me to take advantage of it, due to my own health or that of my guests, those resorts lost their biggest value.
 
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I have no issue with people being happy/excited about their Riviera purchase. I was close to being one of those people for a lot of the same reasons; beautiful resort, 50 year value proposition, 2042, wife, etc., but when posters talk about how Riviera is a great purchase because other timeshare resort properties are worn down, or the idea that Riviera is in fact a better, future-proofed location than BWV/BCV, or the way you’ve spent pages upon pages with all sorts of financial gymnastics to argue that Riviera is comparably priced to BWV, I start to get the sense that ownership is coloring subjectivity.

And when there are biased perspectives in any direction, whether it’s a starry-eyed Riviera owner or an incensed anti-resale-restriction owner, we should all hope there will be dissenting voices that will provide some measure of balance to that.

I absolutely agree that those opposite side of coin information should be presented to posters who are in the decision stage because every resort will have pros and cons,

Just do not think it’s necessary when someone is simply sharing what made them buy, especially when it comes to RIVera over BCV/BWV.

People choosing RIV seem to get a lot more negative feedback than I notice for other resorts. YMMV
 
I absolutely agree that those opposite side of coin information should be presented to posters who are in the decision stage because every resort will have pros and cons,

Just do not think it’s necessary when someone is simply sharing what made them buy, especially when it comes to RIVera over BCV/BWV.

People choosing RIV seem to get a lot more negative feedback than I notice for other resorts. YMMV
But the OP is not the only consumer of this exchange. There are those who are still on the fence about ownership, those who just bought direct and are researching with buyers remorse, those who are trying to weigh the pros and cons of ownership at all.

To those people, there is value to these conversations. If this were in the Mousecellaneous forum about someone celebrating their purchase? Sure, “Welcome home.” But in the purchasing forum, this thread goes beyond the OP’s celebratory intent, if that’s how you choose to see it, it becomes a resource for information/opinion to a potential purchaser, and seeing it as such is not ”silly.”
 
Fast forward 25 years.

How do you anticipate that the Riviera will be spared the same fate as BWV/BCV; the same state of being “tired” as you describe it?

How do you reconcile the faith you put in Disney to upkeep the Skyliner when the same Walt Disney Company, Inc. has allowed its flagship monorail transportation system to fall into such disrepair?

What you’re describing as a resort slam dunk is largely characteristics that are appealing by virtue of being the newest resort.

In 25 years, Riviera’s shine too will wear off. Disney will refine the Skyliner, learning from mistakes made with the maiden system; maybe even expand the system to other resorts with newly introduced efficiencies. DVD will introduce new resorts within walking distance to other theme parks.

Perhaps Riviera will be the “tired” resort you describe BCV/BWV is today, and the newly made shiny BCV/BWV resort will painfully drive home the fact that as much as Disney sold up its now legacy Skyliner 25 years earlier, location will always be king.

In 25 years, BWV/BCV 2.0 will be coming online (assuming we are not all underwater), and they'll have point charts and buy in costs that will reflect their new status. While it's true that a lot of the Riviera-lovers are in love with the newness of the resort, there are a few resort- and room- specific touches that are design-based and not just new paint/carpet related (although the new paint/carpet are nice). For one, I think (hope) that the murphy beds are the wave of the future. They are SO much more comfortable than the sofa beds. Whatever issues they were having with them seem to have been cleared up at RIV, although SSR still seems to be having issues.

The MK monorails opened in 1971 - that's almost 50 years ago. The other thing is that gondolas have been in use in urban areas around the world and in ski resorts for many many years too, whereas monorails are a lot less common. I've seen the updating at ski resort gondolas and I think it is possible to keep those running smoothly for a longer period of time. My kids would love to just ride the skyliner over and over again.

But the premise in the OP’s post was not just that there is greater long term value, it was that Riviera is a superior resort option across the board. My point is that the reasons outlined are based on variables that will be impacted negatively over time.

There are some things that I believe are superior, that are design-based rather than just "new materials." Here's just a few off the top of my head (some I've described in other posts):

1. Having 2 banks of elevators - one for each wing, a little way off from the lobby. Most of the public areas on 1 and 2, so this helps keep the casual guests using the stairs and also splits up the population using the elevators. Similar to the 2 banks at BLT, compare to the single bank right off the lobby at Contemporary that everyone with a stroller needs to use. At the Contemporary we usually have to wait for a few elevators before we can get on to the elevator with a stroller or a scooter. You can get to either pool without having to walk through the lobby (I'm looking at you, BCV).

2. One wing is more convenient to the Skyliner, one is more convenient to the feature pool and restaurants and "backyard." Again, you can choose based on which matters more to you, and arguably families with kids might choose to be closer to the pools while the F&W and festivals crowds might prefer to be closer to the Skyliner.

3. The "backyard" is gorgeous and laid out very well. The way the resort is laid out, it invites guests to walk around and spend time there, there's a bocce ball court and lots of seating where you can eat outside after getting your Primo Piatto order, or just hang out and enjoy the view.

4. The non-feature pool is long enough for real laps. Other than the Swolphin lap pools, this is the only place I'm aware where you can swim laps on Disney property.

5. You can access all the restaurants, skyliner and bus without being in the rain.

6. Having the front entrance on 2 and the backyard entrance on 1 - also tends to split the crowds. It's ok that the lobby is on the small side because most of the time you aren't going through the lobby if you're staying there. People coming in from cars and buses will enter on 2, people coming in from the skyliner will enter on 1 - and there are multiple doors to enter on 1, depending on whether you're going to your room or a restaurant.

7. In the rooms - the murphy beds. So much more comfortable. And the murphy in the 1BR LR is a curved couch, AND there's chairs, so there's still seating in the living room even when the bed is down. On either side of the murphy bed when you pull it down, there's little cubbies and shelves where you can plug in your devices, keep a glass of water, put your glasses and a book, etc.

8. More storage. We were at VGF in a 1br before moving to RIV and although the hallways are a little narrower, there is a real coat closet in the hall where the vacuum, high chair and pack and play sit, and we kept our owner's locker in there. The VGF mbr had a walk in closet, and the RIV mbr closet is smaller, but it has shelves, which I found very useful. Ditto with the bathrooms and the kitchen - shelves galore. There's a row of hooks for coats and ponchos when you first walk in, and a small shelf where we kept our magicbands. There's space under the bed to stick empty suitcases. There's more storage in the dresser.

9. Not sure this will be done on a soft goods refurb in other resorts, and surely in 10 years this will seem dated as well, but the smart TVs have a few Disney shows and movies on demand, and you can screen cast Disney+ from your phone or ipad. You can screen cast any chrome-enabled (?) app, which for us is Disney+. We have a smart TV from 2011 at home, and we can't even do this so easily.
 
But the OP is not the only consumer of this exchange. There are those who are still on the fence about ownership, those who just bought direct and are researching with buyers remorse, those who are trying to weigh the pros and cons of ownership at all.

To those people, there is value to these conversations. If this were in the Mousecellaneous forum about someone celebrating their purchase? Sure, “Welcome home.” But in the purchasing forum, this thread goes beyond the OP’s celebratory intent, it is a resource for information/opinion to a potential purchaser, and seeing it as such is not ”silly.”

Well, I guess I see your post differently so we can agree to disagree. It didn’t come across as informative for other buyers, but rather as proving each point the OP made as wrong,,
 
To the OP: Congratulations and welcome home! We also own at BLT and VGF, and had actually tried to buy both/either BCV and BWV resale in the past. We did spend a good amount of time our last few days on the boardwalk, enjoying the atmosphere. Like Sandisw, we much prefer walking and are thrilled we will soon be able to do it from BLT *and* VGF. Although the Skyliner was down a few times during our stay, we did use it quite a bit and on balance I think it's a fair trade for not being able to walk - I wouldn't say one is better than the other, because the Skyliner is like another ride when you're on it - my kids LOVE it, and it's certainly preferable over walking in a downpour, which I have also done. So, trying to be as objective as possible, I think that transportation is a wash for us because there are benefits to the Skyliner that make it actually enjoyable.
 

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