655,000 Dead

[MAKmom]

CNN is reporting this the link is on page 1.

 

[Fitswimmer]

I believe that every death of another human being somehow diminishes us all. However, I do understand that in war, there will be death and some of those deaths will be of innocents. The question comes in as to whether the deaths of these soldiers and innocents will lead to a positive outcome in Iraq. April was one of, if not the worst month in terms of sectarian violence since the war began. This AFTER the President's planned surge began.

I want a plan. Some kind of plan that sets reasonable goals for the Iraqi government and a plan for our gradual withdrawal of our troops. We can't stay there forever and it seems to me that we cannot solve the problems militarily.

 

[PaulaSB12]

How about a plan that doesn't destroy the lifes of women in Iraq, rape is on the increase with the "honour killing" of the victims for a start of


http://www.madre.org/sister/Iraq.html

http://youthink.worldbank.org/issues/gender/women_dev_iraq.php
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article717570.ece
http://www.vday.org/contents/vcampaigns/spotlight/iraq/owfi
Further, the political systems set up by the US administration have given authority to conservative forces who will become the majority of the Iraqi Interim National Assemly (the new parliament), which have actually lead to the abolition of important previously achieved advancements in the field of women’s rights in Iraq. Since the 1950’s, Iraqi women’s movements have worked to reduce the influence of religion over their lives. They have struggled to amend the civil law in ways to improve women’s lives. While they succeeded in forcing partial legislative reform, in the eighties and nineties Sadam Hussein’s Baath regime made sure that these gains were gradually revoked. Until the new millennium, the constitution was based on religion in personal status law and very oppressive to women. The best example is article 409-111 in the civil law that allows males to kill any female in the family based on the mere prospect that she has shamed the family’s honour through forms of sexual relations, even if that included rape. The current temporary constitution (approved by the Coalition Provisional Authorities, CPA) has not improved the family law in the favour of women. It indicates that Islamic Shari’a is the main source of legislation. And while equality is mentioned, the temporary constitution emphasizes that it is primarily based on religious law (Shari’a) which views women as inferior to men. For example, under Shari’a law one man equals four women in marriage, one man equals two women in inheritance, and men are responsible for any decision making regarding women’s education, work and life.

 

[Charade]

I have a real difficult time believing that number is anywhere near accurate. Even www.iraqibodycount.com has it about 1/10 of that. If you consider most of the deaths occur in the relatively isolated "hot spots", the "math" to get to that number since we've been there (2003) means that there have been 450 or so deaths every single day since 2003. If I recall correctly, the sectarian violence didn't get started until about 2 years ago.

 

[yeartolate]

I have a tough time believing those numbers as well.I question the sources. But what ever the number is- it is too many.

But then again, I have trouble believing alot of the numbers out there.

 

[JunieJay]

I have a tough time believing those numbers as well.I question the sources. But what ever the number is- it is too many.

But then again, I have trouble believing alot of the numbers out there.

I stopped believing after we found out there were no weapons of mass destruction after all.

 

[JunieJay]

I believe that every death of another human being somehow diminishes us all. However, I do understand that in war, there will be death and some of those deaths will be of innocents. The question comes in as to whether the deaths of these soldiers and innocents will lead to a positive outcome in Iraq. April was one of, if not the worst month in terms of sectarian violence since the war began. This AFTER the President's planned surge began.

I want a plan. Some kind of plan that sets reasonable goals for the Iraqi government and a plan for our gradual withdrawal of our troops. We can't stay there forever and it seems to me that we cannot solve the problems militarily.

You'd think this would not be unreasonable. This is not an unreasonable point of view. How anyone can feel differently is beyond me, quite frankly.

 

[pyrxtc]

I don't know about the total but I do know that it is crazy over there. E-mail from my DSister says some horrible things

"my patient the past two days was a two year old little boy.. terrorists attacked a play ground or van they were in.. something like that.. so four kids injured.. two killed.. very sad.. we received three of the kids in the ICU... it turned into a pediatric ward overnight.. good thing is they are all doing very well.. i spoiled my man because i held him all day.. only way he would stop crying for his mom.. and now he absolutely loves me.. cries whenever im not there.. lol... i actually transferred him to the intermediate care ward.. because he is much better and able to walk.. etc.. and he fell trying to run after me when i left.. poor little guy.."

now if we can't find some way to stop that then we are doing something wrong!!

 

[kydisneyfans]

It's sad when you need a website called iraqibodycount.com

 

[Papa Deuce]

What WOULD you believe? What source? What number? What number is acceptable to you?


It's just disgusting that people will totally ignore this issue as political. These are human lives.

I believe less than 100,000. And who said they are ignored? Was sucks, but we're in one. Casulaties happen.

Really don't you have anything better to do on DIS that get PO'd at me all the time?.....

 

[dcentity2000]

The number is unconfirmed and an extreme.

However, Downing Street has been told NOT to dismiss it as it seems to carry weight.



Rich::

 

[toto2]

Regardless of the body count (wich we can asume is very high , even if it is not 665 000 people. Lets pretend it is half of it). When no WMD were found , the reason for invasion was changed to "we liberated Irakis from Saddam". Would 332 500 people would have died at the hands of Sadam ?

Is is better to live under a corrupt regime , but have food , and electricity and not be afraid to go in the streets , or live "free" with infrastuctured destructed , terrosist attack daily , sectarian violence. I am just asking...

 

[LakeAriel]

I have a real difficult time believing that number is anywhere near accurate. Even www.iraqibodycount.com has it about 1/10 of that. If you consider most of the deaths occur in the relatively isolated "hot spots", the "math" to get to that number since we've been there (2003) means that there have been 450 or so deaths every single day since 2003. If I recall correctly, the sectarian violence didn't get started until about 2 years ago.

Sectarian violence? How about "shock and awe" violence? How many do you think we killed with bombs?

Target Iraq >


800 missiles to hit Iraq in first 48 hours
By Andrew West and agencies
January 26 2003
The Sun-Herald


The US intends to shatter Iraq "physically, emotionally and psychologically" by raining down on its people as many as 800 cruise missiles in two days.

The Pentagon battle plan aims not only to crush Iraqi troops, but also wipe out power and water supplies in the capital, Baghdad.

It is based on a strategy known as "Shock and Awe", conceived at the National Defense University in Washington, in which between 300 and 400 cruise missiles would fall on Iraq each day for two consecutive days. It would be more than twice the number of missiles launched during the entire 40 days of the 1991 GulfWar.

"There will not be a safe place in Baghdad," a Pentagon official told America's CBS News after a briefing on the plan. "The sheer size of this has never been seen before, never been contemplated before."

The plan has emerged just as American diplomats at the United Nations hinted that the US Administration might be willing to give UN weapons inspectors another month to complete their task.

Chief inspector Hans Blix is due to report back to the UN on Tuesday.

President George Bush has been displaying increasing impatience with the pace of inspections and is eager to start the bombing. But according to UN sources he has resigned himself to the fact that the US lacks enough votes on the Security Council to wage a military campaign.

 

[Goofyluver]

I just want a timeline...regardless if the number is high...lives have been lost needlessly. When is it going to end???

Think back to 4 years ago...when our President said "Mission Accomplished"!! What exactly have we accomplished?? Our original mission was to find the WMDs...well, there were none...what mission have we accomplished??

 

[yeartolate]

I just want a timeline...regardless if the number is high...lives have been lost needlessly. When is it going to end???

Think back to 4 years ago...when our President said "Mission Accomplished"!! What exactly have we accomplished?? Our original mission was to find the WMDs...well, there were none...what mission have we accomplished??

Lots of contractors making lots of money. Kinda gives you warm fuzzies. It is the American Dream.

 

[Fitswimmer]

I just want a timeline...regardless if the number is high...lives have been lost needlessly. When is it going to end???

Think back to 4 years ago...when our President said "Mission Accomplished"!! What exactly have we accomplished?? Our original mission was to find the WMDs...well, there were none...what mission have we accomplished??

If our mission was to remove Saddam, we did that. I have no problem with him being gone, he was a brutal dictator. But he's gone now, there is a government set up and we shouldn't be staying around there forever!!

 

[Goofyluver]

If our mission was to remove Saddam, we did that. I have no problem with him being gone, he was a brutal dictator. But he's gone now, there is a government set up and we shouldn't be staying around there forever!!

I agree that Saddam being gone was part of "the" mission...but it wasn't the "original" mission...and you are right...can't be there forever! But...after the veto yesterday...it seems like there is NO timeline...maybe we will be there forever!

 

[mking624]

I'm highly doubting that over half a million people have been killed. Have people been killed? Yes. THAT many? Oh come on...people can't be that naive to believe that over half a million people have been killed and it's all the fault of the U.S. Sure.

But there's over 26,000,000 alive and no longer under the threat of tyrannical leader. But those numbers never matter...those aren't the numbers that get the headlines. People would MUCH rather focus on some sensational negative newsline so they can find yet another reason to stay mad at everything.

 

[FloridaMom]

9/11 by the Numbers

The initial numbers are indelible: 8:46 a.m. and 9:02 a.m. Time the burning towers stood: 56 minutes and 102 minutes. Time they took to fall: 12 seconds. From there, they ripple out.

Total number killed in attacks (official figure as of 9/5/02): 2,819
Number of firefighters and paramedics killed: 343
Number of NYPD officers: 23
Number of Port Authority police officers: 37
Number of WTC companies that lost people: 60
Number of employees who died in Tower One: 1,402
Number of employees who died in Tower Two: 614
Number of employees lost at Cantor Fitzgerald: 658
Number of U.S. troops killed in Operation Enduring Freedom: 22
Number of nations whose citizens were killed in attacks: 115
Ratio of men to women who died: 3:1
Age of the greatest number who died: between 35 and 39
Bodies found "intact": 289
Body parts found: 19,858
Number of families who got no remains: 1,717
Estimated units of blood donated to the New York Blood Center: 36,000
Total units of donated blood actually used: 258
Number of people who lost a spouse or partner in the attacks: 1,609
Estimated number of children who lost a parent: 3,051
Percentage of Americans who knew someone hurt or killed in the attacks: 20
FDNY retirements, January–July 2001: 274
FDNY retirements, January–July 2002: 661
Number of firefighters on leave for respiratory problems by January 2002: 300
Number of funerals attended by Rudy Giuliani in 2001: 200
Number of FDNY vehicles destroyed: 98
Tons of debris removed from site: 1,506,124
Days fires continued to burn after the attack: 99
Jobs lost in New York owing to the attacks: 146,100
Days the New York Stock Exchange was closed: 6
Point drop in the Dow Jones industrial average when the NYSE reopened: 684.81
Days after 9/11 that the U.S. began bombing Afghanistan: 26
Total number of hate crimes reported to the Council on American-Islamic Relations nationwide since 9/11: 1,714
Economic loss to New York in month following the attacks: $105 billion
Estimated cost of cleanup: $600 million
Total FEMA money spent on the emergency: $970 million
Estimated amount donated to 9/11 charities: $1.4 billion
Estimated amount of insurance paid worldwide related to 9/11: $40.2 billion
Estimated amount of money needed to overhaul lower-Manhattan subways: $7.5 billion
Amount of money recently granted by U.S. government to overhaul lower-Manhattan subways: $4.55 billion
Estimated amount of money raised for funds dedicated to NYPD and FDNY families: $500 million
Percentage of total charity money raised going to FDNY and NYPD families: 25
Average benefit already received by each FDNY and NYPD widow: $1 million
Percentage increase in law-school applications from 2001 to 2002: 17.9
Percentage increase in Peace Corps applications from 2001 to 2002: 40
Percentage increase in CIA applications from 2001 to 2002: 50
Number of songs Clear Channel Radio considered "inappropriate" to play after 9/11: 150
Number of mentions of 9/11 at the Oscars: 26
Apartments in lower Manhattan eligible for asbestos cleanup: 30,000
Number of apartments whose residents have requested cleanup and testing: 4,110
Number of Americans who changed their 2001 holiday-travel plans from plane to train or car: 1.4 million
Estimated number of New Yorkers suffering from post-traumatic-stress disorder as a result of 9/11: 422,000

And on to Saddam and Iraq:
http://www.c-span.org/resources/pdf/hrdossier.pdf

If all we accomplished with this war was to remove Saddam Hussein then it was worth it. And if anyone thinks that we are the only ones responsible for the casualties of this war they are wrong, they are still killing their own people, just like Saddam did....

I also wish that this war would end, especially when I see all the 18 year old soldiers who are there... they are still kids and fighting for this country.... and I want them home just as much as anyone, but we cannot leave now and show weakness to these countries who will ony get more bold and attack us at home again....

 

[mking624]

Regardless of the body count (wich we can asume is very high , even if it is not 665 000 people. Lets pretend it is half of it). When no WMD were found , the reason for invasion was changed to "we liberated Irakis from Saddam". Would 332 500 people would have died at the hands of Sadam ?

Not that Saddam's "secret police" ever kept detailed records on the numbers of people that have "mysteriously" disappeared at their hands (and at Saddam's orders), but accounts collected by Western human rights groups estimated that the number is at least 200,000 people. That is not including the war that Saddam launched against Iran...which Iraq said their toll was around 500,000 people.

So would that many die at the hands of Saddam? Well, yes...they already have.